Well, River- Obama will make Government a problem.

I suggest you go back and try not to make the video say what you want it to say, it's not Obama speaking.

BTW- what's the big problem now- we live in the land of the free- you should be thankful.

Don't worry about the religious talk you get that from Obama???

Hey I do admire my favorite President George W. Bush!

Have a nice evening.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

You should try it. I didn't get anything from Obama. The last few years have been a disaster for this country. Anybody with their eyes open could see that. Even the Republicans admit as much. For example, Sen. McCain SLAMMED the government response to Hurricane Katrina today.

(http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=4720825&page=1)

By the way, I admired Reagan, and I like McCain. You should try having a more open mind. Even Democrats have some good ideas sometimes.

Could it be that he's bitter that he wasn't elected in 2000 -- sour grapes? He's often been critical of Bush, and his latest complaint was mainly vote pandering. He was "in an overwhelmingly Democratic, black neighborhood." Did he criticize Nagin and Gov. Blanco?

Everyone who's running for president says, "If only I'd been president, things would be sooooo much better." Maybe or maybe not. I recently heard someone say (sorry, can't remember the source) that anyone running for pres has big ego. So, McCain's rhetoric is tapping into discontent, which is fueled by the media (newspapers don't sell if things are going well ) and political talk. People have little historical perspective in this day of instant gratification. Look back at the Great Depression & WWII if you want to see hard times. Things have been a lot worse. Also, Bush's popularity is really low. So what? History likely will treat his presidency a lot kinder than uninformed and/or partisan people (who've never gotten over Gore not winning) are doing now. Anyway, he's probably counting the days until he can leave office.

If BPR really likes some things about Bush, why do you care? It's a free country. I know her, and I can assure you that she doesn't come close to "worshiping" Bush. Have you ever heard of teasing? Maybe she doesn't like Bush-bashing. I don't either, and I do "think for myself." How can you be so sure that BPR doesn't? Bush hasn't done one thing right, according to some people. Also, why bring up Bush when she linked to a Reagan video? He, much more so than Bush, was for lesser government. Dems are for more & more government.

And then the slam against Fox News. You're not a Sean Hannity fan? Does that mean that you don't have an "open mind"?

"Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem."

Do you think that a lot of Obama supporters might come close to "worshiping" him? (I could give you a few examples.) Or will you hear Hillary's supporters say one negative thing about her? Just trying to be fair & balanced!

_______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)

McCain is critical of Bush because McCain calls it like he sees it. I don't know how he ended up as the Republican nominee--he is way too honest. Denise, you mentioned Nagin and Gov. Blanco, but that's just misdirection. McCain's criticism of the inept response to Katrina was fully justified by actual events.

I strongly disagree with you about how history will treat Bush. I think he is the worst, most ineffective president in our lifetime, and I think history will see it that way. Denise, if you are honest for a moment, you will admit that the last few years have been a series of debacles that the Bush administration has been at least partly to blame for.

By the way, the next most ineffective president was probably Jimmy Carter. I say that although I greatly admire him personally, and I admire his many accomplishments since leaving office. One big difference between me and BPR is that I try to see both sides of an issue fairly, and not just blindly support "us versus them". Denise, you strongly advocate your points of view, which I often disagree with, but you usually support your points with facts. Often very selectively, but hey, that's what a good lawyer does!

You're right that our current economic downturn is no big deal, compared to the Great Depression. (So we DO agree on a few things!)

Fox News has been extremely slanted politically. Every news organization has some bias, but Fox News seemed to be doing it deliberately, with the intent of providing pro-right-wing propaganda. In any event, my inclusion of Fox News in my comment was for BPR's benefit, since she was not willing to consider anything put out by the other national news media. I was trying to find a source that she might actually listen to. You're right that I don't like Sean Hannity, but then again, Glenn Beck (CNN) is just as bad.

One last point: I don't believe in blindly supporting ANY politician. You are probably right that some Obama supporters are just as blind as BPR. Well, they are just as wrong.

"Clever" -- What do you mean by that?

"just misdirection" -- That implies that I'm dishonest.

No, Nagin & Blanco were very culpable; it wasn't all the feds fault. Whatever happened to local government & personal responsibility? Ignoring the local failures won't help prevent re-occurrences in the future, just like not fixing problems at the fed level won't either. Too often any more people want everything done at the fed level, which just increases bureaucratic inefficiency. "Government isn't the solution to our problems; it is the problem."

"if you are honest for a moment" -- Did I call you dishonest?

I heard a discussion about Bush's place in history that gave some good points & was repeating what I'd heard. Maybe or maybe not, but I'm not going to get upset since I can't change the past & won't be writing the history books. I still think that Bush was a better choice than Gore or Kerry. Whatever mistakes he's made may or may not be equaled by the next president. And we haven't had another attack like 9/11. Surely he's a little responsible for that?

Bush = "the worst" but Carter = "the next most ineffective"

I don't guess you'd be "very selectively" looking at the facts, would you?

"I try to see both sides of an issue fairly." -- Maybe you're not as "open minded" as you like to think. And you wouldn't be implying that I'm not "fair" (which is a very subjective term), would you? By saying that I select facts, you're saying that I'm not looking for the truth. But, of course, you always are.

"That's what a good lawyer does!" Is that a compliment or an insult?

So, I hide or ignore facts (conscious decision) to distort the truth? Such as mentioning the culpability of Nagin & Blanco, which you label "misdirection"?

I don't expect politicians to be "the solution"; so, I'm seldom disappointed. They usually do whatever it takes to keep their lucrative job, not what's best. Tom Coburn, who's not liked by many top Republicans, I like. He's right about wasteful spending-vote buying. He tried to get bridges & infrastructure fixed first before money would be spent on buildings with senators' names on them, but no way. After that bridge collapse, we all should hold our reps accountable. Who cares if you have the newest building if the bridge collapses under you while you're on the way there?

As for Fox, I hear Dems present their point of view quite often. But if Fox is more "right," so what? (It's not as "right" as you think, though. "Propaganda"? That's a "fair" statement?) The others are often much more "left." I can't believe that you don't like Sean! I like Glenn Beck, too. And talk radio! And the internet.

Just wondering -- Did McCain say how he'd solve the problems with FEMA & do his solutions seem workable? Or did he just criticize Bush & say how great he is?

You are very good at presenting ONE side of an argument. I'm not calling you a liar; I'm just saying that you present the facts that support whatever point you are making, while glossing over any information that might water down your point. That's what a good lawyer does, so I understand what you are doing and I'm not condemning you for that, but I'm not here to win a case. I'm expressing opinions based on my experiences and observations, and I'm trying to be fair and balanced about it. By the way, my daughter is a lawyer, so no, I'm not taking any cheap shots at you.

As to your specific points, you are right that there was a lot of culpability for the Katrina disaster, such as the Louisiana governor and the "Chocolate City" mayor. It wasn't just Bush that screwed up. However, McCain's criticism was nevertheless warranted.

My original point to BPR was that the Bush administration had indeed screwed up. Criticism of the federal response to Katrina is pretty universal, and includes many other Republicans. I also pointed out that she could verify this in ANY major news source including Fox News. Those were completely valid points. Now you are sparring over the details.

Well, Denise, you are much better at that than I am, so I will concede your other points and say, "Have a nice day!" (Seriously, have a great day.)

I only watch Fox to see Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck, they look better than the other guys on the other channels. Just like President George W. Bush looks better than Kerry or Clinton, McCain, Obama. Hey, and my husband does not even mind that watch them.

BTW- the other channels are liberal- not for me, if you enjoy it go for it.

Have a good night River.

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We Will Stand

Fox "News" needs to have its name banned since it is not a "News" channel. Call it the ultra right wing channel (URWC).
It is organized to appeal to the group who has the most members: the ones Obama referred to in his speech! You know, church flag wrappers, gun toters, phone tappers, warmongers, etc.

A couple of years ago, I suspected that Fox News was part of a right-wing conspiracy to overthrow our democracy through a campaign of misinformation. However, now that Bush and the neocons have squandered their political power, Fox News seems to be more and more mainstream in the news they report and the way they report it.

When I go to the World Gym in PTC, they have a row of TVs in front of the treadmills, and they usually have Fox News and CNN side by side. Two years ago, there was a stark difference in the way they reported the same news. Fox was very fond of showing news clips with a very prejudicial title at the bottom that posed a loaded question like perhaps "Democrats Aiding the Taliban??" They would pose it as a question so that they couldn't be accused of making a false statement, but if you just glanced at the TV, it looked like a statement. Meanwhile, CNN Headline News would be reporting the usual spectrum of news stories that were also being covered by NBC, ABC, and other news sources.

Well, if you flip over to Fox News now, they are covering the great white shark attack in California. And when they report on the Clinton/Obama battle, it is reasonably balanced and objective. A lot more like CNN than 2-3 years ago.

So I think you are right--Fox News is aimed at appealing to the group which has the most members. Currently, that target is becoming more middle-of-the-road, so Fox News is becoming more moderate as well. I still don't trust them, but like I said to BPR, I like to listen to a variety of news sources, and that includes Fox.

Ironically, CNN is becoming more like Fox. I wince whenever I turn to Headline News, and Glenn Beck is ranting about "whatever". He always rants! Whatever happened to reporting "headline news" as a concept? For that matter, why does MTV and VH-1 never play music videos anymore?

Oh well, now I'm on a rant, just like Glenn Beck. So I'm out of here.

See yah!!

You have to have a sense of humor to like Glenn Beck. I love the guy, he makes me laugh, and still tells the truth. I'll always watch him. My husband listens to his radio show also. Glenn Beck is great.

______________________________
We Will Stand

about Fox News is because they are true.

If you like Bush, that's your right. I just think you should avoid putting blind trust in any politician, or any person for that matter.

News sources are always biased to some degree, so I try to read a variety of different sources, including ones that I disagree with. For example, I occasionally read articles posted on the Al Jazeera network (http://english.aljazeera.net/English) which is an Arab news network. They are generally hostile to the US, but it is interesting to read their point of view, if for no other reason than to know what our enemies are thinking.

Have a nice day.

I don't just pick one source, I read and hear the others. I guess I will have to cut and paste more. I do hear the news on other channels, but I do watch Fox mostly because I do (my opinion)think they are the one that comes close to telling both sides.

There is not one politician that is perfect, humans make mistakes. I have respect for certain people, and I know people have respect for people I may not. That's the great thing about living in the land of the free. I must say they have to earn my respect and have integrity.
People differ on that and that is fine. I am just glad that we live in the best country.

Have a nice day.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

I don't know what Republicans you talk to, the ones I know admire President George W. Bush.

What was the job of the Mayor and the Governor of Hurricane Katrina? They did nothing- except one day tell people to leave.

President Bush called the Governor 3 days ahead and said you are leaving and her response was no- he told them to leave then. The Governor told people to leave one day ahead- what was she thinking? Don't blame President Bush.

I tell you one thing when President Bush saw they were not capable of doing their jobs- how fast he got the job done. FAST!

Yeah, I tried with one Democrat- what a disgrace now- I want my vote back.

The link does not work.

Have a good evening.

_______________________________
We Will Stand

The article about McCain slamming the Bush government response to Katrina was a major news story yesterday. It was on just about all the major news channels, both on TV and online. The link I included was to www.abcnews.com, but you could try msnbc or even foxnews (fauxnews).

This entire presidential campaign, all the Republican candidates have avoided lining themselves up with Bush, who is very unpopular across the nation. Conservatives on this website like Git Real have also distanced themselves from Bush. Etc, etc, etc. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

One last point--you mention the mayor and governor of Hurricane Katrina. I assume you mean the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana. However, the main problem in that debacle was FEMA, which was being run by a Bush crony who was appointed to that position despite his lack of qualifications.According to news reports, the agency's head, Michael Brown, had been supervising horse-show judges in Colorado before he was called to Washington in 2001 to work for an old friend, then the head of FEMA. Brown, with little disaster experience, quickly rose to be the agency's deputy director and then its leader. In the first days of the crisis, FEMA's decision-making appeared tentative and confused, with fatal consequences.

When it became clear that tens of thousands were marooned, the federal government was unprepared to rush life-saving supplies to the city's Superdome and convention center, to rescue the stranded and sick or keep order in the streets.

The inept response of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) not only a human tragedy but also an international embarrassment for the USA. After spending four years and tens of billions of dollars since 9/11 on "all-hazards preparedness," FEMA's parent, the Homeland Security Department, failed its first major test.

BPR, this was just one example of the Bush administration's total bungling their job in the last few years, but I have to go to work now. You have a good day. Try to do some real reading of the news from mainstream sources.

I still think President George W. Bush is the best President. I don't care what the news says. Mainstream sources- ha liberal. I know where to get the honest news.

Everyone seems to be writing for someone in their defense- can't someone defend Hilary? I don't support her- but I remember 8 years ago when her husband should have been kicked out of office for lying under oath. What happens to us when we lie under oath? Where are all Bill's supporter now?

We are still safe- President George W. Bush is outstanding! I would rather be safe than dead. The war on terror is far from over. I have my freedom to express that I would vote for President George W. Bush again.

______________________________
We Will Stand

I voted for him both times and don't regret it. I think he's done pretty much a poor job in most areas though, but I can't imagine anything better whatsoever from an Al Gore or John Kerry. He's allowed himself to fall repeatedly for the neo-con big government fantasy that is no different than the very same ideals that conservatives used to really bang on Dems about: big government knows what is best for you, trust your government, have blind faith in your government.

The blind eye towards civil liberties of this administration is deplorable and also the reason you see the more liberty-inclined wing of the Repub party like Barr, Paul and Gingrich distancing themselves from Bush and what is now the mainstream Repub party. McCain is going to emphasize every difference of opinion he has with Bush because his campaign has the intelligence to realize that Bush is very unpopular right now and no good will come from trying to ride that bus.

As far as safety or security...I never felt threatened before 9/11 and didn't the day after and the tremendous overreactions to what happened that fateful day show an alarming lack of leadership or common sense. On this, Bush is hardly alone but as President, you sort of set the mood and Bush quickly lost the international goodwill and sympathy towards America. Instead of a cool, level-headed focus, it was an orgy of laws and radical expansion of governmental powers and a rush to invade Iraq all under the guise of "security." This was kind of moment the neo-cons had been dreaming of because it gave great cover for expanding government as much as possible. If people want to be secure, there are plenty of authoritarian dictatorships around the globe that will take care of you as long as you do what they say. Americans tend to regard that as hardly living and a "bad thing," but the meek and the ignorant like it.

Immigration policy and solutions? FAIL.

As far as fiscal policies, they have been awful. Bush didn't even attempt to veto anything for several years, so obviously he didn't disagree much with the crap his fellow Repubs in Congress were putting on his desk.

I see 7+ years of woefully missed opportunities, a hard turn away from conservatism, the rapid and unprecedented growth of governmental powers, huge deficits, total lack of concern with concepts like due process and civil liberties, and no difference whatsoever in "security" of the nation itself. The borders of this country are as open as ever.....come on in and stay a while!

I will re-emphasize for those that like to say "liberals hate Bush." I like him personally. He mountain bikes, believes in fitness, appears to really love his family. We've got alot in common. In terms of an honest critique of his presidential abilities, the demonstrable results have been worse than poor on every level. I believe that many put party loyalty over an honest appraisal of someone's abilities. And I'm not about to support four more years of the last 7.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Thank you for the Reagan video--I miss him more everyday. It is so sad that people (Main Stream) find it so amusing to make fun of such a wonderful and inspiring man, especially since he has already passed. I have found that most liberals have very little shame. This time was no different.

"I have found that most liberals have very little shame. This time was no different."

So how do you like the ads being run by REPUBLICANS against DEMOCRATS during a DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY? How do you like the high road "Willie Horton" ads? How do you like CONSERVATIVES who call Barack "Half Honkey" or "halfrican American?" How do you like "Shrillary, Hitlery," Marxist, communist, socialist references made by your "high road" conservatives*?

People who can't say the word democratic "the democrat party."

No one here EVER makes fun of President Carter, do they? Because republicans are soooo above reproach.

How about conservatives in this administration's version of the VA? People who LIED to the American people underestimating veteran suicide attempts by 11,000. Is that shameful Armybrat? These were intentional lies from conservatives like you that won't increase support for the GI Bill or veteran's affairs as they add to the pile of veterans who need medical assistance. Not shameful? You must be delusional, brat. Truly delusional.

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

I find it amusing that all the Republicans can do is wistfully dream about a man who was a president over 20 years ago. Looking backward is what has gotten us, as a people, into the mess we are in, vis a vis the government. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I guess with that line of thinking we need to just forget the founding fathers and the Constitution. Yeah, forget that Declaration of Independence while we're at it. That would be looking backwards and God knows, that is why we're in all this mess now! I'm sorry you don't have someone of the caliber of Reagan to admire and to not want to forget. He was such a inspiration and we enjoy hearing his speeches even though he is gone.

Definitely agree. I admire the founding fathers and read their writings frequently. What great minds and strong moral characters. I enjoy listening to MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech. Yard is likely irritated by that inspirational comment: "Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem." If too many remember that, they won't vote for the donkey. Karl Marx was contemptuous of history, too.

Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana

Our ignorance of history causes us to slander our own times. - Gustave Flaubert

History is the only laboratory we have in which to test the consequences of thought [such as communism & socialism]. - Etienne Gilson

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know no way of judging of the future but by the past. - Edward Gibbon, author of The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (6 volumes)

History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are. - David C. McCullough, biographer of John Adams

I used the popular paraphrase of the Santayana quote to exasperate my son (thank you, Denise: "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it. - George Santayana). Paraphrased: "HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF".

You'd think that a teacher, albeit former teacher, would know that.

Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it.
An addendum: And will be sure to suffer the consequences.

___________________________

"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it happened." – Norman Thomas, American socialist

but learning from the past and DWELLING on it are two entirely different things. The world is not the same as it was twenty years ago and we have to ba able to adapt to the changing times. If we are mired in the past, we will find that the world has passed us by. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Admiring someone and remembering a person doesn't equate to "DWELLING." I don't suppose remembering MLK qualifies as being "mired in the past"? Or demanding reparations and being perpetual victims is being "mired in the past"? Or calling for socialized medicine (& more & more socialism) when it's very unsuccessful in other countries is being "mired in the past"?

There are basic principles that never change. Don't officers study famous battles of the past? Also, knowing what causes decay in societies isn't being "mired in the past." Are you saying that Republicans can't learn from the past? But, then, we're not "progressives," are we?

You fail to elaborate how "looking backward" "has gotten us, as a people, into the mess we are in, vis a vis the government."

________________________________

History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are. ~ David C. McCullough, biographer of John Adams

Um, does anyone remember Iran-Contra? Reagan BROKE the law! And all he could say about it was "I don't recall". He deliberately disregarded Congress's mandates and funded terrorist rebels through arms sales! He set the precedent for Bush's attitudes toward the Constitution and the concept of checks and balances that we have built into it. No, I don't look back on Reagan wistfully.

I remember Iran-Contra just fine but I am having alittle difficulty remembering that President Reagan had anything to do with it and especially I do not remember any proof that he broke the law. I do remember him calling for a full investigation and instructing his staff to co-operate fully with the investigation. As far as I can remember, it was HRC that used that "I don't recall", dozens of times and under oath.

Perhaps you were stationed overseas during the Reagan years and only got to watch AFN?

He coined the phrase.

"hillary I don't recall" ---maybe you are mistaken. But, that never matters with you guys.

I just googled Reagan "I don't recall" and got 81,500 hits. Oh yeah, others said it too, but don't even try to suggest Reagan didn't.

370,000 for the Hildabeast...

then you only get 79,500 for Hilary.....maybe she learned it from Reagan.....

I am no "honey" to you!

been in the south too long...no offense intended.

None taken..just messin' with ya!

I am also an army brat. Graduated from DoDDS schools even.

Thank you for your comment. I do admire President Reagan- I read his son's book. It was great!

I get insulted around alot by the liberals, it's good to hear encouraging words like yours. It means alot. Thanks again.

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We Will Stand

But you have lost all respect from me for reading Denise's racist words that I quoted, trying to scold me about no need for racist words, and THEN after learning the words were from the twisted mind of Denise, remaining ABSOLUTELY SILENT TO THE AUTHOR OF RACE-BAITING comments you decried originally? What am I to think of your true motives BPR? I believe you are reaping the harvest of the seeds you have sewn here, as Lily and now as BPR.

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Did you not get my message where I talked about what my husband said? If not you will have to find it.

You want to know the truth and honestly this is the truth, I did not know you were not white until about 3 weeks ago when my husband said he quotes alot of we black men, I said what, I never noticed that. That is how much I care about it.

Denise is not a racist. Is that what you are saying. You dish it out to her like crazy. I don't care what you think about the Lily situation, it's over with- I did prove a point.

I did not see any race comments from Denise except Black Liberation Theology- I think KKK and Black Liberation Theology is wrong.

What do you think about Black Liberation Theology? You avoid that question every time I ask you.

Good shot though trying to run me off with the Lily line- I'm not leaving. I know who I am- thank you for judging me. Does not bother me, I am so sick of all the race talk.

Do you think God looks down and says oh, he's white, oh, she's black, no - he see us as the "HUMAN RACE" - that is the problem everyone lives in the past and won't forgive- and they don't see just the "HUMAN RACE".

You don't even know me, and you judge me over race issues- well you are way off.

What do you suggest I say to Denise- when you go around saying we black men etc. That's a race statement. I told all I saw that Denise wrote. BTW you all dish it out real good.

I'm not worried, my hubby read it all. Are we both idiots?

Now, I am sure your little group of friend will come around and help you out on this one. Go for it. Remember any responses to Lily or beeps or beeper will not get an answer. That was your friend ? Main's name she came up with- alot of name calling, insulting on purpose, what do you think about that.

Just remember you are know by the company you keep.

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We Will Stand