School budget picture ‘bleak’

Tue, 05/20/2008 - 4:35pm
By: Ben Nelms

Supt. DeCotis in budget hearings with school board: Will taxes have to be raised?

Fayette County School Board members will soon begin deliberations on the 2008-2009 budget that takes effect July 1.

Portions of a preliminary budget review were discussed in brief Monday night, though board members said the undoubtedly lengthy discussion would be better held at a budget workshop now scheduled for June 2.

Front and center in that discussion will be budget needs and potential cuts in expenditures needed to offset a weakening local economy and increasing costs.

The suggested FY 2008-2009 preliminary budget review provided by Comptroller Laura Brock showed initial proposed cuts of $527,000, though additional cuts will likely follow.

“The budget picture is kind of bleak for us and private industry,” said Superintendent John DeCotis. “We will try to come up with a budget that will not impact the classroom.”

Figures showed that total receipts from all funding sources for FY 2008-2009 under the preliminary budget review are estimated to generate $193,186,231 at the current 18.596 millage rate, compared to adjusted proposed expenditures for FY 2008-2009 of $196,789,934, a difference of $3.6 million.

The problem is with revenues, Brock said. Those problems include items such as decreased tax collections and a reduction in interest rates.

Not without consequence is the slow economic growth anticipated at 2.61 percent for the year and the loss of students that generates income.

“In a tight year where you lose students and have a weak housing market, you have to find places to cut,” DeCotis said. “It’s going to be difficult to continue to provide services people are accustomed to. It will be tight for a couple of years.”

The expenditure side of the budget is also not without its problems. Affecting the budget during the current school year and perhaps even more next year will be the cost of energy, mainly fuel to run schoolbuses.

The 2008-2009 budget carried those costs at $763,000, though in recent weeks Brock told board members that figure could reach $1 million by the end of the fiscal year on June 30.

The suggested 2008-2009 budget proposes a $1.2 million allotment for energy, a 57.27 percent increase over the previous year.

DeCotis told board members areas being primed for cuts included the reduction of 34.5 positions by attrition, reducing overtime costs, the potential for reconfiguring bus routes, reducing the number of summer employees and having a summer schedule that consists of a four-day work week.

Personnel, said DeCotis, accounts for 88 percent of the budget. The repurposing of East Fayette Elementary will also amount to a $1 million savings, he said.

In terms of how the budget affects the millage rate, Brock provided board members with information showing that even with more than $525,000 in adjusted expenditures and total adjusted expenditures of $196,789,934, the millage rate would have to increase to 19.35 mills, an increase of .754 mills, to generate sufficient revenue to come close to covering current preliminary expenses. The expense figure will likely change during the budget workshop.

The potential also exists for an increase in the bond millage rate. Slow economic growth and the current debt service may require a .6 mill increase to cover the shortfall.

The amortization schedule shows $20.710 million in FY 2008-2009 but with collections of $17.311 at the current 3.55 mill bond rate. Making good on the $20.710 million would require additional tax collections of $2.899 million, or .6 mills.

The bond debt service will see a dramatic decrease within the next two years, when the figure drops to $12.673 million in FY 2010-2011 then continues a steady decrease through 2027.

The June 2 budget workshop will be followed by additional budget talks, if needed, at the June 16 monthly meeting and a June 23 called meeting for a vote in time to have the budget approved prior to the June 30 deadline.

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Submitted by Brooks Parent on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 9:52pm.

Bit dog does howl!!!

Submitted by tc on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 9:31pm.

Let's not kid ourselves. The reason that Bennett's Mill kids are doing so well is that many of the top performing kids were pulled from the other schools to ensure that BMMS would be a "success." Look at the school site council reports on the older schools from last year to this year, particularly at Booth, and you will see that this is true. Having said this, it is also important to note that the the administrators and staff at the new school have done an admirable job considering the situation. The deck has been stacked, and the public is literally paying for it. The FCBOE missed the mark by 150 students to get full funding. The school was opened too soon, in the wrong location and the district administrators are now getting ready to open yet another school when all the indicators for years have shown that our student population is declining. The per pupil costs go down significantly with fewer schools. With the rising cost of gas, transporting students to schools out in the middle of fields is just unacceptable. This is just another example of the poor planning skills of the district administration.

Submitted by doi-it-to-me-on... on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 7:50am.

Hers a way to save money. Close down Bennett’s Mill. At 500 studtents and declining enrollment, you have the same amount of administration as Booth. All can be found wandering around aimlessly looking for something to do. Work out the savings there and you won’t have to stick it to the tax payers who are already paying property taxes higher than their homes are worth. Everyone email Decotis and ask the for the running costs of that school and divide it my the number of students. You will be blown away.

jingle's picture
Submitted by jingle on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:12am.

You have got to be kidding! Bennett's Mill is awesomely staffed and has produced an oustanding 1st year. Anyone with sense would understand that a higher ratio of staff per student yields excellence for learning. It is obvious since you mentioned Booth, that you are still a disgruntled parent that had to move. GET OVER IT and realize what is best for the kids. This is a chance of a lifetime to have this type of ratio. If you want 2nd rate schools move to a different county!

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:32am.

First, I sure don't think Bennett's Mill should be closed, but the idea that the reason for its success is the staff-pupil ratio really doesn't give credit to the success taking place. It's also a disservice to the teachers/staff/students/parents.

Somewhere along the way a theory was created that lower teacher-pupil ratios equals better education. That has NOT been proven. It's yet another theory that somehow became accepted as a "fact" without actual evidence. Some students in fact do learn better when in that setting. Others do worse. Others it doesn't matter. The theory is another "one size fits all" that lacks real, tangible evidence of working. It's too bad it doesn't because it would make the solution to declining public schools real simple: just build more schools and hire more staff. It would cost more, but the results would be much better. Nice theory and all, but yet another lesson that throwing loads of money at a problem is not a solution.

To say that "anyone with sense" knows that a higher ratio is better doesn't have much desire to research and is ignorant on the issue.

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:51am.

Nuk, you are partially correct. Lower student-teacher ratios have not been proven to increase performance, but lower class size HAS. ("lower teacher-student ratio" is defined as nymber of students divided by total number of salaried professsionals..principal, counselors, teachers, special ed, etc).

A number of longitudinal studies have shown that lower class sizes (less than 16 students), particularly in grades K-3, have an enormous positive impact on future school performance for students. Google "Tennessee STAR program" for example.

NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 9:25am.

I'd somewhat agree. I've read the STAR studies and its conclusions, but I'm not convinced that is enough evidence to conclude that lower class sizes in and of themselves lead to better student performance. It obviously had an effect in Tennessee of helping minority low-income students the most, but data/results from California were inconclusive.
I think the STAR is a good, balance report and a starting point for further studies overall, I'm just not sure it's the final answer on an issue where large $$$ could be involved.

I think the report is good and I've looked it over a few times every now and then, but I do not know if you can draw an absolute conclusion that lower class sizes for Grades 1-3 is the only reason for improved performance. There were also several caveats to that including just how much of a reduction is needed as well as how larger class sizes after the 3rd grade had no effect on the student's improved performance.

What I got overall from STAR then and now is that lower class sizes may only matter in Grades 1 through 3, as well as confirmation about staff-pupil ratios having no effect. I'd forgotten how parapro's being in the classroom in addition to a teacher also has no effect on performance, though.

Submitted by doi-it-to-me-on... on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:32am.

This is about fiscal responsibliy. How can you ask tax payers to pay more taxes and not look at running costs of schools. I guess you work for the government too.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:54am.

when those schools are sitting in the middle of no where? And in the middle of no where? Why didn't they buy the land across from McIntosh high just like Weiland bought it, and put another school on it. That is a big piece of property. It isn't just were that subdivsion of houses are, he also bought the land behind that he build/building condos on. As a matter of fact, the land Bob Adams built his houses on that face 54, was all a piece of that. Why was the school board members looking at property out around Brooks then?

That would have been prime land, across from McIntosh, to help with congestion

RetiredArmyMAJ's picture
Submitted by RetiredArmyMAJ on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:58pm.

I bet random checks by either the County Tax assessor with the Sheriff's department would turn up 5-10% illegal students. Check the drivers licenses and registrations.

Face it folks if illegal immigrants can buy a forged/couterfeit drivers license then out of county parents can buy residency documents.

Just yesterday I saw a Clayton County extended cab Pick up truck dropping off a student then the 4 men still in the truck drove off.

Fighting for truth, justice and the American way, while ignoring the ignorant!

Submitted by Arf on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 10:04am.

If it is true that we are paying for a number of “illegal” out-of-county students, which seems to be the case, then it is no wonder that we are having budget problems. Unfortunately the victims of this abuse will be Fayette County residents’ children.

Fayette County Board of Education residency requirements:

“Non renters or occupants of another person’s home/residence:

A designated Fayette County Schools Property Affidavit signed by the parents/guardian, as well as by the home’s occupants and the property owner. The record must include the name of the parent/guardian, the student(s) being enrolled and a photo ID. The property owner must also provide the documents noted above…” (property tax statement or closing/purchase information…and a current electric or gas utility bill…)

The process for collecting and verifying school residency requirements is stated, but is an informal process documented by school administrators, often at a time when there are long registration lines, people concerned about getting registered before school starts, and at a time when there is a lot going on administratively. Those excepting or denying residency documentation may be fearful of their jobs if they make a wrong judgment call, and also don’t want or need a confrontation with an irate parent, no matter what the circumstances. I have personally had two different experiences in the past several years. At one point I moved to a new rental in a new school district. When I registered my child, I had not been living there long enough to get a utility bill. I did not have my lease agreement with me at the time, and the administrator said that a check with the address printed on it would do. Luckily, I had printed my new address on my checks, but how easy at that. Even though this was all legitimate, an address on a check is not proof of residency. I was thankful that the person doing the checking made the exception, but looking back, I could have been anyone from anywhere registering my child at that school. On another occasion, I moved after my divorce, registered my child in a new school district and had to show everything…including divorce papers that gave me custody of the child. Point is, it is very informal and very inconsistent. A utility bill is not proof of residency. My son moved out on his own to a different county. Just to help him out, I called and had the utilities put in my name with no questions asked. Since I was willing to make sure the deposits were paid and took responsibility to ensure that the bills were paid, they gladly accepted my name. This also was innocent and legitimate, but I easily could have offered to put someone else’s utilities in my name for whatever reason, and “proved residency” with a utility bill for a house that I did not live in.

How do you prove that a child actually lives at a particular residence and should be allowed to attend the school in that district? In a situation where someone in the county has family members living in another county with a poor school district, they very well might consider signing an affidavit saying that the out of county children live in their house so that they could attend schools in a better district. After all, it is the children’s future possibly at stake and this could be considered a quasi-survival matter. True, there are penalties for signing a false affidavit, but it’s a maximum fine of $1,000 possible jail time. How often is that kind of case going to be tried, or can it be proven? If I’m concerned, I might have extra beds set up in my house with clothes and other items belonging to the out- of-county child. Even if someone were to come into the house to investigate, the child apparently “lives” there. I could explain that they do live in my home, but that they went back temporarily to visit with their parents, or are temporarily staying with friends, etc. There are laws, but in some minds preservation or survival
has priority over certain kinds of rules or laws.

In my opinion, we actually have very limited ways to prove that a child meets the residency requirements. If there are people who choose to circumvent the requirements by abusing it, then I think that is fairly easy to do. Cars at schools with out-of-county plates might be an obvious clue, but I saw a student get off a school bus at a local restaurant awhile back. I figured he was coming to a part time job, but he just hung around awhile before he was picked up by a car with out-of-county plates. Not everyone is going to play by the rules, and when there are no failsafe methods, it’s easy to make up your own rules.

The school administrators charged with documenting residency requirements are neither qualified nor equipped to do a good job with this. The numbers of out-of-county cases recently has made this a much more significant task than in the past and it may be time to take a different approach to documenting and verifying residency. There are hundreds of ways around the current system. How do you prove that a child actually lives somewhere. If there is a question of residency, a lease agreement or property tax bills might establish residency of adults (although I’m sure these can be faked also.) The adults claiming residency for children in question should be asked to provide divorce custody papers, guardianship papers, adoption papers or tax returns showing that the children are “legal” dependents. All of this makes the process a significant one and would also make the burden of proof of residency more complicated and irritating for legitimate residents. But, once again, we all have to sacrifice and pay for criminal elements who are determined to override the laws.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 10:22am.

what you say is very good. It is a huge problem that the board members have not done much about. When I take my child to school, Clayton and Fulton county tags abound EVERY morning. As I've said so many times, they are costing us MORE than if Clayton had collapsed and we took them with a subsidy. Now we are getting nothing. Yes, all the other kids know who they are, but won't rat them out, but then again, that is not the kids jobs, to fix what the adults who are paid to do it, won't.

Submitted by sageadvice on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 5:35am.

Could you please detail what this means:
"I bet random checks by either the County Tax Assessor with the Sheriff's department would turn up...." Tax man and sheriff?

Sounds like the grand fence on the Mexican border!

Submitted by Split Decision on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 10:18pm.

RetiredArmyMAJ - once students start driving there is another issue I haven't seen discussed here before: when the student lives out-of-county, but uses an in-county address of a relative for "proving residency." This scenario is being played out over and over in our county's high schools.

My senior knows of a few of his friends attending other high schools that are using this exact scheme in order to continue to attend their preferred FC high school. Apparently the loopholes in FC's proof of residency are big enough to literally drive a full-sized automobile through it, since it's a very common occurrence. I'd venture saying if you ask a current FC high schooler, they can tell you BY NAME the students who live out of county and forge residency proof.

Submitted by NeedtoKnow on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:33pm.

I'm all for having more kids walk to school. I live about 1/4 of a mile from an elementary school, easily reached by PTC cartpath, and yet the bus stops at the top of my subdivision. Why can't those kids walk? In the time they spend standing at the bus stop, they would already be at school.

I remember several years ago when the buses quit coming down into most subdivisions in PTC. The parents were up-in-arms, but got over it.

And if you don't want your kid to walk, how about carpooling? It is crazy how many cars wait in line at the schools, only to let out ONE child/teen.

I'm sure my comments won't get a positive response, but what else is new?

simpleton's picture
Submitted by simpleton on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 8:11pm.

I don't think it would be such a bad thing for kids to start walking a little way once in a while. My brother and I used to walk all the way across the town we lived in, every morning, when we were in middle school. Kids today are getting heavier and more sedentary and it would be good for both them and the environment to do a little walking.
On the other hand, perhaps it's a question of safety. I doubt that the town I lived in when I was in middle school was any safer than Peachtree City is now, but I think I'd have a hard time with letting my kid walk alone to school, no matter what the crime rate is.
Car pooling is a good option all the way around. I avoid being out directly after school because of the line-ups all around town both in PTC and in Fayetteville. I don't understand why parents don't take up car pooling.

poipendicular's picture
Submitted by poipendicular on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 12:58pm.

Less bus routes may help with the price of gas. I grew up walking to school, or taking public transportation to middle school and high school. For the safety of younger children I can see why buses are a better choice, we don't have sidewalks, kids would take golf cart paths, which may wind around longer distances than a straight away to the schools. But to help with the rising cost of fuel, perhaps less buses with longer routes would be the answer. You can't say one subdivision doesn't get the buses because it happens to be very close to the school, the parents would rant about being taxpayers deserving the opportunity. Perhaps the parents leave early for work, and the buses afford the parents the visual of seeing their child on the bus in the hands of school employees before they leave town for work. Difficult choices to make for the upcoming school year. I just hope they don't cut the actual teachers salaries.

Submitted by wildcat on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:31pm.

Isn't this supposed to take place in June, somewhere in Tyrone? Does anyone know anything about it? What day, what time, etc?

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:38pm.

Yes, everyone needs to come!! Meet the candidates on July 12th at the Tyrone Depot from 6-8. It is essential to get rid of Smola, Smith and Wright! They are going to bankrupt this county. They do not question any expenditures and sign them off with a rubber stamp! I could tell you some story. But that is another blog. The current HR director is trying to get a million dollar computer for the HR dept. We don't need. We are not that size of a system. She also wanted an $8,000 a year raise. Everyone needs to take this next election very seriously. Todd and Key are the only board members questioning these purchases!

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 9:14pm.

Meeting is June 12!! Tyrone Depot 6-8. They will have refreshments.

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 9:11pm.

Meeting is June 12!! Tyrone Depot 6-8. They will have refreshments.

Submitted by buckstopshere on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 11:44pm.

Most people don't realize, that the primary will decide who wins the BOE posts for 2008 election in November. All the candidates are running on the Republican ticket. You can cast an absentee vote before the election, or even vote the week before the primary at the libray in Fayetteville or PTC. Make your voice heard, get out and vote!!!!!!!!

Submitted by buckstopshere on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 11:00pm.

JUNE 12 at the tyrone depot.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 7:43am.

Yes, We had Mr. Smola on the Tyrone council, and we did question the high pay of two people, that being our famous Barney and Thelma lou. Every time that was done, he would look down his glasses with a very santamously and tell us their saleries were in line with other towns of their size. We are just now finding out that they had 100% paid health care. Not that they paid a % like everyone of the taxpayers footing the bill. 100%! and guess who's 'watch' that was on?

Speaking of which...I understand Tyrone's loss is now Stone Mountain's gain. I hope he's got a big switch blade!

River's picture
Submitted by River on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:27pm.

I'm soon to be a non-wildcat, if you know what I mean, and I've been trying to figure out who you are. If you know my identity, drop me a line, please. There's a lot of good people I would like to get to know better, including you. There never seems to be enough time.

Submitted by wildcat on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 5:56pm.

Based on what you write, pictures in the yearbook and the fact that you're leaving...would it be safe to guess that you reside in the trailer park??

River's picture
Submitted by River on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 6:20pm.

Yes, I'm just trailer trash! My secret is out. Drop me a line when you get a chance. (Use my work email.)

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:48pm.

tell them to stop 15 mins at each stopsign!

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:09pm.

How bout starting with DeCotis, what is it? 400,000.00 salery? God, he must heal the sick and raise the dead for that. The teacher's salaries are not really high, so I hope they don't cut them. They have much more of a daily impact on our kids than DeCotis.

If we had some people on the BOE who didn't build schools out in the boonies for reasons known only to themselves that would be a great start.

If we had someone who would GET RID OF THE OUT OF COUNTY KIDS...that would be a great help too.

The idea that some on the BOE want to run on a platform of no redistricting is ridiculous when they created the problem!

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:41pm.

That goes back to questionable land deals!! Thank a specific board member for that!! That is why we have schools in the middle of no where. Her husband and a former board member were going to develop the lands around these schools. How convenient!!

Submitted by ChipSmith on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 5:36am.

This is not true. I was never involved in any plan to develop that property. Greg Powers is my friend, but we aren't business partners. This rumor has been around a long time, but it's just a rumor.

Submitted by too bad on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:17am.

Since you want to participate in these boards, and set the record straight, can you tell us besides TCG holdings, and Action plumbing, what other companies you are a party to, as well as the other land development companies, if any. Just so we know and can tell the rumor mongers a thing or two.

Submitted by ChipSmith on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 9:29pm.

Give me a call at Action Plumbing, 770-892-3811. We can talk about it.

Submitted by CitizenBlogger on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 10:00pm.

If what you say is true, then why is the land at Inman still for sale?

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 9:55pm.

The property is zone A/R 5 acre lots. Developers want 1 acre lots.

Submitted by buckstopshere on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 10:45pm.

the property has a contingency upon sale to be zoned from 5 acre lots down to 1 acre lots (why would the school system care about zoning?). Fayette County will not honor that request because it does not follow the land use plan. I think something in the BOE stinks and it aint the gentrified members of the BOE...

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 10:37pm.

They wanted to sell it for hardly nothing until certain board members that actually care found out and started asking questions. Then they made the sell known to the public and at market value price. They also tried to do that with the mitigation rights for the property behind WHS. They wanted to sell that to for a song. It is worth millions. Very suspect.....but what do I know?? haha

Submitted by ChipSmith on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 5:42am.

I guess the board members you are talking to have big imaginations. I have nothing to do with that land behind WHS. You don't know as much as you think you do. Talk to my wife instead of spreading these lies.

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Thu, 05/22/2008 - 9:59pm.

Why are you so quick to respond? Guilty conscious?

Submitted by wildcat on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:33pm.

I don't think he makes that much! You're thinking of the new CC superintendent that only has to work 90 days and has security guards and all!!

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:52pm.

who are very aware of the saleries tell me. If it is less, I will be very happy to know I have been mis informed.

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 7:44pm.

He makes about 187,000 a year in salary. He also has a monthly car allowance and a fully funded benefits package that the school board pays. He doesn't have to even pay into teacher retirement. The school board does that. Very lucrative for a small district such as ours.

Submitted by CitizenBlogger on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 10:15pm.

Fayette County School System is larger than 93.7% of all the other U.S. school districts. That isn't large?

Submitted by Brooks Parent on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 10:39pm.

In comparison to the metro area of Atlanta. That is how his salary was determined. They used a salary study of metro counties that have MUCH larger district populations.

Newsboy's picture
Submitted by Newsboy on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 9:44pm.

Fayette County has 22,000 students in 30 schools, which ranks 17th out of 180 systems statewide. That doesn't sound too "small" to me.


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 6:57pm.

the very guts, God that's gross!, of our school system. All our focus should be on paying them fairly and helping them in the class room. I know mine told me a while back, he wanted to be home schooled. I think he got it in his head this would be a piece of cake. I told him I'd prob kill him after a week! How you guys have a class full of them and aren't in rehab is beyond me!

Newsboy's picture
Submitted by Newsboy on Tue, 05/20/2008 - 9:36pm.

OLD BEACH BEAR and others who harp on how much the Super gets paid are clueless. He's the CEO of a $200 million non-profit corporation that not only is the county's largest employer, but it's economic engine. Just watch how your property values will plummet if Fayette County schools begin to slip and the desire to live here begins to decline. (What happened in Clayton Co, btw). The schools are why EVERYBODY sacrifices to live in Fayette County, and John DeCotis is the reason (along with sharp administrators and principals, whom he HIRES!) why the schools have been able to maintain a level of excellence through some very trying times in recent years.

School boards have three constitutional responsibilities: Adopt a budget (i.e. set a mileage rate); review and approve of staff-recommended policy; and hire a superintendent. Period. The BOE members I've known over the years have always admitted that keeping DeCotis is their TOP priority! And they've done a good job so far. As far as I'm concerned, they should do everything in their power to keep him here as long as possible. The man has spent most all his career in Fayette County schools (arriving as a classroom teacher in the 1970s) and is as humble and dedicated as you'll ever meet. What's more, any school district in this state and country would probably love to have him, and I'm sure he's gotten plenty of offers. Some of you would probably like that. But losing DeCotis for any other reason than retirement, right now, but would be a HUGE blow to FC schools.

By the way, OLD BEACH BEAR ... every salary of every employee of the school system (including the superintendent) is included in the school budget. Do you EVER make an effort at finding out the facts on your own before you go spewing your ignorant remarks on here? Geeez.


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 05/21/2008 - 8:00am.

Smola, Smith and Wright.

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