The answer to crime is drugs. They are currently illegal and, therefore, we have gangs that traffic and sell them. Other gangs step in to battle for competition, and users rob the innocent to get money for those drugs.

Now, compare this to alcohol? How many gangsters smuggle alcohol? How many rival gangs attack each other over alcohol sales? How often is a store robbed or a home broken into so a criminal can get money for alcohol?

Getting the point yet?

Back during Prohibition, Al Capone and his gang ran Chicago and ruled with an iron fist and a tommygun. Violence was abundant.

But, while he was in prison, Prohibition was overturned and Al Capone left prison. He retired in Palm Beach, Florida with nothing to do. His gang fell apart. Violence over alcohol ended abruptly.

Getting the point yet?

Legalize drugs. Let the users out of prison.

Violent crime will dramatically decrease, because drugs will be regulated, taxed, and cheap.

But, hey, that makes sense and has been proven. That's why it will never happen.

I'm totally in favor of that, but we're a ways away from that happening. There are hundreds of thousands of people in the US employed solely because of the boneheaded War on Drugs, and they sure aren't going to let their jobs be eliminated without a fight. They have a 100% vested interest in drugs being illegal forever. You drastically reduce the amount of criminals and there is suddenly no need for so many law enforcement/prosecutors/gov't types.

It's a colossal waste of money, resources, and anti about everything this country stands for, but not many have the political guts to say the obvious. When William Buckley came out in National Review a few decades ago in favor of the decriminalization of marijuana, I really though there was hope that sanity would spread. Sadly, it hasn't.

As far as which drugs.....I don't take the gradualism approach that a lot of potheads advocate, and that is legalizing marijuana first because it is somehow "less harmful" than heroin, cocaine, LSD, meth, etc. The issue isn't whether it's "harmful" or to what degree; any idiot should know it's not "helpful" and too much has very negative consequences. The issue is whether the government has any right whatsoever to tell you what you can or cannot put in your own body. I say no. Beside that point, all this War on People is doing is giving a whole bunch of people criminal records that will hinder their future employment, which means us taxpayers are going to be asked down the road to support them, both while they are sitting in jail for possessing drugs, then on welfare because they can't get a good job with a drug charge on their record.

Being a conservative, I'll probably regret saying this, but given the prison statistics article from yesterday's AJC I have to agree that it may be time to legalize and control drugs. The AJC article is a little lengthy and the clear bar graph that was in the paper has been replaced with text, but it shows that >53% of federal prisoners are in for drugs. That's astounding. Hard to tell how much of the other crimes; murder, robbery, theft are tied to getting drug money. Can't see how legal can be any worse than illegal. If you want to fry your brain have at it.
AJC Article

We can probably go around and around with this discussion. But what I know for certain is that the those that perform safety sensitive jobs in my industry can not be using drugs for obvious reasons.

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what this has to do with the argument at hand. Nobody is saying make it legal to drive stoned, just as you can't drink drunk legally now.

Fact is, the so called war on drugs, is costing the USA millions. With nothing to show for it but jails full of folks and dead people.

What drugs would you make legal?
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I'm sure they can't be under the influence of alcohol, certain prescribed drugs, etc. either. Just because something might be "legal" shouldn't have any bearing on whether it might not be OK to do at any time and any place.

Under the DOT drug testing standards it's not an issue of being under the influence. The presence of any DOT unauthorized drug will cause a removal from duty action. Alcohol on the other hand has degree of fitness or sliding scale standard. However, consuming alcohol while performing any safety sensitive position will also result a removal from duty action.

The message for those in this industry is never use drugs.

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Which drugs would you legalize?
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Every one wants to say no to making drugs legal
make them all legal and tax them and you would be very suppised
the difference it will make.

there are two many countries that have taken the step with
postive results

look at the funds spent on the war against drugs that could go to better places like here at home.

shadowalker

As was once said about football

It's 30% braun and 90% brains (or maybe slightly less than that).

As a citizen of Fayetteville who happens to be white (even though that does not matter), I find PTC Avengers statements to be racist and offensive. Those 3 young men didn't commit a crime simply because they are black, they committed a crime because they are criminals. Color is not a predisposition to commiting crime. Any white, asian, black, yellow, whatever color you can think of is capable and does commit crimes. Comments like yours simply continue the cycle of racism and prejudice that causes our nation to stay divided. If I were to purchase a concealed weapons permit it would be to protect my family from criminals (who come in all shapes, sizes and ethnicities) not from black people.

Yep im back, cause i never went no ware.

But i must say that you make a stupid statement. maybeyou should look around. it was not white or asian kids that held someone up at gun point at banks crossing , it was not white or asian that had a beat down at the high school, it was not white or asian that broke into the gun store on 314 and robbed it of 9mms that could have been where the gun came from that was used on DDonuts that was robbed not by white or asian but BLACK not mex, spanish,indian,russian but
black check the crime roster in most surronding counties and I will bet you a months pay that 80% or more where by black , not white asian
indian, mex , spanish, BUT BLACK

now shut up

shadowalker

I'm sorry you, and the other posters who disagree with me, feel that way. However, I'm not sorry for what I said. If you read my post again you will notice that I urged "all able" citizens to seek concealed carry permits. By that I meant every adult law abiding citizen here who is concerned about crime and meets all state mandated requirements, skin color (white) not being the exclusive qualification. Everyone who is concerned with their safety and the safety of their family should be encouraged to use firearms to protect themselves, be they white, black, Asian, etc.
You're right to assert that color is not a predispotition to committing crime. No one is ridiculous enough to believe that there are no non-black criminals; of course there are. However, when certain elements of the black population continue to commit these crimes it ceases to be "profiling" and becomes a "description of the suspect." There seems to be a not so subtle pattern developing here, wouldn't you agree?
To the gentlemen who wonders why my outcry was muted over the white males arrested for sex crimes. Well, a few reasons. While everyone here can certainly agree that these crimes are heinous and inexcusable, they pose no threat of harm to the citizenry at-large. These crimes generally take place behind closed doors and community prevention is just not very possible. That's why the majority of crimes such as these are ex post facto and leave people close to the case with a sense of astonishment (e.g. "He's the last person I would've ever thought would do this," "I just can't believe it," and so on). Simply put, there is no worthwhile community approach that would put a stop to these acts. Crimes such as robbery and assault are different. Oh, and nice try implying that all pedophiles are white males. It's almost as if you're conceding the point that blacks are more likely to commit street crimes but somehow the notion that most or all pedophiles are white men excuses it. Besides the hilarity inherent in your implication, it simply is not true. The reason the figure seems unbalanced and inflated is simply a function of population. What's interesting is that figures detailing black crime, even when controlling for population disparities, remain unbalanced and disproportionate.

The statistics remain unbalanced and disproportionate. Black Judges, Bill Cosby, and many minority organizations have discussed that. But only a fool in the streets of America assumes that 'whites' don't rob stores, snatch purses, and kill people. The arrests in Fayette County for drug possession, DUI, shop lifting, etc. show that we have a 'diverse' criminal element in our county. If there are those who feel that we will be safer with untrained, gun toting civilians walking around our streets - that's their right. I think we should pay more taxes, hire more law enforcement officers at a decent wage, and have classes for citizens to make them more aware of how to assist our law enforcement officers by being aware of their surroundings and recognizing suspicious behavior.

As I've stated, it's obvious that there are white criminals too. No one is denying that. I think you present some great ideas in your response. While obtaining a concealed carry permit is one way for concerned citizens to protect their interests, it surely is not the only way. More neighborhood watch programs, increased law enforcement training and personnel, and greater community wide vigilance can go a long way in preserving the Fayette county quality of life.

We're on the same page. Is there a cost to The Neighborhood Watch Program? Not many people want to hear about any program that would raise taxes - but a few dollars extra from everyone for more law enforcement is cheaper than everyone buying a gun. (and safer IMO)

Let's see now....

First, is it "racist to correctly identify the criminals with a physical description making it easier to narrow them down?

Next, would it be "offensive" to place that description in the text of a note?

Oh yeah, and now let's break down the definition of the word which you seem to throw around pretty freely...

"RACIST - Someone who believes in the superiority of one race over another"

Hmmm, do you think that definition fits the way you carelessly use that word?

And while we're at it... let's look at the Fayette County crime statistics in relation to the increase in total population on a year by year basis.

Next, let's add in the percentage increase of blacks and watch to see if there may be a correlation in the spike in crimes and the spike in percentage of blacks vs whites in the county.

Now let's compare to surrounding counties, e.g. Fulton, Clayton, etc and use the same analysis.

Anybody got the guts to do this comparison and analysis?

Nawwww !!! You'll never see it...why??? Because then you'd be called a RACIST.

"All presidents of the United States to date have been white men, and presidents are leaders, therefore, black people make inferior leaders, and you cannot accuse me of racism because it's truuuuuuuuue!"

"All presidents of the United States to date have been men, and presidents are leaders, therefore, women make inferior leaders, and you cannot accuse me of misogyny because it's truuuuuuuuue!"

I lurves me some logical fallacies!
___________
Diagnosing Denise

How about "race baiting," or "divisive" comments? After all, what is the purpose of saying:

"Fayette county, get ready for a black crime wave."

And:

"There's nothing we can do to reverse it. It's already here. I urge all able citizens to look into getting a concealed carry permit."

Soooo. A crime wave is coming.

the crime wave is actually already here.

the crimewave is black.

Get your guns.

Naahhh. nothing race-baiting there. Not turning a blind eye to EVERY HOMICIDE that has occured in Fayette County since I moved here in 2001.

Where were these people when we could have been "getting ready for the white male child molesters?" Do they only care about the doughnut shops? Would I be just as correct and not at all racist to say "get your guns. The white middle -aged male pedophiles are riding the crime wave into Fayco?" That's idiotic. Except for studying the demographics of one specific crime, such a post only serves to divide, divide divide. What solution does it offer, Cyclist? What makes you think this has anything to do with Bill Cosbey?

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Here is a complete list of all the residents who fled the white crime wave of Fayette County for the safety and superior schools of Clayton, Fulton and Dekald:

Please excuse me if I don't sing Kumbaya.

So I guess you believe that Judge Arrington and Bill Cosby are wrong in their comments?
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I suspect that Judge Marvin Arrington and Bill Cosby will agree.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

or Asian crime?

How about Latino crime? Do we prepare for each differently? I am black, will I be part of the wave? How about our black police officers; will they be surfing the black crime waves as well?

As a side note, you may want to prepare your children for a surge of white crime. It seems Bryan Carey, white convicted pedophile caught by the PTCPD sting, has a strong appeal going because he was actually chatting with an adult. If he wins his appeal, over 20 (mostly white male) convicted pedophiles may go free. So, Avenger, best prep those kids for the white waves as well.

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

I posed this question to you several months ago, but believe you may have been out of town for as long as it stayed on the board. Either that or you just ignored it. I believe David’s Mom, and maybe Hutch, came to what they thought was your defense even though there was no attack in my question. Question is, I am curious why you feel it is necessary to tit-for tat every post referring to black criminal activity and what you’re trying to accomplish with that tactic. The first time I asked was back around the time the beaver decided to make a career of posting all black crime. I can’t for the life of me see where either side of that equation serves any useful purpose. Good luck with your new dogs. Sorry no, we already have our 3.

If you check a few posts above, I say this:

"Would I be just as correct and not at all racist to say "get your guns. The white middle -aged male pedophiles are riding the crime wave into Fayco?" That's idiotic. Except for studying the demographics of one specific crime, such a post only serves to divide, divide divide."

I try to illuminate the fact that when men have abused kids, people here have been murdered (a pretty serious crime), and massive amounts of money have been stolen (recent securities fraud case) none of these justice seekers say a thing. They are silent. The pedophile appeal is a big story in the press and in court right now. But these people, who seek to link crime to color ONLY DO SO WHEN THE CRIMINAL IS BLACK. That is why I said it only serves to divide.

If I failed to point out that every murder here in Fayco has been carried out by white hands, readers here would have the impression that the crime wave is truly a black one, and that they should walk in suspicion of me (a black guy that would be their best friend if under attack).

Tincan, for the record, if done for constructive reasons, there is a delicate way to address race as relates to crime. To say "the blacks are coming to bring crime so get your guns" serves this community poorly. I see criminals as criminals. Period.

As a side note, BEAVER has made a huge effort to measure his words with respect to race. I commend him for that. Thug is appropriate because that's what these criminals have been. I don't blame Beaver or anyone else for being mad about this. I just hope that when these issues are addressed, it's done in a way that seeks solutions. And that solution can definitely involve concealed weapons.

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Wow, what interesting responses to my straightforward question of what those tit-for-tat exchanges accomplish. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough with my question. Bottom line is I think your methods only serves to ratchet up the racial rhetoric. And if one (Sick) wants to “call out” a racist, bigot, etc. it can certainly be done by addressing the persons comment and not by trying to top theirs with one of yours. Since I agree with the “thug” references and a constructive approach to the situation I guess you “imagined” correctly.

Now, since you do choose to take that path, I would like suggesting some accuracy in your comments.

If I failed to point out that every murder here in Fayco has been carried out by white hands, readers here would have the impression that the crime wave is truly a black one, and that they should walk in suspicion of me (a black guy that would be their best friend if under attack).

Hate to say tain’t so. Thankfully the toll is low, but if you’re keeping score it’s a close game so far. Don’t know how long you’ve been here (’88 for me), but if you throw in the murders at the Forest (something) development east of Fayetteville it may be a tie. Now what did that accomplish? Don’t think it was bigoted, therefore should be considered enlightening.

As for the pedophiles, I think everyone around here is well aware of the situation. Some legal problems with the techniques I understand. And I agree, if it passes the scrutiny, throw away the key.

You and the Beaver coffee claching now?

You said,

"Hate to say tain’t so. Thankfully the toll is low, but if you’re keeping score it’s a close game so far. Don’t know how long you’ve been here (’88 for me), but if you throw in the murders at the Forest (something) development east of Fayetteville it may be a tie. Now what did that accomplish? Don’t think it was bigoted, therefore should be considered enlightening."

Now I'm a wee bit confused. If your point is don't mention crime demographics when addressing people mentioning crime demographics, your point is taken as such.

All good?

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Voices of reason feel compelled to "call out" bigots, racists, etc. simply because to remain silent comes too damn close to condonation.

I am sure that he feels the need to post the crime statistics he does to show that The Beav is only illuminating one single aspect of the problem. While I also agree with you that blaming crime on race is a futile exercise...it does absolutely nothing about solving the problem. If Hack et al were to lie down and concede the field to Beaver, then the problem would indeed appear to be one-sided. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

While not one who with consistency foresees our fate, I must agree with Avenger that Fayette County will witness substantial increases in crime, in fact, our politicos have pretty much insured it. I do differ in that I do not see it as a problem associated with ethnicity, but rather of culture.

But back to our politicos insuring it. As diverse as Peachtree City is why is it that we required government assisted housing? Surely, the decision was one that we simply could have said "no thanks." Sure, we could have been denied some federal grant or whatever, but one has to truly weigh all the costs involved before moving forward without a thorough decision making process (SB 458 ring a bell?)

It seems to me that we have gone overboard placing a priority on multi-family units and have exacerbated the problem with excessive retail development. Sadly, this has been the norm for the last twelve to fifteen years. We will continue to experience budgetary woes because we as a community grew much too rapidly for the infrastructure to keep up. Three years ago it was the tennis center debt and today it's the police station fiasco depending upon which version one wishes to believe.

It is the growth at all costs mentality that has insured the increases in crime and now we must rely on law enforcement to respond both timely and agressively. Further, our courts must gain the reputation of maintaining a most stern hand when handing down sentences to the point of developing the reputation of being so "tough on crime" that its reputation becomes a deterrent.

The issue of gun ownership by private citizens also has a part in this deterrence, but we must take caution in our second ammendment right. Firearms in the hands of the untrained or uncommitted can harvest dire consequences. Guns are but tools that serve a specific purpose, therefore, should one not be willing to use it for which it was intended, one would be better off not having it. For those who realize that purpose, no one else would have a clue that a gun was present and available until such time its purpose was required.

Just my two cents worth.

Mike, can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm not sure where you are coming from. My understanding was that Peachtree City was always working under a master plan which included a mix of a wide variety of housing types, including multi-family units. I don't know that I've seen any "priority" on multi-family units now or at any other time in the immediate past. I've seen some zoning variance requests where developers want to put 4 houses on a lot zoned for 2-3 houses but I don't think that's the same thing.

Secondly, I think your position that our courts need a "tough on crime" reputation is a chimera. I seriously doubt that criminals consider a county's judicial system when casing targets.
___________
Diagnosing Denise

The priority to which I allude has to do with density primarily, but an over abundance of large apartment complexes does come into play. The priority shifted to higher densities around 1991-1992 timeframe in order to produce more city revenue (opinion).

I would have to dissagree with regard to courts showing toughness, it does make a difference, what is debatable is just how much.

They don't want to work for a living, we get it.

We may see more of this in the next couple of months because clayton-crime-county is imploding. Last quarter 4,000 homes went into foreclosure. There are alot of slugs that are being displaced and they still don't want to work for a living.

They still think the whole world owes them everything. We need to be safe. They can't move in if we don't leave.

If we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it. We already gave them one county and look at what they did to it. Should we give them another county?? I say no!!

and that is to work at getting rid of the "don't snitch" mentality, which provides an incubator system for all the bad eggs. This has nothing to do with color, it has everything to do with the gansta mentality, which knows no color, it feeds on the frustration of unemployed young males. Funding the sheriff's office to the maximum that can be tolerated is money well spent. Read the metro section of the Jacksonville FL Times-Union at www.jacksonville.com to see what happens when you don't.

I mean really.....need I say more? You sicken me.

We're fortunate to have experienced detectives on this case. Please - no issuing a license to carry without TRAINING!!

I don't see it changing in GA any time soon either. A small fee and routine background check is all that is needed.

I have two friends - grandmothers - who 'carry' legally. . .and I had to remind them that they have to remove the 'safety'. This is scary stuff!

I have a concealed weapons permit, though the primary reason I got one the first time long ago was due to the vagueness of GA law when it came to whether you can have a gun in your car out of plain sight and if that was considered "concealed" or not. I'm not one that feels that a mandatory certification in firearm use and safety is an infringement on gun owners who wish to obtain a concealed weapons permit. We rightfully require certification to operate an automobile so why not for concealed carry? If you want to take your heat to Publix and have it ready to fire at a moment's notice, that "right" should be given only after you prove you've received some basic firearm safety instruction on how to not blow your leg off or shoot Mom with her kid in the buggy as you think about being a hero.

Am I to understand that the law in Georgia does not require some type of training? I'm familiar with firearms - and an inexperienced person is a danger to ALL. The newer weapons have quite a 'kick' - and unless one is familiar with their weapon - they will never hit a target - especially if they're under any stress. If a crime wave is imminent - we should demand more officers on the street, etc. Citizens need to be aware of their surroundings and suspicious persons. . . .and I hope they don't judge a possible criminal by the color of their skin. I read the 'arrest' reports in the local papers. Fayette County has a diverse group of persons who 'break the law'.

You go to your local law enforcement in your jurisdiction(SO in Fayette), get fingerprinted, pay a fee, and then the permit arrives in the mail a few weeks later if you don't have a felony on your criminal record. It's good for 5 years. That's it.

As a staunch 2nd Ammendment defender, I agree that a basic competency certification be required before obtaining a carry permit. With that said in now way should any sort of training be required for a person to carry in his vehicle or his business providing he lawfully owns the weapons.

I'd love to see our Sheriff's Department provide some community firearms training from time to time. It might make for some good community outreach...hint, hint. Safety first.

________

"The More Money You Spend, The Harder It Is To Make Money Unimportant"

Autrey's has a basic gun safety class, very low fee, lots of great instruction. Even if you are not sure about owning a gun, take this class the instructor was fantastic. If you decide to continue lessons and or use the range for practice the fees are very reasonable.

Before anyone from Autrey's calls me, yes I know I have been AWOL, or MIA, and I will be in shortly.

But I honestly don't mind if these guys never make it to jail; no what I mean? Anyone that puts another's life at risk for personal, monetary gain does not deserve to live on this Earth with us, in my opinion.

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

It seems that most of em are coming from out of county.
I would still love to see "Fayette County Welcome Wagon" painted on the side of a paddy wagon with a Sherriffs patrol parked next to it at the county line . Park one at every major road coming into the county and heve the officer respond to calls from this spot.
If the bad guys have to drive by this coming in to the county to do thier deeds, they might think twice about how they are going to get out once they have done the deed.

Hack,

Don't know if you read Popular Science - this was in the last issue and maybe you saw it.

Enjoy.

Wing Men

I wish I had money Thanks a million. Those are sweet toys those men have!!!!

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)