I can take your insults, just like Sniffles your new pal. You both try and insult both myself and Denise. You just did not like what was said.

BTW you never got back to me with the questions that I asked you about the health care Obama wants to provide. If you don't give me the answers I guess you don't know.

I find it sad, that you are always come up with an insult for a reply to me. Do you have some more?

BTW- Let me help you with this one, everyone does not see things the way that Hack does. So, I"ll help you with this one- I"m cheering Hannity on.

Have a nice day!

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We Will Stand

Not sure why you want details of Barack's health care plan. I think if you cared about budget shortfalls, one of your daily blogs would have addressed the CURRENT budget shortfalls and deficit. You don't care about Barack's healthcare plan. There is nothing anyone on Earth could say to win you over to Barack, and I'm not about to try. At any rate, I thought you might like to know the thoughts many get when they read "what a way to go." Just ignore the info if it is no help

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Yes, I want to know how Obama is going to do this. i do have a couple of relatives and friends that do not have health coverage, so I might tell them and they might buy it.

So, what are the answer- who knows if they work that would be great!j
Tell me what they are.

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We Will Stand

Do you not remember Sniffles giving you a direct link to Obama's site? I'm not going to re-link something so easily found. You can even type in Obama.com and get it from the horse's mouth.

It seems to me that you are in favor of a situation in which helpless people have no healthcare (children, mentally challenged people, physically challenged people); and along with that group, those single parents that choose to stay home in their children's early years to help them develop; should they also be punished in order to keep "free loaders" from getting over? In essence, the entire uninsured group's health suffers so as not to have free loaders.

I look at that like throwing all accused in prison to make sure all the guilty people are locked up. Sure, innocents suffer, but you get more bad guys.

QUESTION FOR YOU BPR

So the current system where the single parent or both parents work all day to afford the high cost of healthcare, and latch-key their kids home alone for a good portion of the day: How's that working for us?

We look at this differently. As Sage indicated to you, this country will not let people die in the waiting room. These people will be treated, and it will cost MORE OF YOUR PIE because preventitive medicine was not practiced; kind of like not maintaining a car to save money until you need a new motor. Except, we insured folks and taxpayers pay either way; through high premiums or tax dollars straight out. So, I'm not sure how you think you are saving money right now ( when even you mentioned illegals and the uninsured getting treated). Where do you think that money comes from BPR? Anyway, I'll let you get back to Obama posting. Just thought I'd bring you some hack humor at the top of this one; it would have been a lonely post with no replies if I hadn't stimulated SDG. You are way too sensative sometimes.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Do you remember you said that I could get my questions about Obama just:

Submitted by AF A-10 on Thu, 04/17/2008 - 5:20pm.

I'm not going to re-link something so easily found. You can even type in Obama.com and get it from the horse's mouth.

When I put in Obama.com this is what I got.

click Obama.com

That was easy to type that in but could you explain it to me?

I just got in from a trip from work and didn't have time to do it while I was gone.

Come on laugh, that is funny!

I don't think that is my answer.

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We Will Stand

Ginki deska?

I'm sorry. I thought most folks could read Japanese. Here's why I am so confused with you. If you are really, truly willing to support Obama once you understand his Universal Healthcare plan, why all the BLT hubub?

If you are really curious about Universal Health Care, why have you not asked for information on Hillary's version? BPR, I am way too busy with kids and stray dogs and house painters and car salesmen and shoulder rehab to spend the kind of time it would take to explain a politician's health care plan to you. You have been able to find so much info on Barack Obama, it denies logic that you now would not be able to find his web site to get the explanation you, for some reason, are asking for.

Have a great sunny Sunday with the family,

Matanay, domo oregato

Kevin "Hack" King
(anyone want two dogs???)

Since you didn't see my post the one that says to everyone, I will not respond to anything but BPR.

You spend all the time talking about who knows what, you have the time.

To get into Obama website you have to put your email in- I don't want his garbage going into my email. I will believe the honest people on him.

You have a nice day!

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We Will Stand

Yeah, Sniffles knows how it's done. Did you read Sky response to Universal Health Care - I agree with Sky.

Humor- what humor, my husband reads the posts and laughs and says what are they talking about. That's why he won't post.

You don't know me, if you did as I told Sniffles, compassion is my strong point- I am told that often. If you disagree that's okay I know who I am.

Being sensative is a good thing, it goes along with compassion- you don't bother me when you say that. Caring for people is a good thing.

Everyone gets seen at the hospitals and doctors now- they don't live them to die. According to Sky - well read it.

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We Will Stand

"We already have alot of hand out to people that if they worked they would not need my piece of pie. The answer is get a job, pay for you own health insurance. My husband pays for ours, any good parent would do that."

BPR, Muddle has mentioned that his grand kids have been uninsured. Are their parents not "good?" Is your uninsured family that way because they aren't "good?" Just what type of compassion would this be?

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

You will say anything to defend you boy Obama.

I have not said that people are not good, now did I. I think you must have got that somewhere else.

Yes, if any good parents is offered insurance and doesn't want to pay for it- that is not what a parent that cares for their family would do.

We already have government assistance with alot of things.

I just want your answer how are we going to pay for it, and they have to pay with Obama's plan, now what if they don't want to pay for that? What if they can't afford it- I think what we do now is better than what Sky described.

My family members and friends have their own business, they can get insurance but they say the dedutible is so high, so they just don't get it.

Tell me their answers so I can let them know- how Obama is going to help them. The website did not seem like it did. It did not give you the answers to the questions I asked you.

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We Will Stand

You may notice that I quoted you directly from your post on giving up your peice of some pie. I did not mention Barack above. I was defending your "relatives and friends" who you relayed do not have insurance. In your own words, you said any good parent would provide insurance for their kids. No Barack in that. At any rate, I feel that I must not understand what you are after. If you are worried about the cost of Universal Healthcare, you must understand that if people are being treated on the government's or insurance company's dime now, WE ARE ALREADY PAYING. And it is much less efficient than a structured plan. Good luck finding info.

Kevin "Hack" King

"And it is much less efficient than a structured plan."

I almost fell off my chair laughing. Hack actually believes that it is possible for the U.S. government to administer health care to the masses efficiently.

That's the problem with the Democrat party. They think that more and bigger government is the answer to everything.

The Beav -
Just a typical, gun totin', bible thumpin white person. (but not bitter)

You don't know the answers. Thanks for letting me know that.

BTW if we are already paying it, what is Obamas point in doing Universal Health Care?

I just remember what Sky said happened to someone Sky knows.

So, they don't need a piece of our pie if we are already paying for it, do they?

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We Will Stand

And the tone of your post gives me the impression that you are perfectly content to remain in ignorance of the dire situation that many people are in, regarding health care. You said "I just remember what Sky said happened to someone Sky knows." But the thing that Sky posted was in response to something that I posted, and you are choosing to ignore what I said. I'll say it again.

It's almost impossible to get by on minimum wage, or any wage that is below about $20,000 per year. One of the first things to go is medical insurance. If you are getting by on minimum wage, the chances are that your employer may not offer medical benefits, and you can't afford to buy the insurance yourself. Consequently, a single trip to the hospital will bankrupt you.

Morgan Spurlock, the guy who did "Supersize Me", where he ate nothing but McDonalds food, also did a TV show called "30 Days on Minimum Wage". He and his girlfriend tried to get by on minimum wage jobs for 30 days. They almost made it, but they had to go to the emergency room for a relatively minor injury, and the bill came to $850 (if I remember correctly) That bankrupted them. Google the show's title if you want to read more.

This was an experiment that ended at 30 days, but in real life, millions of people are in this situation every day of their lives. You and Denise are quick to say that this is their own doing, and there is certainly some element of truth to that in many cases, but there is also the truth that many of them got there through no fault of their own--they were born into poverty. AS CHRISTIANS, we owe it to them to try render some assistance. Universal Health Care would be a major step in that direction. And as I understand it, it is not an either-or situation. If you can afford a better health insurance plan, then you are not locked into the government plan. Now that's my understanding of what is proposed, and what actually gets passed may be different. That's where we need to be actively involved, like we did with the recent bill that was proposed to allow Clayton Co. students to flood our school system.

Bottom line: the current situation is untenable. Medical care is prohibitively expensive without insurance, so we have to do something!

I want to hear it from Obama, he has not gone into details how Universal Health Care will work.

Why should I consider voting for him when it won't explain it. Now that is ignorant to vote for someone that does not tell you the plan.
As a matter of fact he has not told us much of anything except about hope that he got from his BLT church.

I will tell the people I know that was considering voting for him that I have not I can't find one person to explain it in details. They have informed me that if he does not explain it they will vote for someone else. They think they are not refused health care now, what is the difference?

What if what Sky wrote happens- someone could die waiting. Yeah, that's great a great plan.

They have assistance for low income family- I won't tell you my story, it's personal but ask Sky, I know from personal experience.

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We Will Stand

I would not even attempt to convince you to vote for Obama. I'm not even sure how I'm going to vote. What I was trying to tell you was that there are literally millions of people in this country who can't afford health care, and can't afford to pay for medical insurance. We need to do something to make health care more affordable for people who can't afford it.

I'm not wedded to Obama's plan, but we need to do SOMETHING pretty soon.

I'm willing to bet that you didn't bother to watch that "30 Days" video. Maybe, if you like the actor Will Smith, you could watch the movie "Pursuit of Happyness". You might get a taste of the desperation of some people who are actually trying to provide for their kids despite their poverty. By the way, that is a true story, and he ends up becoming a millionaire in real life.

I don't believe in an endless series of free handouts for people who are too lazy to lift a finger, but I think it is crucial for us to provide a ladder for those who are trying to climb out of poverty. Part of that ladder is to provide health care at a reasonable cost that won't bankrupt these people.

Since you are all for it, just tell me how it is going to work.?

From personal experience that is we have assistance from the government- I know for a fact- I won't go into it because it is too personal. If you need health care you can get it.

I dare tell my story for someone turning it into something else. The government took care of them.

I want details how it is going to work. Even if I don't vote for Obama I do have some people asking me if I know how is it going to work. Obama does not tell us. So, tell me if you heard him and give me the details.

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We Will Stand

I think we probably share some skepticism towards any government program, so I think the best plan would be something where the government subsidizes a private insurance plan for people who qualify for the subsidy, based on their lack of income. That would keep most of our current health care system private, like it is now. Sorry, but I don't have details of any specific plan. I am NOT here to sell you Obama's plan, I just know that we need some sort of plan that makes health care more affordable and more accessible to poor people, and even to middle-class people who don't work for a company which provides a health plan.

My main point is that it is in everybody's interest, including yours, for our system to provide a means for people to climb out of poverty if they are willing to do so. This country works best when everybody is working. If the system tends to bankrupt people who are struggling, then they will quit trying. Then we all lose.

If you look at the mortgage meltdown, that's a perfect example. Sure, many of those people made bad credit choices when they bought their house. But now, we are ALL paying for it. So I'm all for tightening up credit and eliminating predatory lending practices such as interest-only loans and balloon rates.

Look at it another way--we take it for granted that the government will keep the roads paved, the sewer system flowing, and public schools open. You can always pay for private school if you wish, but if you can't afford private school for your kids, there's always public school. Why not do the same for health care?

it really isn't about who should pay for it, it is about is it right to deny it or not. What are you, as a Christian moved to do? If that is what is truly important, then there will be a way to accomplish it. Don' t you believe that? Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

You give the details of it all. BTW who are you to judge me when you want a transfer?

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We Will Stand

If you can afford a better health insurance plan, then you are not locked into the government plan.

I wonder if the government scheme is a "lesser" plan?
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My opinion is that any government-run health care plan would likely NOT be as good as a top-of-the-line private plan. My feelings on that is that if you want top of the line, you should pay for it. But I WOULD like to see some sort of reasonably acceptable health care option for people in the lower third of our income groups who can't afford "top of the line".

from just dumping their plans and shift everyone to the government plan?
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

You might be right, and that's what would happen in many cases. But I think that a good health care plan would continue to be one of the benefits that makes one company more attractive to prospective employees than another, just like it currently works.

Like I told Beeper, I don't claim to know all the details, just that we need to do something more than telling poor people "tough luck!"

Also, I really wouldn't want everybody to be forced into the government plan, like in Canada and England. So what's your thoughts?

I suspect that if the government offered UHC, companies would be rushing to dump their plans due the drag on the bottom line.

Our health care system is very unique since it started out as a employee benefit to get around wage controls that were in place during WWII. Companies couldn't attract solely on wages so increased benefits were used as the carrot. The funny thing is, that if federal regulators back in those days put a stop to this practice our health care system would have probably taken on a more European flair. Enough of the history lesson.

Like it or not, our system of health care is a business. Drugs, equipment, people, and many facilities and associated infrastructure are in it for a return of investment. (Grady and other government provided facilities are different but are having a very hard time staying afloat.) Many of our marvelous technologies and medicines that we have to save and prolong lives are the result of much R&D work which is put on the market to make money. GE is not going to give away its imaging equipment just like pharmaceutical companies are going to give their drugs away. If I was a stockholder and they wished to do that I would vote each officer of that company out of his/her seat. My 401 retirement plan has medical stocks which I need for them to perform well since social security is not going to be very secure when I'm retired.

So what do we do? How do we get private business to roll back their costs so that we can cover everyone? I don't have the answer for that one. But I do know that governments have not been successful with implementing it. Perhaps free clinics to focus on wellness or preventive medicine is the way to go.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I certainly don't know what's the best course of action, but I don't think the status quo is acceptable. Thanks for the inputs.

By the way, Git Real, you were right--today was absolutely a perfect day, weather-wise. Made me glad to be alive. Well, good night to all.

I don't agree that a socialized healthcare plan is the way to go. I do agree that I'll take the path of least resistance and dump my folk into the gumament plan and blame Obama when their cancer overcomes their bodies when, if treated properly, they could have been cured. All I know is that if folks want it.... let 'em have it. Sometimes you have to be careful what you ask for. You just might git it.

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The Sissy And The Word Defined

as it pains me to hear about those with no coverage. If I had billions of dollars I would make sure that it was no longer a problem.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I'll dump my employees into it in a heartbeat and improve my benefits to them elsewhere to remain competitive and retain workers. Let the gumament deal with all the expense and compliance crap I fool with annually. I can invest that time and effort into making the biz more profitable. I call it outsourcing. Heck.... just slap another tax on my {{{EDITED AND ADMIRED}}} and let Obama fix it for us. I'll bet Delta, Walmart and others will join me in a heartbeat. As for me.... If I need quality surgery and healthcare I'll catch a flight to Bangalore and get first rate and available services over there while avoiding the proposed copy cat Canadian style failed system that socialistic medicine will deliver to us.

Man.... what a beautiful day it was today.

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The Sissy And The Word Defined

We have a dear friend who is dying of colon cancer, and she only has a few weeks to live. Her husband cannot take off any time right now to be with her for fear of losing his job and with it, their healthcare. So, she is at home alone, dying. A nurse checks on her everyday to make sure she is still alive and to help her with medication.

That's compassionate healthcare, American style.

I would suggest that your friend immediately researches FMLA....If his employer attempts to deny him this benefit, then he should get representation immediately...

I'm not sure why he hasn't pushed this issue more with his employer. They recently took one last trip together and he had to work the entire time, commuting back to the office everyday.

We watched the movie 'Sicko' recently and although the movie is most likely slanted, it touched on the healthcare programs the French have put in place (free day care, free nannies for families with newborns) and it was very intriguing and actually made us a bit envious. I'm sure the French pay out the wazoo in taxes, however, it would be worth the price for many of us struggling to maintain a sense of security and well-being for our families.

Ma'am, with all due respect, saying "Sicko" is likeely slanted would be akin to saying that Hannity's show has a slight conservative lean....

On the universal HC debate...I honestly don't have an issue with a government funded plan for the "less fortunate"....my apologies for the slanted remark, but I was one of those "less fortunate" folks growing up, and I had to work my rear end off to get to my current position, so those who want a pity party for their situation don't get any compassion from me....(I know this sounds bad, but when you've worked your way out of the lower class, those who constantly look for a handout tend to bother you...) The issue here, is who should pay for the plan? Should the top earners in our country pay for it? For the record, please note that those making above $350K earn ~ 17-18% of the income and they pay ~ 40% of the taxes in this country.....

IMHO, if we ever consider a Universal HC plan, it should be a high deductible offering (Say $2K, with a FSA account attached), and "pool" rate it.....this would ensure that every individual who is on this plan pays their fair share.....For those who don't know, pooling the risk would allow all who need universal HC to pay the same cost. Unfortunately, the lack of pre-ex would tend to ensure a hefty increase each year….The logic here is one of adverse selection. I would recommend anyone who isn’t familiar with the term to look it up….What would then happen in 5 years when those who are less fortunate couldn’t afford this coverage? Would people drop in and out of the plan depending on their situation?

My apologies for the extended response, but my RMI degree was screaming at me to expand on my true thoughts…..

You see, Main, those who push universal HC don't look for an affordable insurance policy for the poor; they want the entire cost funded by the government. Therein lies the rub.....Insurance intends only to cover a catastrophic loss....Insurance was never intended to cover everyday healthcare costs. (Which ARE out of hand, that I will agree with you on).

PS - Please plead with your friend to take advantage of what our system already allows him; I could never imagine not being able to spend any loved ones last moment worried about losing my medical insurance....If he needs language or a firm understanding of FMLA, please feel free to PM me, and I would be happy to pass along my knowledge of this act.

"I was one of those "less fortunate" folks growing up, and I had to work my rear end off to get to my current position, so those who want a pity party for their situation don't get any compassion from me....(I know this sounds bad, but when you've worked your way out of the lower class, those who constantly look for a handout tend to bother you...)"

Like you, I was part of that "lower class" myself and went without insurance for many years and was faced with cancer at a young age while in college. Petrified and faced with the diagnosis, I paid out of pocket for treatment which left me with a stack of bills... all this while I was putting myself through college, working part-time in the oil industry out west and trying to improve my life situation. Obviously I survived and I believe those years of going without insurance, being dirt poor, and trying to make a better life for myself, has caused me to look at the lower class with quite a bit of compassion because I can relate so well. And I'm not saying you don't have compassion for those folks, I'm sure you do, as you seem like a decent person.

I honestly wouldn't mind giving up part of my pie, so to speak, towards universal healthcare in some form. But it has to be the right plan and maybe we can take a look at other programs in other countries and learn from their triumphs, as well as their mistakes.

We're going to see our friends this weekend, maybe the wife for the last time, and I may bring up the FMLA issue with him, if the proper moment presents itself.... I may PM you after that. Thanks.

As I said, please let me know if there is anything that I can do to assist....Honestly, your friend's situation makes me VERY MAD, and I will be happy to help in any way possible....

Have a good night....And you and your friend are in my thoughts and prayers.

Remember the post where you wanted proof that tax cuts work?

In last night's debate did you catch Gibson's question to Obama? Something to this effect.

"Given that cutting capital gains rates has always resulted in higher revenue collections for the Federal government, why do you propose raising these rates when over 100 million Americans own stocks?"

Obama-"I want taxes to be fair"

FAIR? That's it??

Notice he never defined fair. If fair is enough to pay the bills, let's cut the spending on both sides of the aisle and scale down Iraq and forget socialized health care.

What a lightweight answer!

Now I await your usual accusation that I love Rudy or some such nonsense.

Stop the Torture (of the American people)

"If fair is enough to pay the bills, let's cut the spending on both sides of the aisle and scale down Iraq and forget socialized health care."

Agreed.

No accusations.

What a way to go.

Cheers

Kevin "Hack" King

In Fairness to Obama, I just got the transcript of Clinton's comment on the above :

MR. GIBSON: I'm going to go to a commercial break. But I just want to come back to one thing you said, and I want to be clear. The question was about capital gains tax. Would you say, "No, I'm not going to raise capital gains taxes"?

SENATOR CLINTON: I wouldn't raise it above the 20 percent if I raised it at all. I would not raise it above what it was during the Clinton administration. [N.B the capital gains rate was 28% when Clinton entered office. The GOP Congress forced him to cut it to 20% in 1997.]

MR. GIBSON: "If I raised it at all." Would you propose an increase in the capital gains tax?

SENATOR CLINTON: You know, Charlie, I'm going to have to look and see what the revenue situation is. You know, we now have the largest budget deficit we've ever had, $311 billion. We went from a $5.6 trillion projected surplus to what we have today, which is a $9 trillion debt.

Conclusion: Both of them can't get it that when you cut the cap gain rate you collect more revenue
Stop the Torture (of the American people)

" [N.B the capital gains rate was 28% when Clinton entered office. The GOP Congress forced him to cut it to 20% in 1997.]"

SDG, would that be suggesting that all good out of the Clinton Presidency came from the Republican Congress? Or was it a democratic president actually working WITH legislators form the other party? I would have loved to have seen that out of GWB. Honestly, I would have. So many opportunities; so many veto threats. Soo much grand standing (on both sides.) And nothing gets done. Where has leadership gone?

Kevin "Hack" King

You know beeps, I could flood these blogs with links to liberal websites, much as you do with your daily (sometimes twice daily) links to extremist rightwing sites.

But I don't. I recognize that there are many people here who do not share my political views, and frankly I believe it would be inappropriate and just plain rude to force extremist sites down people's throats, especially with no original thought accompanying it (in other words, "Hyuk hyuk hyuk take a look at this!") I wouldn't expect you to visit (much less agree with) a site like DailyKos, do you feel we should visit partisan sites like Fox?

You and beaver obviously feel otherwise. Since you obviously have no respect for any opinions other than your own, why should we in turn respect yours?

Your near-constant daily dribble of link drivel is tiresome and boring. yeah, yeah we get it already: you don't like Jeremiah Wright. Fine, we understand that. Is it necessary to post FIFTEEN separate blog entries to express your dislike?
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Diagnosing Denise

I kinda like the name beeps, I may change to beeps so you can get my name right- just a thought- then you would call me something else, that's your style. It's rather funny to see an adult doing that.

Go for it post all the liberal things, I could care less. I only read what I want, why don't you do that so it won't upset you.

I told you I won't stop post until Obama cuts ties from BLT-

Plus, isn't this suppose to be about our opinions?

Sad, some can't be civil and respectful. Everyone should say what they want if you disagree, say I disagree and go on and quit acing like 6 years olds. But, you drag it on and on and on. I think everyone is older than 6.

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We Will Stand

I like it too! And you don't even have to change your moniker. Leave it as BPR and we can call you Beeps or Beeper. Hope your having a great afternoon.

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The Sissy And The Word Defined

I have decided on BPR, that's who I am- plus that is the way it will stay always. If someone calls me beeps or beeper they are not responding to me, I won't reply. So, if anyone wants me to read their post to me, it needs BPR or I won't read it.

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We Will Stand

If I change it. it will be beeps- that's cute. I have to thank Skyspy for that. Thank you Sky it's nice to beep at you.

I haven't made up my mind theres alot of name calling on here, they would get upset and call me something else. Honestly beeps is cute.

Have a nice afternoon.

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We Will Stand