The soft underbelly of school vouchers exposed — An Opinion Column

Mon, 03/31/2008 - 3:57pm
By: Cal Beverly

[A rebuttal letter follows this column.]

A Column of Opinion — I’ve voted Republican for a quarter century, but I’m wishing I had some choices other than loony Democrats and hardcore “looking out for number one” Libertarians.

Latest exhibit: Senate Bill 458. Here is where ideological theory got pounded by political reality.

And its aftermath demonstrates how our GOP leaders — including senators Ronnie Chance (R-Tyrone) and Mitch Seabaugh (R-Sharpsburg), who are hard at work covering their posteriors before elections later this year — just don’t get it.

SB 458 started out as a school voucher bill, a GOP favorite. Then theory met the real world.

Clayton County schools face almost certain loss of accreditation this year, leaving thousands of innocent students without access to HOPE scholarships and competitive colleges.

GOP leaders had an “ah-ha” moment: Let’s push this voucher bill through now. Even Democrats will see how kids need an escape mechanism from failing schools.

The bill originally said neighboring school systems “may” accept such fleeing students, depending on space availability.

Sen. Valencia Seay (D-Riverdale) insisted on changing “may accept” to “shall accept” and got her way.

By the way, Seay ostensibly represents a chunk of Fayette County, but she obviously cares not what Fayette voters want. Her allegiance lies entirely within Clayton County borders. Fayette voters — black and white — should remember that next election season.

The bill’s sponsor, Sen. Eric Johnson (R-Savannah), supposedly vetted the change in language with “legislative counsel” and supposedly was told that the change from “may” to “shall” would have no effect on the operation of the bill. Supposedly, receiving counties still would have veto option on incoming students.

Pardon me for a whispered reference to bovine manure.

If the word change made no difference, then why even make the change?

Who was misleading whom with this verbal trick?

And might I humbly suggest that the senators find another lawyer who will correctly instruct them on the very precise legal difference between “may” and “shall.”

Sen. Chance pleads ignorance of the word change in an interview last week with our John Munford. The meaning just slipped right by him, although he is the governor’s floor leader for legislation.

(His latest story is that the amendment to “shall” came as the result of unanimous passage of a “consent agenda” following a recorded vote. I guess you gotta be careful what you are consenting to.)

The Fayette County School System’s leaders clearly saw the implications in SB 458. They mobilized the local media and emailed parents about the pending bill.

Tens of thousands of emails and phone calls later, the senators are spinning a different story, as if the firestorm were caused by “misinformation” or mistaken reporting that unnecessarily inflamed the voting public.

Horse feathers. Somebody is telling a whopper.

The school system and the parents and the news media knew exactly what this “school choice” bill would do, and they rose up against it by the multiple thousands.

In a GOP county, the parents saw that the then-current GOP version of “school choice” would have been a disaster for Fayette County students and taxpayers.

And our GOP leaders in the legislature still don’t get it.

Had there not been an uprising, the “shall” bill would have slipped on through.

And Fayette County schools would be facing lawsuits and court-ordered acceptance of hundreds, maybe thousands, of Clayton students.

Either our GOP leaders — including Chance and Seabaugh — pushed through ideologically driven legislation without thinking through the consequences, or they didn’t understand themselves what the consequences might be for receiving systems.

Either way, they deserve to be taken to the woodshed.

Johnson himself is unrepentant. In a Friday news release, the Senate majority leader said in his op-ed piece, “It’s time for scholarships for children in failing schools ... Hold on, children. Help is on the way.”

Johnson continues, “The legislature is considering a lifeline for the parents of these children. SB 458 would require that the state funding for each child be offered to the parents as a scholarship that can be used to transfer the child to any public or private school that will accept the student. We estimate that the scholarship will be worth about $4,150 in Clayton County. That will cover a significant portion of private school tuition.”

The problem is that the state money would cover only about half the cost of educating a Clayton child in a Fayette school. Who picks up the difference between the state scholarship and the Fayette funding required? You and me, and all other Fayette — NOT Clayton — taxpayers.

Either we cough up more money for unexpected numbers of students, enough new tax money needed to educate all students to Fayette standards.

Or we take away money currently being spent to educate Fayette students in order to spread it around to accommodate the new students.

And that’s the soft underbelly of the school voucher argument.

State funds alone are not enough to educate students attending Fayette schools — or for that matter, most schools.

Fayette taxpayers cough up through local property taxes another $3,500 to $4,000 on top of state money.

It’s that addition by Fayette taxpayers that helps provide a superior education for Fayette students.

So far, all the GOP emphasis has been on allowing students in failing or unaccredited systems to transfer out to neighboring public systems or private schools.

There has been NO discussion on the impact of even moderate numbers of incoming students on the finances of receiving public systems.

And there simply are not enough private school classrooms to accommodate additional hundreds or thousands of fleeing students.

Now we hear (as of Monday afternoon) that the legislature — shocked by the Fayette uprising — has taken public schools out of the mix entirely, meaning that all fleeing students would have to find available private school space to accept them at $4,100 per pupil.

Do you suppose that we might see “voucher” academies start popping up in strip shopping centers, next to the pawn shops and title loan stores, advertising their willingness to accept students for — guess how much — the same amount as the state tuition of $4,100?

What kind of education might students receive from that approach?

The GOP at the Capitol is not legislating; it is flailing, jumping from one shaky position to another, its current substitute for clear thinking.

The Democrats are mired in race-based reactionary obstructionism entirely unrelated to good governance.

Voters need to exercise some quality control at the next election. If only there were any quality, thoughtful candidates to choose from ...

Rebuttal from the Georgia Public Policy Foundation

EDITOR’S NOTE: The following email was received Tuesday afternoon in response to the online version of the above opinion column. It is reprinted in its entirety.]

The concern expressed regarding the effort by the General Assembly to come to the aid of Clayton County students (“The soft underbelly of school vouchers exposed,” 03/31/2008) makes some very dubious assumptions and alarms Fayette County residents unnecessarily.

Not only has the language in the proposed legislation been clearly amended to make acceptance of any out-of-district students voluntary, but the predicted financial impact on Fayette County is inaccurate.

Current Georgia law authorizes the state Board of Education to provide a procedure for a student to enroll in another school system. However, the statute declares that the board of education receiving the student must be “willing to receive and to permit such student to enroll in and to attend the public schools of such local unit.”

State funding always follows students who transfer to a public school in a school system other than their own.

Traditionally, the difference between the state funding and the receiving system’s costs are made up by local funds from the student’s home school system and/or tuition paid for by the student’s family. This amount is often negotiated in a contract between the two school systems.

Therefore, the Fayette County Board of Education is guaranteed the right to refuse admission of an out-of-district student and it is free to require funding (in addition to state funding) that in its judgment is fair.

If Fayette County were negatively impacted financially, it would be because of poor financial judgment and not due to state law.

Scaremongering that would deprive this state’s children of an adequate education is unfair, shortsighted and irresponsible.

Kelly McCutchen
Executive Vice President
Georgia Public Policy Foundation
Atlanta, Ga.

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Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 11:13pm.

Look guy, you can blame Sen. Seay all you want, but your dead blind if you don't drop this one at Sen. Johnson and Sen. Seabaugh's feet. This mistake has to be eaten by our idiot majority leaders, unfortunately.

We were as lucky as all get out that a few people caught this because Sen. Chance was letting it go and Rep. Ramsey's former employer (Sen. Seabaugh) told him to stay out of the way.

Alright Hobbs, if it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it must be our own guys tried to screw us to prove a point on school vouchers. End of story.

Vote Republican


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 7:33am.

I don't mean to suggest that this entire event was Seay's fault. In fact, I tried to suggest that it was beyond her intellectual capacity to have understood what this bill would have done. She even voted against it. No, my point is that the bill was flawed from the beginning, regardless of the changes Seay wanted. From "Shall" to "may" was pointless. It would have still meant a huge lawsuit that would have forced the Rights, that the bill gave those students, into our schools.

I heard about Henry County reps worrying about this bill too, but I never heard one peep from Fulton County.

The blame for the bill laid at the Republican's who were responsible for it. Eric Johnson certainly, but for those that have a special responsiblity in looking after Fayette's interests, well, IT WAS THEIR JOB!

I really don't care that Ronnie is the Governor's point man in the Senate. In fact, Ronnie should give up that job. Perhaps he was too busy doing the Governor's work, to spend the time reading and understanding this bill, before he allowed it to get as far as it went.

It was Ronnie's fault, and Seabaughs, and any other Fayette rep that allowed it to get out of committee without lobbying heavily against it.

Ronnie, if you don't have the time to read the bills that effect Fayette so very much, then maybe you should resign from the resume building job working for the governor, because your first responsibility is not to the Governor, but to Fayette.


cogitoergofay's picture
Submitted by cogitoergofay on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 9:28am.

It cannot fairly be argued that this legislation was very hasty, very sloppy and that bad lawmaking makes for very bad, unpredictable results. While the GOP leadership has already fooled a number of people as to their vision (see Jim Wooten editorial) this is simply poor work. The unintended consequences, which will not be seen on 11 Alive News, might well be a subsequent disaster for Fayette County.

Another point needs to be made for the liberal posters on this site (i.e, Hack, Basmati, etc.). Notice how two conservatives here (Spear Guy and Richard Hobbs and Publisher Cal Beverly as well) take the Republicans to the wood shed. When do you ever see a liberal, Democrat hold another liberal Democrat accountable? I can only remember one time in the last 25 years----- Sen. Joe Lieberman in the well of the Senate rebuking Clinton. Other than that, where was NOW during Clinton's serial sexual assaults? After McGreevey, Spitzer and Stabenow have all had sordid prostitution problems--- nothing but silence from the Dems. In comparable impeachment settings, Nixon is forced out by the GOP leadership. In contrast, Democrats tell Clinton to hang tough because "We have the votes in the Senate. It is close but hang tough."

Congratulations to Cal,Richard and Spear Guy on holding ALL accountable, not just the other side. Richard, we need to stop by and visit you.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 11:56am.

Quote: Congratulations to Cal,Richard and Spear Guy on holding ALL accountable, not just the other side. Richard, we need to stop by and visit you.

I'm beginning to think I better double pad-lock my office doors. I had a visitor come by to say hello, while I was in the dentist chair, so I couldn't say hello.

I wish Cal would drop his pen and paper for a few and consider running for office himself. At the local or State level, he would be a tremendous asset to all of Fayette Countians.

I don't always agree with Cal, but I have to admit, he investigates, he researches and he always remembers to put the interests of Fayette County first. Something our current representatives at the Capital should try doing next time a bill is placed on their desk for their signature.

But alas, I suspect Cal, like most qualified candidates for political office, cares not for the frills of political office. I've always felt a bit awkward around anyone who actually wants to run for a public office. I have a great deal of respect for many of them, but, many seem to be more interested in padding their resume for another future office, rather than what is right for their current constituents.

This current debacle reminds me once again of Oh Brother Where Art Thou?

When Homer Stokes cries out, right before being run out of town on a rail. "Is you is, or is you ain't, my constituency?"

My comment would be to ask our lawmakers, especially our Fayette ones, "Is you is, or is you ain't, Fayette's representative?"

If not, then for God's sake get out of the way and let someone with the integrity to run for your office. If you are, then get your foot out of your mouth, and stop pandering to those that might help your future election prospects, and do the damn job you were sent up there to do, which includes, "Start using your head. That's the lump that's three feet above your ass." (Another quote from another wonderful movie.)


Silence Dogood's picture
Submitted by Silence Dogood on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 12:13pm.

There once was a newspaper man that signed some sort of important document and labored intensely at founding a new nation. Does history ever repeat itself?


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 12:08pm.

Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 9:21pm.

Contrary to what Ms. MuCutchen states, I'd disagree with her in its entirety.

Either she is not an attorney, or she is playing dumb, which is why the legislature needs good attorneys up there.

The General Assembly was going to give the students of Clayton County the "Right" to go to another School, but, we are told to believe, that local school boards had the veto power, and could prevent these students from exercising that newly given right. (I wonder if they are selling ocean front property in Arizona too.) Its smoke and mirrors. There is no way that this law wouldn't have be challenged. I can just see poor students on Clayton Northwest Corner, pouring into Fayette Schools, (avoiding Fulton) and when the FCBOE objected, they would claim racial discrimination based upon basic constitutional protections.

The Government can not be allowed to give the Clayton students the RIGHT to go to another geographically close school, and then permit and "all-white" school board from blocking that RIGHT. Our school board would have to open the doors carefully, hoping to silently avoid detection, by allowing in a few dozen students, and hope it would stop at around 400, but the news will break, and the end would already be written.

This entire law was stupidly written and supidly voted upon. I doubt Valencia Seay was smart enough to understand it, which explains why she voted against it, because it would have given her a front page soap box to preach her racist tants for years to come.

Can you imagine, as a matter of example, if the Government lowered the voting age down to 16, but then said, that if the number of voters in any given precinct is deemed too many, then each precinct or County could refuse to allow the voters under the age of 18 the right to vote.

Throw the entire bill out, and create an easier means by which the voters could recall those idiots on the School Board. And while you're at it, give them the right to get rid of the moron Sheriff, DA and Solicitor General.


Submitted by Jones on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 5:59am.

The forecast for local legislators is partly cloudly with a 60 percent chance of thunderstorms.

The word out of the state education department is both of the guys knew about this bill and they were silent as a favor to senate leader Eric Johnson. Sacrificing the little people to gain favor with the leadership.

Don't you just love how they point fingers at each other over tax cuts too.

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 12:23pm.

Well Said!
Thanks also to Ben, John, and everyone at The Citizen. (Mrs. Beverly too) Smiling

Thank you for reporting all of the news, and keeping us informed about local issues. Most recently SB 458.

BTW I never received a response from Ronnie Chance. Guess a grand mothers opinion isn't important enough. My family and I will remember that on election day Senator Chance. Smiling


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 4:50am.

Sure Ronnie Chance acted like a fool in this one and should be ridiculed and even punished, but before you punish him by not voting for him --- take a long hard look at his district and try to figure out who will replace him if he loses.

We do have district voting at this level of government and I would hate to see some agenda-driven Dem in there. What would have happened last week with the wrong Senator in that seat? Ronnie at least responded correctly after the pressure was applied. Not everyone would have done that.

This is a mini version of all those people who hate Bush. Ask them how they would like it if Al Gore were President on 9/11 and afterwards. Talk about scary.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:14pm.

"What if Gore were President on 9/11 and afterwards?" Well, putting aside for a moment the possibility that a reality based foreign policy may have been able to defuse the pressures that LED to 9/11... for one thing, there would be no "Iran War" draining our economy of the massive amounts of funds that it currently is. Your statements, Mr. Morgan, smack of "Better the devil you know" mentality. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


wulfman's picture
Submitted by wulfman on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:34pm.

Hi Yard,

When did we go to war with Iran?

Haven’t had a chance to pickup the book but I will get around to it.

Wulf


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:39pm.

I, of course, meant the "Iraq War". Thanks for pointing that out. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


wulfman's picture
Submitted by wulfman on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:51pm.

Yeah, I kind of figured.

Wulf


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:26pm.

Did the reality based foreign policy of Clinton defuse the pressures that led to the USS Cole bombing or the embassy bombings?

I yam what I yam....Popeye


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:27pm.

it didn't. But there is hope that it might avoid such incidents in the future. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 3:20am.

"Reality"? Weren't those REAL planes flying into the WTC, Pentagon, & a PA field? And a truck full of explosives that tried to bring down the WTC while Clinton was president? Not to mention the USS Cole and the embassy bombings.

"may" / "might" = reality? Puzzled

I don't have any "faith" in the empty HOPE that Obama offers.

___________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 6:13am.

see Jeffc's post below. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:22am.

"This is a mini version of all those people who hate Bush. Ask them how they would like it if Al Gore were President on 9/11 and afterwards. Talk about scary."

Robert, by so many accounts; including A. G. Michael Mukasey admitting last week that your precious Bush administration "knew that there has been a call from someplace known to be a safehouse in Afghanistan and that it came to the United States." (Salon.com) The ignoring of the Daily Bulletin "Al Qaeda determined to attack within the United States using airplanes." Robert, there is great possibility 9/11 would be just another day in America if we hadn't had such a proven incapable and incompetent administration in place. Do you smell what I'm cookin?

Kevin "Hack" King


Submitted by thebeaver on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:39pm.

If Slick Willie, the "first Black President" wasn't so busy having his dolphin polished by Monica, maybe he would have taken seriously the offer by the Saudis to hand Bin Laden - the mastermind of 9/11 - over to the U.S. But no, Slick Willie would have nothing of it.

Kobar Towers
USS Cole
First bombing of the WTC - All happened under the watch of the Democrats.

THEY DID NOTHING - (except Slick Willie's lame aspirin factory, wag the dog attempt).

The Democrats are responsible for the terrorism that came to the U.S.
Thank God Bush was in office when it happened. Gore would have been too busy counting his carbon credit dollars to care. He would have cited the owners of the WTC for pollution.

Barack Obama is the personification of a wolf in sheep's clothing.

The Perverse Worship of a man

JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 1:27pm.

Is that we are not uneducated and uninformed idiots who are ready to buy whatever it is that you make up. None of what you have portrayed is true.

The Saudi’s never offered to hand over bin Laden. They never had him.

After the first attack on the WTC, four of the conspirators were caught and convicted in March 1994 and two more were convicted in November 1997. They were sentenced to 240 years in prison and are now in Supermax. Because of the investigation, a complete terrorist cell led by Sheikh Omar Abdel-Rahmanand, the blind sheikh” was uncovered and he along with nine others were convicted of "seditious conspiracy".

The Kobar towers investigation, handled by the FBI under Clinton and Bush, came to no US prosecution because neither one of them would pressure the Saudis who still have them in custody.

The Cole!!! You’re complaining about the COLE???

The USS Cole was attacked October 12, 2000 and the official CIA assessment was not decided until March of 2001 when it was determined that al Qaeda had been responsible. Condoleezza Rice testified before the9/11 commission that President Bush hisonself personally decided not to retaliate against al Qaeda because he was, quoting Rice’s testimony here: “tired of swatting flies.”

As to Bush ignoring the evidence, Jamie S. Gorelick, former deputy attorney general read through a full library of the Presidential Daily Briefings for the 9/11 commission and testified that the information in the documents ''would set your hair on fire, and not just George Tenet's hair on fire.” Gorelick said that there had been ''an extraordinary spike'' of intelligence warning about Qaeda attacks in the Daily Brief during 2001 and that ''it plateaued at a spike level for months.''

Gorelick’s comments came a few days before the 9/11 commission released a report finding that Mr. Rumsfeld did not order the preparation of any new military plans against Al Qaeda or its Taliban sponsors during the seven months between his arrival at the Pentagon and the Sept. 11 attacks.

The Bush administration had warning about the 9/11 attack and ignored it. After it happened, they bungled the search for bin Laden and let him get away. Then they misused the intelligence to justify attacking Iraq and wasted 4000 American soldiers’ lives and $2 trillion dollars during which time they abandoned virtually every principle the United States was founded on, welcomed torture and assaulted the Constitution.

And you cheered them on every step of the way.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 1:53pm.

it interrupts the flow of the narrative/mantra. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 8:22pm.

my calendar is filling up rapidly. Email me. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 7:27am.

Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil! Let's just pretend Ronnie never did anything wrong. Is that the way you want it Robert W. Morgan?

There is no hope for the GOP with idiots acting like monkeys in the fold.

Vote Republican


tortugaocho's picture
Submitted by tortugaocho on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 5:30am.

Morgan--- that is the problem.....We don't hold any of these career political hacks accountable. We forgive them. You are forgiving Chance.

Ronnie did not "respond correctly". He made excuses; he massaged; he bs'ed us about this being "part of the process" and he didn't come clean.

How should he have reacted? He should have derailed the whole thing. Scrapped it. Said wait till next year. Instead, he told the Guv and all his party wannabes he could massage it. Sonny wanted a voucher victory so he run for VP and act like Dukakis with the "Massachusetts Miracle". Meanwhile, we get thoroughly gutted in Fayette so these short ball hitters can claim a victory.

You are forgetting the magnitude of his error. Schools are the big reason that most of us came here. With one stupid asleep at the switch move, Chance almost gutted us. Even Chance campaigned on "Education is important." Well, if education is so vital Ronnie what in the heck was he doing while this missile was wistling down on top of Fayette? We felt so hopeless with Ronnie that we had to email and call the Governor.

No, we need to convince pols that we are watching them.


Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Thu, 04/03/2008 - 4:58am.

My point is that if you dump him you are likely to wind up with a bigger fool - maybe even a fool with an agenda like that woman who tried to sneak the "shall" word in.

After all, a candidate for Ronnie's seat only has to live in Tyrone and want to run for political office. Right there you have someone who made 2 bad decisions and then he/she is expected to look out for Fayette County's best interest.

Yes it is better we know what we have and know that we need to watch them, but it is wonderful that they respond when we raise a fuss. Better to have a fool that takes direction than a fool who marches to a different drummer.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:38am.

so let's cut taxes to the tune of $2,000,000,000. THAT is the thinking of our current crop of state legislators. The only good thing about the entire situation is that we are already at the bottom of the educational scale in this country and we can't drop any lower. I can see the headlines now. "Georgia schools hold their own" I am reminded of the coach who said, "I am excited about our prospects for the upcoming season. We were 0-15 last year and have everybody back!" Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


NUK_1's picture
Submitted by NUK_1 on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 8:12am.

GA isn't cheap on spending money for education...the state ranks right in the middle nationally on per pupil expenditures. The tiresome poverty pleas coming from some educators in GA is simply an excuse for a broken system that is failing miserably when there are states spending far less that rank in the top 25% nationally. It's not a lack of money issue in GA.

There are a lot of elements in the blame game of GA public school education, but money isn't one of them. Throwing more money public school's way right now is like a twisted reward for suckitude.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 5:10am.

Hopefully, he's learned a lesson like Bush did (?) about immigration/amnesty. The same thinking goes for voting for McCain (but I'm not letting him know that now so that he doesn't have to work for it). Hillary or Obama as president and another 9/11 attack??? That's a lot to think about and none of it good. Supreme Court nominees, too -- RB Ginsburg or worse. Scary is right.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 5:34pm.

Haven't you noticed the sweetness and light emanating from the Democratic campaigns lately? Don'tcha know a deal has been struck? Forget Ginsburg! Obama is going to need a woman for the Supreme Court and Hillary is going to be needing a job. Sleep well tonight Denise. Pleasant dreams.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 7:26pm.

Exactly which definition did you mean?

- Exhibiting a lack of wisdom or good sense; foolish; displaying a complete lack of forethought and good sense: brainless; empty-headed, featherbrained

- Lacking seriousness or responsibleness; frivolous; so senseless as to be laughable: absurd

- Semiconscious; dazed -- "Someone please call an ambulance. Bring some juice. It there an EMT in the house? Doctor?"

Sounds more like Obama voters to me.

Supreme Hillary? She probably likes the sound of that, but why will she be needing a job? Do the super delegates decide who's senator, too? Back-room deals.... Sad

It's amazing what one can find out at Democratic Underground, isn't it?

And then there's HuffPo:


"Hillary Clinton: Truth or Consequences"

"The Clinton Credibility Gap: More Nixon than Gore " [the inventor of the internet]

One might almost be tempted to conclude that Hill's a Republican, a victim of that "vast right-wing conspiracy." Puzzled

"Watergate-Era Judiciary Chief of Staff: Hillary [who was named after Sir Edmund Hillary Puzzled ] Clinton Fired For Lies, Unethical Behavior"

"Hillary’s Crocodile Tears in Connecticut"

There seems to be a pattern... lying, removing files, cover-up, lying... or hasn't anyone noticed?

"Sweetness and light" (Some people do look better now than when they were younger, and Hill's better than Ruth B., but I wouldn't call either of them "sweet.")

"Light" -- Doesn't sound like the Dem Party to me, although Obama is trying very hard to come across as the Messiah but one that has trouble with the truth. Because I know the Truth, I do have pleasant dreams... and days, too. Laughing out loud


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:12pm.

Hillary and the Supremes. Oh nooooooooooooooooooo.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:34pm.

I'm sure she'll consult regularly with Bill over at the UN to see what international precedents should apply.


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:12pm.

I'm going to write in Sky for President- I was going to write you in for VP, now I think I will write Denise.

______________________________
We Will Stand


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:27pm.

Sky & I like his methods. Laughing out loud


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 6:59pm.

I just had church with Davids Mom- it was good!

I will look into Sheriff Arpaio- thanks for the information.Smiling

_______________________________
We Will Stand


BPR's picture
Submitted by BPR on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 7:18pm.

Sky told me about Larry Elders book- that it is good. I am going to get it tomorrow. Have you read it? Plus, I am going to look for the book Muddle suggested- C.S. Lewis is great- I have not read that one- have you? I am sure it is good also.

My husband is a big Larry Elders fan.

_______________________________
We Will Stand


Spear Road Guy's picture
Submitted by Spear Road Guy on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 7:58am.

It looks like you've been binge drinking with mayor logsdon again. You're the reason the GOP is tanking right now.

No, leaving dirty Republicans in office is not the best way to counter the Democrats. The best way is to find a clean Republican to replace him.

Vote Republican


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 04/02/2008 - 5:20pm.

"sober up," that is. I've never been inebriated. You'd never find me "binge drinking" with Logsdon or anyone else.

Puzzled "You're the reason the GOP is tanking right now." Puzzled

I've NEVER advocated "leaving dirty Republicans in office." Maybe you're the one who needs some coffee. Puzzled

The point was not seeing the forest for the trees: not voting for a Republican, who "acted like a fool... [who] should be ridiculed and even punished" but did eventually respond to pressure from his constituents (action that we fail to use often enough?) -- inaction that would give "some agenda-driven Dem" the district.

"Cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.

"The best way is to find a clean Republican to replace him."

Absolutely! The trouble any more is finding a "clean" politician (R or D) -- one without a lot of warts. Are you running?


PTC_New_Native's picture
Submitted by PTC_New_Native on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 9:43am.

The more I see of the political struggles and "Back Room Deals", the more I understand of the real problem. It is the same with the core education of our children.

If you are unhappy with something, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Clayton County:

1.) Look at what leaders failed you, vote differently.
2.) Take an active role in politics, learn about the candidates.
3.) Our education system is not a Day Care. Education starts and finishes at home. You need to ensure your children are performing properly.
4.) Education is not just an education on how to perform computations or read a book. It includes acceptable social behavior. We are not asking for delineation from your heritage to "White Mainstream", but a good grasp of English and sentence structure will help greatly on interviews and college applications.
5.) Get to know your children’s friends. This will go a long way to ensure they are a productive member of society and not a number in our penitentiary system.

The common thread to all of the above is "You the Parent/Resident".

In closing, if you don’t like something, change it. Don’t teach your progeny, the next generation to "Pass" your problems to someone else.

"An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching."
"Be the change that you want to see in the world."
Ghandi

"A Plan without action is a Daydream
Action without a Plan is a Nightmare"
ME


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 7:08pm.

Submitted by bowser on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 7:58am.

Great job cutting through the manure on SB 458. Much as Johnson and Chance would like us to think otherwise, THEY and the other voucher crusaders are the culprits in this fiasco.

I still think there's a good chance Valencia Seay knew exactly what she was doing when she added her little time-bomb to the bill -- if so I think it's funny as heck how she outsmarted these GOP "leaders." And remember: whatever her motive with the amendment, Seay ultimately voted "NO" on the version of SB 458 that would have required Fayette to take Clayton students. Johnson, Chance and bunch of other Republicans voted "YES." Maybe Chance didn't know what he was doing, but Johnson was totally willing to sell Fayette down the river in pursuit of his voucher crusade.

Forget any more doublespeak or amending. Best thing that could happen to SB 458 at this point is that it just die.

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 6:36am.

Welcome to the party, Cal!
Glad you've come around to my way of thinking!

Cal, maybe you can help. Perhaps in the future you can hold candidates' collective feet to the fire re: vouchers before bestowing the Citizen's coveted endorsement! (Your buddy Dylan Glenn was a fervent school voucher supporter last time around, you'll recall).

Heck, even grubby Herman Cain, who opposed school vouchers all through the 1990s, had a change of heart and began supporting them once he announced his candicacy for the US Senate (his Georgia run, not his Nebraska run). The Repubs have made fealty to the notion of vouchers a condition of seeking office!

It's been interesting watching this political pigpile on Sens. Seabaugh and Chance. I'm amazed at the number of people here who think their legislators read every line of every bill.


Submitted by sageadvice on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 5:08am.

At this point in the problem solving, I have no specific disagreement with your evaluation of the Clayton County school accreditation problems.
There is however many more areas about this situation than you covered.

If we don't want Clayton students here in Fayette schools, what do we want?
If we were paid the full cost of educating them, would we then want the responsibility? I think not! The fact is that we do not want that total integration at all. They are too far behind, and will not release to us the supervision of their children for several generations anyway to bring them up to par.

If the current school board and teachers and supervisors don't come with the students then it will not be acceptable!
Just how are the details to work, anyway? Are we to run school buses into Clayton County? If not how are they to get here? Don't tell me that is their problem!

Are students from Clayton to be failed if they can't pass the grade? How many times before expulsion?
Should we back-off of our expectations of all students so that all can pass? We already are into that pretty heavily!

Private schools can not operate efficiently on half of what public schools cost. In fact they need 50% more!

The state must insist that Clayton solve their own problems, and quit being jelly-bellies to the local management when they are failing.
We are talking about educating the children well, not satisfying minority management and parents.

These children can not be managed similar to other children with two parents, good jobs, and a background of accomplishment. It is not the fault of the children but it is in their management.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 9:00pm.

Quality Education for our Children - As the son of an educator, I understand that our educational institutions are the cornerstone of a better tomorrow.

My response.......BOVINE MANURE!!!

Sorry Cal, I just had to say it. Evil

Here's the rest of little Ronnie's campaign views.

Little Ronnie's Views

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by wheeljc on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 8:12pm.

This has to be one of Cal's greatest editorials. Think it is sad that it had to be written!!

Wonder what kind of homework was accomplished on the overall feasibility of SB 458? If one buys the logic that the 'good senators' were thinking in terms of private schools, then were there sufficient school seats to accommodate the numbers? There are 52,800 students in the Clayton County system. Was ANYONE from the State School Superintendent's office contacted, and if so, what input did they provide? If not, then WHY NOT?? Were the two State School Board liaisons from the Governor's office to the Clayton BOE contacted for their input on SB 458, or was this an idea hatched to make points and add to a reelection brochure??

It does cause one to start asking the question Cal alluded to, "Who do we have in the district that could serve the people's interest in November?" Surely someone can be found!!!

Submitted by Spyglass on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 7:41pm.

Our elected officials did listen. Changes were made. That's one reason I choose to live in Fayette County. The electorate is educated and informed, and is not afraid to get involved.

IF they keep things like this up, they'll be on the outside looking in after the next election.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 7:04pm.

Sadly, the real message here is that the Republicans don't have a spine. They are so afraid of hearing the "racist" word thrown at them, so they wimp out.

The solution (this time) was correct, but will we be able to handle it the next time? I hope so.


Mike King's picture
Submitted by Mike King on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 6:00am.

Mudcat you're right on target in that under the guise of conservatism or republicanism these two have proven they lack spine.

Could it be that as a worm it is much easier to crawl out from under the landslide of criticism? Hey, we get what we pay for?

To Cal-Great article.

Just my two cents worth.


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 7:48pm.

I'm not against the kids. I read the whole thing the state wrote up about complaince and it ..IS... awfull. I think the best thing for the kids would be to throw out the whole leadership. These people are nuts.

The reason I'm against letting Clayton kids in is this. I'm not raising Einstein...I've got one, like most others, that doesn't like school, you put anyone in the room with him that will attract his attention, that he already wants distracted, and he isn't gonna pay attention.

I don't want anyone in the room who is distracting from the teacher...much less a kid who's parents didn't pay their dues...like I did...

Submitted by Treading Water on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 6:03pm.

Let's face the facts - most elected representatives don't READ and UNDERSTAND any bill in depth unless they were involved in authoring it (and then it's doubtful). That's why they have support staff and attorneys - to review, read and analyze these things and give them an FYI if something seems amiss (or might earn them negative publicity). We should be allowed to vote for key support staff as well as representatives, as they likely make 40-70% of the decisions anyway. The politicians are too busy playing CYA games and kissy-face (or back-stabbing) across the isle. It's their job to look good, speak well, and maintain a positive public image. We have ALWAYS elected talking heads. The people that are REALLY capable and qualified for public office aren't pretty enough or can't speak in public without breaking into a nervous sweat (and they aren't running). It has always been a popularity contest, and therein lies the achilles heal of our representative republic. It's this "POP-TART" culture that will be the demise of this country.

I am with you Cal - choices would be nice for a change!!

KUDOS and a JOB WELL DONE to the CITIZEN, FCBOE, TEACHERS, ADMINISTRATORS and PARENTS! Without you guys we would definitely be in trouble!!

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 6:00pm.

And if I were single and you were a woman I'd ask you to marry me. But good grief you sure would make one ugly woman.

Anyways, Great editorial. I agree and thanks for stepping out and writing it. I'm sooooo relieved to discover that I'm not the only one that thinks the Dems and GOPer's we've got representing us (across the state) are a bunch of clowns. This is a bottoms up example that the choices we have for president this year are a perfect mirror of the very issues you address.

You're alright dude. Even if you did attack my smiley's when I went after your boy during that last special election fiasco. Eye-wink
________

The Sissy And The Word Defined


Joyce Beverly's picture
Submitted by Joyce Beverly on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 9:36pm.

There is much to love and respect about this man and it's very satisfying for me when others see what I see everyday.

He is ahead of his time....

and you should hear how he talks about you...


cogitoergofay's picture
Submitted by cogitoergofay on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 10:07am.

Kudos to St. Cal: The Eternal Optimist

Mrs. Beverly:

Yes, your betrothed is a classic. And we surmise that you, likewise, have also brought great things to The Citizen with your journalism and newspaper background.

I have always viewed St. Cal as an Eternal Optimist. A tad cantankerous, yes, but who in their middle age isn’t?

When one looks back on his many courageous, strident stands this SB 458 has to be right at the top along with (for example) the PTC Sewer Deal of 1996. In each case, the newspaper did commendable investigation and provided insightful opinion, even when people of influence stare you down. The paper’s owners, managers and staff deserve praise for “hanging tough”.

It’s hard for you to take these tough stands. No one says thanks. People of standing malign you. But, as the elected official who once cursed the Citizen with enmity proved that your voice is heard, he reached in his pocket for two quarters to buy the paper.

Cheers and the best to you and your family.

P.S. Someone needs to send this Editorial to Jim Wooten.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Tue, 04/01/2008 - 7:28pm.

The paper’s owners, managers and staff deserve praise for “hanging tough”.

You mean "Hanging Tough" like the time Lyn Westmoreland had his Atlanta based big city lawyers send Cal that letter threatening him for the statements that a blogger made? The letter they threatened to sue and further intimidate Cal & Company with? And what did Saint Cal do? He posted the letter on the front page of his paper and in essence told those clowns and Lynn to "Bite It" and "Bring It On".

Another priceless moment in the life of the Citizen.

but I’m wishing I had some choices other than loony Democrats

Tee Hee! Go git em' Sniffles. Eye-wink

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 10:12pm.

Tell Dad I said hey and for zillionth time I would really, really, really like to have Wandra's job. Oh, and mom.... kindly put in a word for me that you think I would make a great supervisor over Munford and Boylan.

With all my love. Your son,

GR

________

The Sissy And The Word Defined


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 6:06pm.

Now that was precious. LOL
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 03/31/2008 - 7:43pm.

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