Teaching "logic" to the test!

Why teach logic if the test at the end has exactly the same questions as were answered in the classroom?
For instance: If A=B and C=B then A=C.

That was what was taught.

The test question: If you know the value of C, would you also know the value of A and B?

Like, you know, that's awesome, isn't it?
Yeah, well look, will you? Shout it out for me--don't confuse me or I'll call you out on it!

Another might be:
Memorial Day is for A. remembering dead veterans. B. Having Mattress Sales.
C. Going on a Holiday. D. All of the above.

Hey, like, what is so awesome there? You know.

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River's picture
Submitted by River on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 3:04pm.

Nobody said the test should have the "exact same questions". I was trying to explain that the test questions should be similar to questions the kids have already seen and practiced on. If there is a mismatch between the content and the TYPE of questions they practice on versus the content and TYPE of questions on the test, then they will score poorly. I think that's pretty obvious, and I also think you are being deliberately dense on this topic. There's a time and place for teaching creative problem solving, but not by surprising kids with unexpected test questions in a CRCT exam. That was not the intent in this case, it was (in my opinion) the result of implementing a new curriculum. Nothing is perfect the first time around. I'm sure they will learn from this year's results and make it better for next year.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 4:04pm.

You know $age created 4 blogs today hoping that someone will respond to at least one of them. Kind of like fishing with four poles. Smiling
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


River's picture
Submitted by River on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 5:01pm.

Sage set out his trot line, and I was the dumb carp that took the bait. Shame on me!!

Sometimes my mother plays the same game. She asks an innocent-sounding question, and I give a straight answer. Then she asks a series of follow-on questions that lead me into endless explanations of what was originally a straightforward issue. I guess she just wants to extend the conversation. Anyway, when I've had enough, I've learned to say "Mom, I have no idea. I don't know anything about that."

Sage, I really have no idea why they designed the CRCT test like that.


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 6:41pm.

Has either of you ever heard of "brainstorming?"
It brings out all of the possible problems with most any common occurrence for resolution.
Nothing is hidden, nothing is tricky, just pure honesty.
It does solve problems.
Politicians and school officials apparently hate it!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 6:44pm.

on a blog, yeah right. How's that cheap red wine that you're drinking? Smiling
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 5:10pm.

That's OK. It looks like it has been a slow day.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 4:20pm.

I wouldn't want to strain your eyes!

I am unconcerned about "responses" as you say.
You can read em or not! I don't want to argue about them anyway, but I will explain to those needing explanation!

carbonunit52's picture
Submitted by carbonunit52 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 4:37pm.

It's the sport mate, not the catch! Sometimes you only catch the equivalant of an carbonunit52 fish but it's the thrill that counts!


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 3:47pm.

If a new curriculum was implemented, why would the test have been on different subjects? Did the schools NOT teach the new curriculum?

This is school, not a technical institution! I thought we should be teaching kids how to think, not how to make a printed circuit board!

Anyway, who set the passing number? And, how come so many actually passed the test?

I think we have some unprepared students--no, a lot of unprepared students--and that is the real problem. If we soon don't admit that and make radical changes early, it will only get worse.

yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 3:58pm.

I am sure you both saw what was considered a "passing score" on these (math and social studies) tests. I believe that the grades were 31/60 for math and 32/60 for social studies, or vice versa. So now, as further evidence of the mediocrity of the entire system...to pass you only have to know HALF of what they asked. What happened to 70%? Keep the faith.

Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 4:16pm.

Actually tests should be difficult so that those who are gifted or study a lot can excel on the scores. The SAT is a good example of that.

There is absolutely a mindset apparently that number or letter grades are all that there is!

If 100 out of 100 said that the answer to : Jack and Jill went up the ____, was "hill." what would that mean? Nothing much.

I always thought a "C" was a pretty good grade, and I got a "whew" for a "D" in creative literature!
Ever see Bush's grades? McCain was about 1000 out of 999 at Annapolis, wasn't he? Winston Churchill would have been put to cleaning stables had he not been in the upper class!

We all seem to like to be judged by the same rules and for sure we want to see the comparison numbers! It is like being rich--just how rich we want to know!

yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sun, 05/25/2008 - 6:31pm.

but tests like the SAT have questions of varying difficulty levels, as do many such tests. The purpose is to determine the student's level of achievement. That makes the test as much a diagnostic tool as a summative evaluation. I am not sure I agree philosophically with the CRCT, though I know why they are given. It seems to me that "back in the day", when teachers were the sole judge of whether a child should be promoted or not, achievement levels were much higher than today. Should we get into a cause and effect discussion here? Probably not, but things were certainly different then and the results, arguably, were better. Keep the faith.

Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


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