We already have alot of hand out to people that if they worked they would not need my piece of pie. The answer is get a job, pay for you own health insurance. My husband pays for ours, any good parent would do that.

The piece of the pie that you talked about does not have to do with giving more pie for people who don't want to be responsible. That is a shame, parents that don't care enough to provide insurance for their kids.

No, I don't want to pay for everyone's health care. Since you don't mind you give them all of your pie.

The things you said above are already taken from our pie.

Obama wants more pie for health care for everyone. That is not the answer. Why don't we all quit our jobs and get hand outs from the government.

BTW the war on terror will continue, don't think for one minute that something else won't happen in the future. So, if we give free health care to people that don't care to work, where will we get the funds to protect our Nation?

BTW President George W. Bush has done a great job. I can't think what shape we would be in under Mr. Global Warming.

I thought Obama was poor- huuum poor guy can't hardly pay for piano lessons. I thought his pastor was poor also, wow that house he is building- yeah they are giving away alot of their pie. Obama under 1 percent?

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We Will Stand

I miss Saturday's sun though

"We already have alot of hand out to people that if they worked they would not need my piece of pie. The answer is get a job, pay for you own health insurance."

BPR, how do kids under 12 or incapacitated folks "get jobs" to pay for their own health care? How about widows and single parents of very young children who have to choose between minimumwage jobs and child care? Are they all just dead beats in your eyes?

cheers

Kevin "Hack" King

Can you tell me Obamas plan for health care coverage? How much is this going to cost me a year to provide insurance for someone else?

Will the health care cover only a certain amount for doctors and hospitals?

Will it provide for medication insurance or do we have to pay for that also?

Will it provide for dental insurance also? Will there be a limit?

What about the illegal people that are here already, we don't refuse them treatment, will we have to provide for them also? They are not refused treatment.

If I decide that I can't afford my insurance will they provide the insurance for me?

What about the elderly people will they provide more coverage so they don't have the burden of having to pay when they can't?

Are there some dead beats, yes and you know it. People who just don't want to work- are they going to get health care coverage also?

We already give alot of assistance to people. Why should the government tell me I have to take on their responsibility when I have my own to take care of.

I don't recall Obama explaining any of this to us. I do remember Hillary trying for 8 years to come up with the health care solution, and she never did.

Obama has alot of explaining to do before I buy his health care plan.
He still would not get my vote until he cuts ties with BLT.

Yes, I had a nice day giving the kids their huge pie.

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We Will Stand

Bpr you are difficult to understand!
You say you don't want to pay for other people's health insurance, but then you say that they aren't refused health care now!
Don't you know that we all pay for that un-refused care now? Nothing is free!
It doesn't matter whether the taxes we pay, or the insurance we pay, covers insurance for those without any; it is all included somewhere.
Maybe only those making a lot of money ought to have to pay for their health care? Will you buy that?
I think people used to just die when they got sick---say about the year 0033. Never heard of any hospital, and physicians were equipped with no real medicine or instruments. Is that the way to go?
If a Mexican stops at the emergency room with a broken arm from picking beans shouldn't we simply immediately bus him to the border and kick him over?
Then how will it be done?
It is simple; very much like most of the rest of the world does it where medical workers don't get rich and medicine is cheap, and you may have to helicopter to a hospital that has what you need instead of every county having several hospitals, all with the same equipment and doctors.
We have made an economic industry out of health care and that costs money. However right now only a few of us can get what we want where we want it--just what is barely necessary in some cases.
It is inhuman not to treat all, regardless of their status.
If we don't there will be riots someday, just as there would be if we ran scarce of food!
Sometimes we must think further than the end of our nose!

Please read Sky's story about Universal Health Care. That is sad.

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We Will Stand

I read it BPR.
A couple of people's opinion means little.
One can find as many sad tales like that right here, right now if you just ask.
You read or watch "Sicko," a more comprehensive problem with what we have now!
It has to change greatly. We have scores of millions of baby boomers from after WW2 coming into social security and Medicare soon.
America can't stop treating poor people and ignorant people!
It is stupid to say, "let them eat cake," as the French woman said to Napoleon.

Thank you Sage you just called my nephew ignorant. Wow, how nice of you. Yes, he works, he does not stay home and expect the government to keep him up. How much is Obama's insurance? I don't think government told us they would take care of all of our problems, did they? Oh, I am sorry Obama did.

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We Will Stand

Obama's Health Plan

Basically, if you are fortunate enough to already have medical coverage, absolutely nothing changes except your premiums will go down.

People without health insurance will be offered the plan that is currently offered to members of Congress.

Nobody can be dropped for pre-existing conditions.

I LOVE the proposed "Grubby Herman Cain" rule! You'll recall Grubby Herman once bragged about NOT providing health insurance coverage to his employees (and God punished him for his hubris by giving him the physical rot of colon cancer to complement his spiritual rot). No more! Companies can either provide some sort of health insurance or the government will provide it for them and bill the company for the premiums.

The plan is admittedly light on specific details, Democrats learned their lesson after 1992 when Republicans nit-picked Hillary's plan to death. Obama said it would be up to Congress to provide the specifics.
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Diagnosing Denise

Yes, the plan is very light on specifics. As such, it reads like a piece of wishful thinking.

Here is my current retirement plan. My aim is to retire by the time I am 55. I will purchase a comfortable home somewhere on the south Atlantic coast and divide my time between kayaking, surfing, and writing best-selling novels.

The plan, of course, requires my winning the lottery at 54.

Honestly, his "plan" reads like the worst sort of stereotypical political rhetoric that appeals to present felt needs of the public.

Guaranteed coverage for everyone (Sounds wonderful. My daughter and her family are currently uninsured even though her husband, who has started his own roofing company, spends his days in dangerously precarious circumstances.)

No one denied coverage for preexisting conditions (Terrific! My wife and I both have "preexisting conditions" and I worry about what would happen if I lost my job and fell thus between the insurance cracks.)

But I see nothing about how it is supposed to WORK. Many of us hate the IRS and thus find the basic idea of the Fair Tax attractive. But the plan has to be feasible.

Further, as I have said in more than one post, the push for universal health care appears to assume that access to health care is a natural right. And this implies that anyone who currently cannot afford coverage is literally done an injustice. What is the argument for that? I just have not heard it. I am certainly more than willing to entertain it. I do think that it would be a good thing, all other things being equal, if people who are not now receiving adequate health care were provided with such care. But one can think of many things that would be nice.

And there is simply a difference between saying It would be a good thing if Jones were to provide assistance to Smith and Smith has a right to Jones' assistance. This is the difference between benevolence and justice.

I wonder what the topic would be?

One day, when I'm left stranded on a desert island, with only a laptop and no WiFi, I'm going to write a novel or two. What are you planning on writing about?

I just have a hard time staying motivated. I'm sort of into immediate self gratification. Thats hard to do, when you are writing for months and no one reads your work until you are done. Of if you let them read it, then, their advice messes up my brain, and I can't continue.

I have two books, one a novel, the other a self help book I'd like to write.

The first deals with a serial murder case, from a criminal defense perspective. I have a tale that would be very unique and interesting. Still working on the plot problems that I can't figure out yet. I need to make it believable or there would no catharscism (sic).

The other is an online book of Ephiphanies. I thought creating a blog or online wiki, where visitors could post their own Epiphanies, that it might help others with their problems. I find that I'm pretty thick skulled, and I tend to have a slow learning curve. Sometimes it helps to have a 2x4 slammed against my skull to make me see a truth or wisdom that I was blind to. So in learning about other's epiphanies, I might learn more about myself.

Oh well, Good luck at the Doctor's office. Hope you don't wait too long.

And finally, I must figure out how to end a sentence without the use of a preposition. I won't be a good writer, until I figure how to.

I'm going to buy a trailer and live on the beach. About Obama and Hillary's plan for universal health care; since there is no real national ID system how would one separate those that should get this free health care from those that shouldn't?

BTW, how is Lynn?

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You don't get it!
The word is "Universal."
ANYBODY is treated when sick, anybody.
It is like FEEDING anyone who is starving!
There is a second side to this however: Jobs are provided for everyone able to work---EVERYONE.
This retirement crap at 40 something would be out.

OK.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

There just seem to be many practical problems that I have not seen addressed satisfactorily. I guess we'll see.

Thanks for asking about Lynn.

We head to Emory today for some testing (which does not sound fun) and then an "appointment" with the surgeon. Only trouble is, this is his surgery day and he is not normally in the office. This means we'll like sit in his waiting room for hours waiting until he can rush over in between surgeries. Last time we sat there for over four hours.

Will be thinking about Lynn today. Hope reports are good.

Will be thinking about Lynn today. Hope reports are good.

health care cost in the US represents 16% of our GDP and growing. So we are going to add more people to the scheme and the cost will go down. Perhaps under Obama's and Hillary's plan will see wage and price controls in that industry. Gee, didn't Nixon try that?

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

I don't know if people will buy into that.

Wow, people thought they were going to get free health care???? Really the people I talked to think they are not going to have to pay anything. What if they can't afford anything?

It does not go into detail what is the coverage for certain things and the cost, the doctors you have to see, co pay, deductible etc.

I assure you my insurance is great- yes we pay for it and I thank God that my husband works hard to care for his family- our coverage is great also.

I will inform these people you will have to buy your insurance and who knows what the coverage is?

I suggest you read what Sky wrote to me.

Insults to Penguin: may I ask what has Penguin done to you for you to be so mean? Are you that unhappy that you take it out on other people? That is sad.

You have never met Penguin, both my husband and myself have. I assure
you he could date anyone he wanted to. Also, I know his dad is proud of him!

I don't dislike you, but you throw insults left and right at everyone but let's see your little group. It can't make you happy or feel good about yourself, so why do you do it?

I can't dislike you, I feel sorry for you.

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We Will Stand

I don't know if people will buy into that.
I don't know if they will, either. I do know that the status quo is unacceptable. Good people denied health care in the richest country in the world is a travesty.

Wow, people thought they were going to get free health care???? Really the people I talked to think they are not going to have to pay anything. What if they can't afford anything?
Good questions. We'll have to see what Congress comes up with.

It does not go into detail what is the coverage for certain things and the cost, the doctors you have to see, co pay, deductible etc.
I discussed this in my post above.

I assure you my insurance is great- yes we pay for it and I thank God that my husband works hard to care for his family- our coverage is great also.
I'm happy for you. Really I am. And I pray your husband is not laid off and you are forced to do without insurance

I will inform these people you will have to buy your insurance and who knows what the coverage is?
You do that.

I suggest you read what Sky wrote to me.
Skyspy writes a lot to you. anything in particular?

Insults to Penguin: may I ask what has Penguin done to you for you to be so mean? Are you that unhappy that you take it out on other people? That is sad.
Now if you look at Penty's initial post to me, the little boy has been gone for months and his first post back....his first post back!...he calls me "vile" and "evil". You think I should sit there and take that sort of stuff from an "Internet Tough Guy"? He seems to trust you, maybe you can help him work up enough courage to meet me face to face.

You have never met Penguin, both my husband and myself have. I assure
you he could date anyone he wanted to. Also, I know his dad is proud of him!
I want to believe you, I really do. He strikes me as an opinionated little boy with little idea of how the real world works.

I don't dislike you, but you throw insults left and right at everyone but let's see your little group. It can't make you happy or feel good about yourself, so why do you do it?
You have to understand that there is a little group here, and sadly you are a charter member, of people that have no respect for any opinion other than their own. Denise is of course your ringleader, but she has an excuse, being she is mentally ill. That's not meant as an insult, I truly believe Denise has major issues with her mental health.

Your own "little group" has a tendency to throw insults as well. I noticed just yesterday you were once again questioning whether I knew what a Christian was and you also insinuated that I was logging on as Main Stream. So please don't do your "holier than thou" routine around me (unless you are bi-polar and off your meds...then you couldn't control your actions)

I can't dislike you, I feel sorry for you.
Seriously, I don't like you or dislike you. I have no strong feelings toward you either way. I don't want to sound condescending, but I truly think you are not a very intelligent person, given the quality of your responses here. I don't feel sorry for you, but I do feel sorry for the child you homeschooled, given your profound ignorance you've shown on a great many issues here.

I also want to say for the record that you are the sorriest excuse for a Christian I have ever met in my entire life. Your lack of compassion for your fellow man contradicts the teachings of Jesus in so very many ways.
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Diagnosing Denise

Sniffles to BPR:
Seriously, I don't like you or dislike you. I have no strong feelings toward you either way. ............

I also want to say for the record that you are the sorriest excuse for a Christian I have ever met in my entire life.
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Gee, what do you say to people you dislike and have strong feelings against? "Sorriest excuse for a Christian I have ever met" seems about as over-the-top as it can get.

I'm sure Cal and crew realized that a public forum was going to be somewhat of a free-for-all, but it's probably time for some heavy handed moderation before it becomes any more devolved into a joke.

First, I have never home schooled my child. Ha. That is how much you know about me.

I did go back and read Penguin, you and Main, you were saying things to him what did you expect? That your the only one that can defend yourself?

I'm not intelligent- Ha- That is funny also. You don't know me.

Okay here is your chance: What is a Christian-

Sniffles it's okay: AGAIN I can't dislike you. You have value. So, that means I like you regardless of anything.

So, since Densie has a belief system like mine- you think we are mental. That is so funny. Honestly- I am not taking this to heart- that is funny.

Even if you just told me off - I answer to God - compassion well I must say you certainly don't know me at all. You see that is my strong point I can still feel for people and care. Even when they tell me off. It's okay.

Be sure and read Sky's response to Universal Health Care- I find it sad.

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We Will Stand

Why the vinegar/pickle juice cocktail? What is going on? I met a nice normal person at breakfast, but some of your last posts aren't that same guy. Can't be.

Anyway, I stuck my nose into a conversation that BPR and penguin were having about unversal health care.

I have first hand knowledge that it is not working at all. People are dieing in England because of delayed care. When I went to school in England many years ago I stayed with 2 different families. While I was there I saw first hand how "government health care" works(???, eyes rolling )

First of all each town is assigned a "slot time" for when the government Dr. will be in office in their town. In Benenden that was from 4pm to 5:30pm. It was first come first served. If the Dr. didn't get to you, you had to come back and try your luck the next day. There was a "private" Dr. in town that you could make an appointment to see for cash up front.

The mother of one of the families I stayed with was having a lot of pain and an x-ray showed a large mass. She was on a waiting list for 3 months to have surgery to remove it only to discover that it was cancer. Delayed care almost cost her her life. The care is delayed because of lack of money, and lack of people who want to be Dr.s for little money.

Just before christmas last year the dad in the other family I stayed with was diagnosed with cancer through biopsy. Just last week he came up on the "list" to start chemo and radiation treatment. He only came up this fast because his daughter in-law works at the hospital and pulled a fast one to get his name up more quickly.

Things have continued to get worse there, because the people that do work are having a hard time supporting the many who do not. There is not enough money to go around. My fear is that the same thing would happen here.

I think the only thing we are rich in, in this country is arrogance and debt. We owe china a lot of serious jack. They use the dollar for toilet paper in most countries now. Not good.

I don't think there is an easy answer on this one. Have a good night.

Are you still on your vacation? I would love to have a month off.

For what it's worth, the Canadians also have socialized health care, but it seems to work better in Canada than England. I lived in Canada for 4 years, while I was in the Air Force, and we shared the same medical facilities as the locals. It seemed roughly comparable to ours in quality, although there was a bit more wait time.

Skyspy, I don't doubt your account of the British system at all. Maybe the Canadian govt puts more money into the system than the British, I don't know. It may be that the Canadian economy is stronger than the British economy. If so, then our system would probably be more like the Canadian system. Of course that depends on the politicians and what program they actually implement.

My first-hand information is about 20 years old, so it may have changed in the meantime. Anybody know any Canadians at present, or have any recent medical experiences in Canada?

I've had two clients from Canada (with children here in Fayette) come down this year for financial services.

They tell stories that sound just as bad as anything in England. They both had a close friend who died while waiting for surgery and both knew people who drove across the border, paid cash, and had the same surgery within two weeks.

We've got some problems to be sure, but no one will be better off if we bring that kind of a system here.

I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born.~Ronald Reagan
This is the way to blog!

Paul, I don't doubt your story for a moment, but I just talked to a co-worker who is from Canada, but moved here recently with her husband. She said she was perfectly happy with OHIP. That's the Ontario Health Insurance Plan, and it's the same plan that I remember from when I lived in Ontario. (For those of you who are not familiar with Canada, Ontario is a province, which is the same as a state.) Anyway, the impression that I get is that if you have the usual "common" illnesses, then OHIP works great. My family and I were in that category, which is why I had a positive impression. I think our US system works better for the serious stuff that requires expensive state-of-the-art treatments.

However, my understanding is that we could have both systems. Why not a government plan for people who can't afford their own plan? Better a plan like OHIP than no plan at all. What are your thoughts on that?

I don't know if you remember the guy a couple of years ago who did "Supersize Me". He ate nothing but "McDonalds" food for some period of time, and naturally gained a bunch of weight. Well, the same individual (Morgan Spurlock) also did a TV series where he lived 30 days on minimum wage. He almost made it, but got a minor injury about 3 weeks into the 30 days which required him to go to the emergency room. He didn't have any medical insurance, and the bill came to several hundred dollars, which broke his budget for the month. Here's an excerpt on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkEsLNctVZ0

For him, it was a disappointing failure, but for a real family on minimum wage, the same setback would result in bankruptcy, perhaps the loss of everything they own.

My point in posting this is that nobody wants to trade their top-notch health plan for a mediocre government plan, but there are millions of people with no health plan at all. I think we need something for them. It doesn't have to be "top-notch", where money is no object, but they need basic health care even if they can't pay.

My wife works at the Federal Reserve downtown and they used to have an economist from Canada visit them regularly, this guy was suspected of having cancer but by the time he was able to get a test for it he had it so bad it was terminal. I don't know if that's how it works all the time, but I do know he had to wait a long time to have his tests done and it killed him.

I yam what I yam....Popeye

That sounds a lot like what Skyspy described, so my experiences are probably somewhat out of date.

a person working for minimum wage in GA ($5.15 incidently) working 40 hours a week for 52 weeks who has to pay for his/her own health care (roughly $1000 per month from a private carrier) could not afford health care since he/she would only make $10,217 before taxes. Oh, but who works for minimum wage any more. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Since I found out Obama's health plan- how much will that cost? Can they afford that?

I hope you pay your people more than that. Do you offer them health care?

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We Will Stand

I have no people and barely make enough to cover the cost of health care, thanks. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I guess Obama is your answer.

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We Will Stand

trivializes the problem. The answer does not lie with one person, but a society that must decide where to allocate its resources. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

Maybe we will understand what OBAMA is going to do when he gets in office, he hasn't told us yet. I want to know before I vote for someone.

What if people can't afford the insurance OBAMA is talking about? What good is that.

By what Sky described I don't buy it. What good is it if you have to wait so long and you have a terminal disease, by the time they could get to you well you could die, I find that sad.

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We Will Stand

Of course, I already told you your answer is OBAMA. Maybe we will get to see what wonderboy does, while we pay for it.

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We Will Stand

Go to the BCBSGA website, and price out coverage for a family of 4.

I did and found that all but three of the plans are under $1,000 a month. Where did you get that figure? Keep in mind, this quote is from one carrier only.

This example was based on a family of four - Husband age 40, spouse age 37 and two children. For coverage to be over $1k, you need deductibles that one would receive on a group benefit plan. Further, no government assistance is available for this person, correct?

Just going by what I pay. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

to care for his family. Lots of people work really hard to care for their families, but alas they still lack basic health coverage. The working poor in this country work jobs that you cannot imagine doing, at considerable cost to their health, and often have no coverage and no money to pay for a private plan. Moreover, you seem to be blissfully unaware that private insurance companies have the right to turn you down for coverage due to preexisting conditions or to rider those conditions for life. For example, my son and I have a policy with a $10,000 annual deductible. However, this policy will NEVER cover allergy or asthma related problems for my son, or cervical cancer or thyroid problems for me. If my son had an asthma attack and was hospitalized, I would have to pay 100% out of pocket. Children should be afforded coverage, period. And trust me honey, I work hard to care for my family.

Many people still do not know what "hard work" is. To some it is having to go in every day. Even sitting at a desk is hard work!

Yet they seem to have the best health insurance.

Want to ride a garbage truck from daylight to dark?
Want to mow lawns in 100 degres all day?
Want to lay asphalt on the road in 100 degrees plus 140 degree asphalt?
And so......much of the time with NO or POOR health insurance.

What "working hard" means is I have a pie job, you don't!

but our insurance was obtained after we contacted the Insurance Commisssioner's office. They had a program that requires all the insurance companies that are in Georgia to be on a list and people that inquire about not being able to obtain health care are given a insurance company on the list (we were given BCBS)and it is required that they cover you and your family. The deductibles are high, but our son's heart condition is covered and any of our other health problems are, too. Contact them and see if you can get coverage under this program. We sacrifice and pay out the ear for it, but we are covered for our illnesses. Hope this helps!

My comment was not to insult the hard working people. It was for the people that I don't want to pay insurance for that don't want to work at all but have another thing the government gives them free.

I am aware there are people that don't have insurance. My family growing up had a period in our life when we didn't for a while.
During this time, I developed kidney stones- of course the hospital took care of me. When they found out our condition 4 kids a hard working dad and mom they took care of it. They had people that had given to the hospital for situations like this. We were blessed. I know this is not everyone's situation.

I do feel for you, I am not a heartless person- going though what my parents went through was not easy. Also, my sister developed arthritis during this time , my sister had alot of doctor visits and alot of hospital visits which they had to make payments on constantly. This situation the hospital did not take care of it, maybe because she was in and out of the hospital alot. We made the payments and until today I don't know if they are paid off. You do the best you can.

Read Skyspy reply to me about Universal Health Care.

My heart breaks for hard working people that go through things- my family was one of them.

I am talking about people who don't want to work, or don't care enough to provide insurance if offered to them by their work- yes I know some that take the risk and don't pay for the insurance.

You are in my prayers.

My sister can not get insurance- so do you think Obamas Universal Health Care in her situation would work? She pays out of pocket and will never be out of debt. Alot of people are in this situation.

I am sure that you work hard- and I am sorry for your situation.

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We Will Stand

Nobody knows the details. I think it's just political pandering.
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Sniffles and Sage knows all about Obama's health care. Read what Sky wrote to me about Universal Health Care. Now, that is sad.

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We Will Stand

I;ve been thinking and praying for you and your family and sister. I am so sorry you have to go through this. Hope you are doing okay. Tug was asking about you earlier.

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We Will Stand

Thank you.

I yam what I yam....Popeye

While we discuss the issue about providing care to kids and others, what's the solution for medicare?

Medicare, the other Scheme
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Maybe they need this kind of pie?

LINK

They can give away all of their pie, but they'd rather the government take yours away. Hack must not have read The Little Red Hen. He thought that Chicken Little was a hare. He must not have read much as a kid.

I think they are talking about that kind of pie, it goes good with coffee. Sniffles was so worried about the kids- wow he does not know me too much. They even got to pick their flavor. I taught them better matters than to get it everywhere also.

They want the whole pie anyway- let's give it to them. I'm sure they would enjoy that.(You're too funny) They can't be picky about flavor, I'm on a budget. The kids ran up the cost of the pie because I let them pick their favorite one.

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We Will Stand

you still up??!!

good question you pose... I would gladly divert my pie to education, health care, assistance for the homeless and mentally disabled who wander our streets, plus a number of other programs that would make our country a better place for all to live.

Only in a perfect world, would that happen though.

Hey - go to bed! Later dude....

You are so funny.
Wow, you and Main are up at the same time and online at the same time.

Don't worry I already gave our kids a bigger pie than mine- if you need some pie ask Hack he won't mind, or when Obama gets President he will give you a piece of our pie.

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We Will Stand

Duuuudeee.

Dude!

DUUUooooUUUDDEEE?

Duuuuddeeeeee....

Go to bed! Breakfast Tue?

Kevin "Hack" King

left keep the strangest hours.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.