Political firestorm over Clayton school transfers: 'Shall' changes to 'may'

Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:25pm
By: John Munford

House committee amends Senate bill withdrawing requirement if Clayton loses accreditation; Rep. Ramsey presents 1,500 emails to sway leaders

A Senate bill that would have required Fayette County's public school system to accept Clayton County students should Clayton schools lose their accredited status was dramatically changed at a committee hearing Wednesday afternoon.

Rep. Matt Ramsey (R-Peachtree City) said the requirement was dropped and the amendment has been accepted by the author of the bill, Sen. Eric Johnson (R-Savannah).

Ramsey said Fayette Sen. Ronnie Chance (R-Tyrone) worked with Johnson on the matter Wednesday. Chance ironically had cast a vote in favor of the "shall" version of the bill recently on the Senate floor.

Ramsey said the challenge now is to "be vigilant and make sure it doesn't get amended" by members of the House before the bill is passed by that chamber.

The latest version of the bill would leave it up to the individual school system to determine whether or not to accept Clayton students should that school system lose its accreditation as expected Sept. 1.

"It was something that was kind of slapped in on the Senate's side, but we have addressed it," Ramsey said of the previous version of the bill which would have required Fayette and other school districts to accept Clayton County students if Clayton loses its accreditation.

That requirement likely would have handcuffed Fayette County funding-wise and likely necessitated cutting programs that are currently funded in large part by local tax revenues, according to an interview earlier this week with Fayette School Superintendent John DeCotis.

The requirement of accepting Clayton students also could have put Fayette schools in a real crunch if all of a sudden hundreds or thousands of unexpected students showed up to be enrolled here.

Though the requirement indicated students could be turned away if space wasn't available in the new school system, it didn't say how space requirements would be assessed.

The state Board of Education does keep figures on how many estimated students a given school can accommodate.

The newly-amended bill (SB 458) was approved by the House's Science and Technology Committee and will proceed further in the legislative process with a coming vote expected in days.

***

A spokesperson for Gov. Sonny Perdue declined today to comment on the previous version of the bill, citing a blanket policy to avoid commenting on most legislation until it’s passed by the legislature.

Perdue has previously appointed two members of the state Board of Education to advise Clayton County’s school board on maintaining the system’s accreditation.

Also, Sen. Chance has introduced legislation on Perdue’s behalf that would call for a referendum to be put on the ballot when a school district loses its accreditation. That referendum would allow voters to remove all members of the school board from office and have them replaced by appointees from the state Board of Education.

Then, as each term of the local school board expires, the voters of that district would be allowed to elect a new member according to normal voting procedures.

***

[Editor’s note: Rep. Matt Ramsey (R-Peachtree City) emailed the following statement Wednesday afternoon:]

"Statement on Senate Bill 458

"I am pleased to report that the House Committee on Science and Technology has amended a provision in Senate Bill 458 that would have potentially required school systems to accept students from non-accredited school systems.

"The amended version of the provision is now permissive and says that the receiving school system “may” accept such student, leaving it to the sole discretion of the receiving county, as was the intent in the original legislation.

"As now amended, the county may refuse a student for any reason, and it is completely in the discretion of the school system that would accept or deny such student’s request to attend.

"I spoke in committee [Wednesday] and thanked the chairman and author of the bill on behalf of Fayette County for hearing and addressing our concerns.

"I and several colleagues worked diligently over the last several days to convince members of the committee that this amended provision would have seriously detrimental consequences for school systems forced to accept an influx of students from failing school districts.

"The underlying legislation proposes options for students that are in a school system that loses accreditation.

"Among the options in the original language was for students to attend school in other school systems and it provided that other school systems “may” accept such students at their discretion.

"However, this language was amended on the floor of the Senate, prior to the bill’s passage, to provide that other school systems “shall” accept these students, subject to space availability.

"I am thankful that the House Committee has agreed to change “shall” back to “may” to make crystal clear that the receiving county could refuse students from failing school systems in their sole discretion.

"I would like to specifically thank all the parents that have contacted me and other members of the General Assembly in opposition to this provision. The outcry of our community made it easy for me to make the case that this was bad public policy. I am so proud to represent a district that cares so deeply about the education of our youth.

"We now must vigilantly track the progress of this bill to ensure further efforts to amend this legislation are defeated.

"As a parent of two young children about to start in our local schools, I will always fight to protect the quality of Fayette County’s schools for them and all the children of our community.

"As a product of Fayette County public schools, I believe it is my charge to work to ensure current and future generations of local school children have the same excellent education I was afforded. — Rep. Matt Ramsey, District 72"

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The Dark Knight's picture
Submitted by The Dark Knight on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 2:30pm.

The list below all seem to have voiced concern,

Shelby Barker, luckydog, ptctaxpayer, kjam, poipendicular, Fyt35, muddle, Hey, sniffles5, yardman5508, doglover, veni_vedi_vici_, boxwing, skyspy, sweetpolly, balloonguy, wheeljc, Tug13, Y oh Y, DJS, dwsscs, Buckwheat Rules, PTC_New_Native, Goukalake, ptcgv, Cyclist, ptcmom678, Spyglass, PTC Dawg, Lakey, ynot, CitizenBlogger, poipendicular, swmbo, Hey, hutch866, boxwing, huey_ip, MajorMike, V_O_X, oldbeachbear, Robert W. Morgan, Lakey


Submitted by Lakey on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 2:14pm.

While it's good that SB 458 has been amended to say that schools "may" accept students from systems that lose their accreditation as opposed to "shall", the FCBOE needs to pass a resolution at its next meeting saying the following:

"Fayette County schools are paid for by a combination of state funds and the property taxes of Fayette County residents."

"Access to Fayette County schools is a local issue and Fayette County will not be forced by outside agencies to take any action that does not protect both the quality of its schools or cause additional cost to its taxpayers."

"It is our intent to restrict access to our schools to residents of Fayette County."

"If space is available in our schools, the FCBOE may consider limited transfer of students providing it is allowed to screen with its own guidelines who it accepts, and Fayette County is reimbursed 100% of the actual cost of the education provided."

The FCBOE has to be clear that while we sympathize with the STUDENTS of Clayton County, the accreditation problems in Clayton are the result of the actions of the Clayton County BOE. Clayton County needs to solve its own problems and SB 458 fails to address that need, and actually ENABLES the CCBOE to continue to act in a manner that has caused its accreditation problems.

Shelby Barker's picture
Submitted by Shelby Barker on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 9:55am.

Thanks Matt, once again you came to the rescue. Way to listen to the public!!!

VOTE CONSERVATIVE


Submitted by bowser on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 11:55am.

Mr. Barker, evidently you don't read well.

The "rescue" is an illusion.

The bill still plainly states that Clayton students can attend Fayette schools.

Fayette doesn't have to take them, but once this is in state law do you really believe there will be much choice??

If that is not the intention, why have it in the bill at all???

Your man Ramsey is running in the wake of the GOP big dogs like Eric Johnson who will do ANYTHING to push school vouchers -- including selling Fayette County schools down the river.

VOTE INTELLIGENTLY

ptctaxpayer's picture
Submitted by ptctaxpayer on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 12:37pm.

Agreed---The Law is Bad and Chance is a Shameless Opportunist. Once this bill is on the books it will creep towards bigger problems.

This is all about Ronnie Chance, the career lobbyist/political operative, kneeling at the throne of the GOP slobs hoping he will get something in the future. He didn't even read the bill and didn't figure the annihiliation of our schools and budget that would result. He did what Eric Johnson told him to do.

Had there been no firestorm, Ramsey would have voted for it too. He got spared the buzz saw and may yet avoid the tag of the Georgia legislator with the shortest term of service in history (less than a year). Getting a couple thousand emails made him scratch his head for a second and read a bill for once. Not the case with the insurance lobbyists bills.

Let's be positive, though. Now no one can say that Ronnie Chance never did anything for Fayette County.


kjam's picture
Submitted by kjam on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 8:43am.

Following is a copy of the article printed in Clayton Daily Newspaper this morning:

ATLANTA - Legislation offering state-funded vouchers to students in schools or school systems that lose their accreditation easily passed a House committee on Wednesday.

The bill, sparked by the recent threat to the accreditation of Clayton County Public Schools, already has passed the Senate and could reach the House floor as early as Friday.

The measure passed the Science and Technology Committee 6-2, along party lines, with Republicans supporting it and Democrats voting against it.

The bill would allow students in schools that lose their accreditation or in schools designated "needs improvement" under the federal No Child Left Behind law for seven straight years to transfer, either to another public school, or to a private school.

Legislative Democrats and organizations representing teachers and school administrators have criticized it as another bid by Republicans to promote spending public money on private-school vouchers.

But Senate President Pro Tempore Eric Johnson, the bill's sponsor, said the track record of voucher programs shows that not enough students would take advantage of the transfer offer to affect the public schools they leave behind.

Johnson (R-Savannah) said no more than 5 percent of students typically take part in a voucher program. For one thing, parents are responsible for transportation when a student transfers.

"The purpose of this is not to send a bunch of kids to private schools," Johnson said.

With Johnson's support, the committee amended the bill to remove an amendment the Senate had added that would have required public school districts to accept transferring students.

Sen. John Douglas (R-Covington), whose district includes part of Henry County, said residents there were worried that students transferring in from the Clayton County system would deluge the Henry schools.

"We're facing in Henry County a perception that the dam is getting ready to break and a flood of thousands of students is about to come out of Clayton County," Douglas said.

But Johnson said the amendment approved by the committee would ensure that overcrowded school districts aren't forced to accept additional students they can't handle.

"It is subject to the receiving school, whether they accept any child for any reason," he said.

Johnson introduced the bill last month after the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools put the Clayton County system on notice that the district would lose its accreditation after Sept. 1, unless it fixes nine failures outlined in a report released by the organization.

That recommendation was ratified less than two weeks ago by SACS' national organization.


poipendicular's picture
Submitted by poipendicular on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 11:23am.

Something that has been lurking around the back of my head. These vouchers to be offered, what is the amount? I am assuming if a student comes from Clayton to Fayette, they would bring a voucher to the school, and the amount of money would be the state's share of cost. So that would be about $4-5k? What amount of money would a voucher pay a private school? If the voucher offers the same amount and the tuition is $20k a year, the parent(s) are still on the hook for $15k. If the parent(s) could afford it, they would have sent the children to a private school already,or this might be the extra amount they couldn't come up with. Hurray for those that can afford it. But the majority aren't able to come up with that amount. We are gonna find a lot of Clayton kids applying to our schools.


Fyt35's picture
Submitted by Fyt35 on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 7:45am.

Good job Matt Ramsey! I was glad to take part and send my e-mail to you and many others; you were the only one who took the time to reply!

Education aside, a second front has come up and I knew this would happen. High school coaches across the county, especially in football are salivating at the prospect of bringing recruits into the local athletic programs to shore up their teams. I have heard from several folks already of kids at Lovejoy, Jonesboro and Riverdale being approached, not necessarily by coaches but by “second or third party” individuals.
How sad if this were to happen!


Submitted by bowser on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 6:44am.

Don't be fooled. The bill now greased for full House approval STILL INCLUDES a provision that could result in a lot of pressure on Fayette to accept potentially large numbers of students from Clayton, to be educated partly at Fayette taxpayer expense.

And contrary to Rep. Ramsey's claim, this provision was ALWAYS part of the bill that originated in the senate, sponsored by 6 Republicans who saw a chance to score some points for the GOP's school voucher crusade and were willing to sell out Fayette in the process.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 8:20am.

So, assuming that this foolishness is passed, are there reasonable criteria of acceptance that the Fayette system might establish, in addition to the concern for space? Indeed, if there is limited space and acceptance is made competitive, the Fayette schools could actually cherry pick the best applicants.

* Behavioral record? (No troublemakers)
* GPA or standardized tests? (No deadbeats or "bricks")
* Extra-curriculars?
* Funding? Where would the funds--above those from the state--come from for each student? Wouldn't it be reasonable to insist that, say, the family of any out-of-county student be prepared to make up that gap?


Submitted by Hey on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 10:15am.

Muddle, that makes way too much sense to ever really happen. They would consider it as discrimination.

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 10:47am.

I sincerely doubt that any cross-county enrollment will be merit-based. For one thing, I believe it would be a gross violation of the mission of Georgia public schools, which is to provide an education for everyone. In other words, private schools may have the luxury of "cherry picking" students, public schools do not have that option.

I believe that if this silly law is enacted, we'll see something similar to the M-to-M program that was used as a desegregation remedy until recently. M-to-M was shorthand for "minority to majority", where anyone in the majority race of a school could volunteer to enroll in a school that he/she would be a minority in the same county. Many black kids used this to transfer to lilly-white schools. I am not sure if this was done via lottery or first-come, first-served, but I'm reasonably certain there were no merit qualifications.

If you think about it, cherry picking the best and the brightest of a school to attend another county is counter-intuitive to the ultimate goal of fixing a school system...you don't improve it by removing the best students.

The Clayton Daily News pointed out that any kids would who transferred would be responsible for their own transporation to and from school, and that historically only 5% of the student body ever participated when that condition was invoked. So I think we'll see the most motivated students instead of perhaps the "best".

One thing this law will do will be to remove on to the cherished pasttimes of some of the Citizen bloggers here: namely wailing about how many "illegal students" from Clayton county attend here....they'll be "legal' now.

It'll be interesting to see how the state of Georgia manages to fund this debacle....who will pick up the tab for the 50% not funded by the state? Do we double-tax Clayton (doubtful)? Do we increase taxes on Fayette residents (an outside chance)? Do we cut back further on quote non-essential unquote classes like P.E. and Art and Orchestra? I don't know.


shadowalker's picture
Submitted by shadowalker on Fri, 03/28/2008 - 1:16pm.

Here is a thought, I would push and help fund a lawsuit,
against clayton and or fay county if i start hereing that my tax
dollars are going up for clayton students. that is something that l
for one do not even think is funny to bring up.

I do not have children in school and I am not going to flush more money down the drain for clayton students, Clayton county better wake
up and kick some idots out of there positions and get this crap straight. what are the requirements they need to change are they playing around or working on a fix

shadowalker


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Thu, 03/27/2008 - 6:50am.

one of the fatal flaws of the plan for vouchers...what if a school decides not to accept the vouchers? What criteria are going to be used by the state to MAKE a district accept the vouchers? Cutting students loose is not the answer to the problems that exist with schools. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Submitted by doglover on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 10:45pm.

Citizens of Fayette County - find our who your legislators are and remember this when election time rolls around. Two of our legislators, Ronnie Chance and Mitch Seabaugh voted FOR this bill. I don't know who will be running against those two when election time rolls around, but I already know I will be voting for whoever opposes Seabaugh and Chance. They both need to go. Valencia Seay who lives in Clayton County voted NO. Maybe it is because Seay knows the schools in Clayton County are not the problem - the problem is with the Board of Education that was elected by the voters of Clayton County. Clayton County students would rather stay in their own schools and the students are begging the incompetent Board members to resign. There should be some kind of law that would allow the voters to hold a special election to throw the incompetent Board members out and replace them with qualified people. If the President of the United States can be impeached, then the Clayton County Board of Education should be impeached and a law needs to be enacted to do this.

veni_vedi_vici_fayette's picture
Submitted by veni_vedi_vici_... on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 7:46pm.

Good job Ramsey, but the fight is not over. This bill needs to be defeated totally. Everyone needs to email, call and write to all the reps in the house to back up our Matt Ramsey. Boo hiss to Ronnie Chance. What were you doing when this was voted on? How could you vote yes to the SHALL version? Better pay closer attention to your voting, buddy. We did not send you there to mess up. Does straddling the fence get old?


Submitted by boxwing on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 5:39pm.

The true impact of this bill will be that school systems that border a county system that fails to maintain accreditation will see a tidal wave of new students without the accompanying full funding. This will increase teach-student ratios, increase over-crowding and lower student performance in the receiving school systems. The result will be a “domino effect” where a localized educational melt-down will now become a regional educational failure. This is not a logical solution to the problem.

Rather than simply spread the problem over a larger area to hide its true effects, this bill should promote clear steps to contain and solve the problem at the local county level. The main steps to this would be as follows:

- State takeover of any school system that fails to maintain accreditation.

- Institution of a School Oversight Board by the Governor for a period of three years which will take over the functions of the local School Board. The main goal of this Oversight Board will be to take the hard steps to regain accreditation for the local school system within the three year period. Students retain Hope Scholarship rights while the Oversight Board is in control.

- Once accreditation is regained, an elected local School Board would be reinstituted with limited control. The School Oversight Board would still be in place to supervise the actions of the School Board and have veto power over their actions.

- After a three year probationary period with adequate performance by the local School Board and system, the state School Oversight Board would be disbanded and total control would return to the local School Board.

Such a system would fix the problem, stop its spread to other neighboring systems, and not unduly penalize the students for the failures of the so-called adults who created the problem.

State Sentate and House - Let's solve the problem where it started!

yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 9:40pm.

this is an excellent plan. The number one thing that schools can do to improve education is to lower teacher/student ratios. Of course, with the state reducing funds to education, this all bodes ill for the entire state, not just Clayton/Fayette/Henry counties. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:53pm.

Wow, the people spoke and the politicians actually listened. Is there going to be a blue moon tonight?

Matt could you harold some lessons?

Submitted by sweetpolly on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 5:01pm.

For mobilizing our forces. I received a letter home from my child's school. We were told press releases went to all newspapers. I saw coverage on Fox 5 news last night. Our PTO activated our e-mail trees and I even received a message from my Centennial Home Owners Associations. Thanks for staying on top of this and getting the info to the press in time for us to take action. I'll help anytime. Way to go Matt Ramsey for driving the message home.

Submitted by balloonguy on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:47pm.

Received the following e-mail from Representative Ramsey's office about ten minutes ago:

I am pleased to report that a House committee has stripped a provision in Senate Bill 458 that would have potentially required school systems to accept students from other school systems that lose accreditation. I spoke in Committee today and thanked the Chairman and author of the bill on behalf of Fayette County for agreeing to amend the Senate version of the legislation to address our concerns. The new version of the provision is now permissive and says that the receiving school system “may” accept such student, leaving it to the sole discretion of the receiving County. I and several colleagues worked diligently over the last several days to convince members of the Committee that this would have serious and detrimental consequences for school systems forced to accept an influx of students from failing school districts. I am thankful that the Committee has agreed and made this critical change to the legislation. I would like to specifically thank all the parents that have contacted me and other members of the General Assembly in opposition to this provision. The outcry of our community made it easy for me to make the case that this was bad public policy. I am so proud to represent a district that cares so deeply about the education of our youth. We now must vigilantly track the progress of this bill to ensure further efforts to amend this legislation are defeated. As a parent of two young children about to start in our local schools, I will always fight to protect the quality of Fayette County’s schools for them and all the children of our community. As a product of Fayette County public schools, I believe it is my charge to work to ensure current and future generations of local school children have the same excellent education I was afforded.

Ok, that's good for now. I suppose that the next issue is going to come about when the FCBoe indicates that our schools are full; is there a pool started yet for when the lawsuits are going to begin!

This legislation doesn't need to be amended - it needs to be quashed. It should have been kept in committee. Interesting that it came about what, five days before the General Assembly is due to complete it's session? I've always told my children that timing in life is everything - this proves that adage, I suppose.

Submitted by bowser on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 4:36pm.

I'm glad someone else sees through the doublespeak and blame-shifting going on here.

News flash: all today's change does is revert to the original senate bill, which is what introduced the concept of county-jumping to start with.

Yes, the amendment made it binding by changing a "may" to a "shall," and now it's back to "may" again, but the basic idea that ClayCo students have a right to move to Fayette is still inherent in this bill and it was there from the get-go. And as Balloon points out, just wait til some lawyers get ahold of this squishy language. Fayette will be put on the spot: Take any Clayton kid who wants in or get sued and tried in the media to boot.

But, hey, it's all part of the GOP's Voucher Crusade....and now it's probably greased because today's supposed "fix" gives everybody political cover.

I hope I'm wrong but I think we're getting sold out, folks.

Submitted by wheeljc on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:37pm.

Thanks goes to The Citizen, John Munford and Cal Beverly for expeditiously getting the information out; providing a super platform for discussion/debate and critical/timely phone numbers and Email addresses. Thanks also goes to the community for taking time to ACT!

Think we may have some politicians who may have to answer to actions they took prior to reneging!! Sure is interesting isn't it??????

THANKS AGAIN TO THE CITIZEN!!

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 4:25pm.

Thank you to The Citizen for keeping us informed.

I sent a letter to Ronnie Chance too. Smiling Remember, he voted for the bill. Shame on him.


Submitted by Y oh Y on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 2:47pm.

Changed back to original language that a school system MAY accept vs. Shall accept.

It's not over yet, keep calling and emailling.

Matt Ramsey was at the committee hearing to speak on Fayette's behalf listened to it on the web.

Submitted by DJS on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:28pm.

I understand the difference in may and shall. Both words still allow children to go to a different county school system than that which they reside.

I believe Fayette County and the majority of counties in Georgia would not agree to this Bill in its entirety. This bill needs to be tossed out and not brought up in the House for a vote.

Clayton County should be forced to fix their own problem.

Submitted by dwsscs on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:08pm.

Where did you listen to it on the web? Thanks.

Submitted by Y oh Y on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 3:14pm.

www.legis.state.ga.us

You can watch any hearing of the day. Think of it as G SPAN

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