Police: Dead baby in toilet at Wal-Mart was miscarried at 21 weeks

Tue, 03/18/2008 - 4:25pm
By: Ben Nelms

Fayetteville Police said Tuesday that a human fetus found dead Sunday afternoon in a restroom toilet at the Wal-Mart at Fayette Pavilion was the result of a miscarriage.

The mother, a 38-year-old Riverdale woman, has been located, though her name is currently being withheld pending further investigation.

Police have filed no charges at this point while the investigation continues. Officials said Tuesday the gestational age of the fetus was 21 weeks.

Police Tuesday "received autopsy information from the Georgia Bureau of Investigations. The preliminary information indicated that the 38-year-old mother miscarried after 21 weeks. It was determined that the fetus was not viable."

The incident came to light Sunday at approximately 1 p.m. when officers were called to the Fayetteville Wal-Mart to investigate a possible fetus found in a toilet in the women’s restroom, according to Fayetteville Police Public Information Officer Steve Crawshaw.

Crawshaw said a Wal-Mart customer notified management that there was blood and a clogged toilet in the women’s restroom located in the front area of the store. A Wal-Mart employee was sent to unclog the toilet and found that it appeared to be clogged with toilet paper, said Crawshaw.

While trying to clear the toilet paper the employee saw what looked like a fetus and immediately called 911, he said.

Police arrived and secured the area. A Fayetteville Police Department crime scene investigator and the Fayette County coroner were called to the scene. A fetus was found and taken from the scene by the coroner for an autopsy at the Georgia Crime Lab.

Authorities said Tuesday that the unborn baby was not viable — that is, it could not live outside the womb.

Video from cameras inside the store helped officers determine the identity of the mother, Crawshaw said. Through their investigation, the mother was located, he said.

Crawshaw said that at this stage investigators are not disclosing the mother’s name, and no charges have been filed. They need more information to determine if a crime was committed, he said.

Fayette FACTOR social services collaborative Director Becky Smith said that, aside from live birth, a large range of physical conditions exist in pregnancy that can result either in miscarriage or spontaneous death of the fetus.

Miscarriages occur prior to the 20th week of pregnancy and can be due to a host of factors related to the health of the mother or that of the embryo or fetus, Smith said.

After the 20th week the death of a fetus can be attributed to a variety of physical conditions with the mother or fetus that result in spontaneous death or could occur as the result of an abortion method, Smith said.

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Submitted by Rozi30214 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 10:23pm.

I am sorry that this woman lost her baby but to leave it in the toilet like that is gross.She should have called for help or something. Another reason why Clayton County residents should shop at their own Wal-Mart and stay out of ours.....

Submitted by juliebugsmama on Thu, 03/20/2008 - 11:45am.

Hey ROZI30214, your comment about "Another reason why Clayton County residents should shop at their own Wal-Mart and stay out of ours..." was TOTALLY IGNORANT. You do not speak for Fayette County residents.

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 7:23am.

A premature baby born at only 21 weeks and only slightly longer than a ballpoint pen (see picture) survived, but it is very rare.


"Miracle Child"
born at 21 weeks gestational age (born on 20 May 1987 in Ottawa, Canada) is now 21.

At 21 weeks (second trimester, beginning of the 6th month), the baby measures about 10.51 inches (26.7cm) and weighs nearly 12.7 ounces (360g) (0.79375 or 3/4 lb.). There is also the placenta, which can be about the same size as the baby.

Having a miscarriage is a traumatic experience, especially when the baby is this old. From my experience, many women (especially at 38 years old) would ask someone for help, or at least ask someone to tell somebody what had happened so that the blood and tissue could be cleaned up and not left for the next person to find. Finding a baby in a toilet would be very upsetting. Maternal instinct prompts you to want to do SOMETHING, even when the baby is very tiny and is miscarried during the first trimester. Does the autopsy report indicate if the baby was alive at birth and why it was determined that the baby was not viable? Was the premature birth due to the dilation procedure (insertion of laminaria or a synthetic dilator inside the cervix 24 hours prior to the actual D&E) done before a planned Dilation & Evacuation (D&E) abortion? If this had occurred at a hospital, medical care is required to be given to the baby if he/she showed signs of life. The loss of a life so young is sad.

_______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)


Submitted by IMNSHO on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 10:52am.

many women (especially at 38 years old) would ask someone for help, or at least ask someone to tell somebody what had happened so that the blood and tissue could be cleaned up and not left for the next person to find.

Yep, and what most women would not do would be to go back to work (at a restaurant, no less!) and say nothing, even when her pants are soaked with blood.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 11:38am.

but,none of us know all the circumstances. I can't imagine anything more humilating or degrading than to have a miscarrage in a public bathroom and then have the police after me.

Not everyone does what the rest of us think is right. This isn't a perfect world. She may have been in shock. Sometimes people just feel if they can get away from something, it never happened. That is why unfortunatly, some people do 'hit and run'. They might want to help, but fear and shock take complete control.

sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 7:52am.

"Maternal instinct prompts you to want to do SOMETHING, even when the baby is very tiny and is miscarried during the first trimester."

Reading that above comment reminded me of the old saying "The world is full of unmarried marriage counselors".
___________________________________________________
Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Sissies!


Submitted by USArmybrat on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 10:34pm.

the heart of this mother,if she was in shock from the trauma of this loss or if she didn't care anymore than to just leave the stall with the baby clogging the toilet. I've been an OB nurse and have seen both attitudes in the women I cared for. We probably will never know. I do know that when I lost my own baby in a miscarriage, it was devastating at the time and to this day, fifteen years later, there is still an ache.

Submitted by USArmybrat on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 10:34pm.

the heart of this mother,if she was in shock from the trauma of this loss or if she didn't care anymore than to just leave the stall with the baby clogging the toilet. I've been an OB nurse and have seen both attitudes in the women I cared for. We probably will never know. I do know that when I lost my own baby in a miscarriage, it was devastating at the time and to this day, fifteen years later, there is still an ache.

Submitted by johngeorgejames on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 7:37pm.

Not in a store, thankfully, but I can assure you that pain, confusion and panic are only part of the story. You are told that if you experience any bleeding to contact your doctor immediately. You are not told what a miscarriage feels like (horrid cramps) or looks like (blood clots- much like a heavy period). You are not told how upset you will be- and the fear, for your unborn baby and yourself is unbelievable!
I can't imagine going through any part of this in a public place- that adds the element of embarrassment into the mix.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 8:20pm.

When I was younger, I wanted a house full of kids. That was not to be. I carried 3 till around 5 months, before I scored a home run and had only one child.

I'm old pioneer stock and as the doctor told me, could carry one if I walked across the Pyrenees mountains barefoot in winter. The unfortunate thing is, I carried dead ones. The first time I had no idea, everyone at work kept asking me about the heartbeat. I had no clue, then when the doctors was cornered, he told me it was dead. Twice I had to walk around weeks carrying a dead baby because the doctor didn't want to get in trouble by giving me a DNC. The 2nd time, my x pulled the plug on the doctor. I passed part and went nuts, my ex was 6'3 and big. We called the doctor and he shined me on, my ex took me to his office, told the md's secretary to clear his schedule he wouldn't be there the rest of the afternoon. He made the doctor give me a shot to knock out the pain and the last thing I remember was my ex picking me up and carrying me next door to the hospital. That was before he threaten the doctor.
The last time, I had waited years and then another dud. This time, I was going to a doctor trying to have a baby. This man had so much compassion. Although bringing life into the world was his job, he had the wisdom to not put me through that again and did a DNC. I wish that people would understand the world isn't perfect.

Abortions, DNCs, same thing, are necessary sometimes and people having them are already so hurt. In my case, it was merciful.

I don't know this woman's circumstances, maybe she had a quack too, that put her through hell. But, the kind thing is too not judge her. She just lost a baby.

I can't imagine being in a public place and having a miscarriage, and that is just the position my 1st doctor put me in and maybe her too.

I think she could have been disoriented, at the least, devostated. I don't think I would have come out wanting to tell everone what just happend...I would just want to go home.

I feel so sorry for her.

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 1:20pm.

Bless your heart. Smiling


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 9:38pm.

"Twice I had to walk around weeks carrying a dead baby because the doctor didn't want to get in trouble by giving me a DNC."

You are one brave and strong woman. My heart goes out to you. Thank you for sharing your personal story in such a public forum.

I am curious about this statement you made though? What was that doctor thinking? Was this a long time ago? This sounds like something that would happen in another country where abortions are illegal?


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 10:04pm.

it wasn't a 3rd world county....it was right here in good old Georgia.

I feel it wouldn't have been so bad if people would have let...me and my doctor make the decision...as it was...the doctor took my right to make a decision away from me ...to be correct.

This was back when the mds were afraid...as a result, what was best for me, was trashed. I just hate to see kids/girls now days, trashed by something only God has control over.

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 10:37pm.

I have just never heard of a doctor NOT performing a much needed DNC because the MD was "afraid." It sounds horribly tragic and unfair for you, or any woman, to have gone through this. You have to remember, I am from the west where it is a much more liberal environment, than the deep south. I'm not knocking the south, however, from an 'outsiders' point of view, it is just shocking to say the least.

I remember a few of my girlfriends getting pregnant, back in the 1980's and the healthcare providers were NOT afraid to assist women who wanted or NEEDED a DNC or abortion. One friend who wanted desperately to have a baby had to have a DNC in her first trimester because the fetus just died for some reason. Her doctor performed a DNC almost immediately. That is the proper procedure when this happens during a pregnancy. Your story is shocking to me.

Thank you for your honesty.


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 9:57pm.

But again, that was after the big deal about abortions. People use to call them DNCs. I don't mean to down play people's rights to dissagree with them, but what I'm trying to say is there are very good people who want kids on the other side that need to have abortions. People should give them the right to have them. The other side of the coin is so ugly and hurts. 99 per cent of the people that don't want kids, with everything that is out there, don't have them...There are so many people that want them, can't...

all I'm saying is please don't judge them...

I just want people to understand there are other reasons this may have happened to this woman than that she is a bad person.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 9:49pm.

Like there is a soul around that would want a woman to carry a dead baby around in her womb. Listen to yourself. What were you thinking. Puzzled

________

"I'm Pro Choice - On Light Bulbs Cool


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 6:56am.

What the md was doing because I never had a baby was...not..telling me that it should have a heart beat by 6 or 7 weeks. It never did any of those times. I was too stupid to know it wasn't right. I found out later that this md had been accused of giving abbortions/DNCs. They were legal, but some mds didn't want the stigma. That was where my md fit in. You have to remember you had nuts running around bombing 'abortion clinics' at that time. By not telling me it should have had a heart beat by that time, he was saving himself the trouble of me bugging him about an abortion/DNC. My ex saw through him the 2nd time. This md told us we should let nature takes its own course and I would have a miscarrage on my own sooner or later. That is what happened to this woman. She had a natural miscarrage. In my eyes, if it is dead, or something wrong, you should have an abbortion. That is why I think woman should have that choice. The md was keeping me from making that decision.

The second md was a wonderful guy. He knew I wanted a baby but he wasn't gonna put me throught that. I respect him very much and almost named my child after him. Every situation is different. This md knew this and wasn't trying to cover his own butt.

If you have a natural miscarage, it can happen anytime, anywhere and you feel you are walking around with a time bomb, which in fact, you are. It is one of the most depressing things in this world to walk around with a dead baby.

Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 10:00pm.

what are you talking about? It MUST have been a LAW or something that made the doctor nervous about giving her a much needed DNC. Wouldn't you think?!

what's your point?


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 5:27am.

The Democratic National Committee? Eye-wink

Show me the LAW. Won't find it. Roe v. Wade made abortions legal during all stages of pregnancy since 1973.

I've known several women who knew 2+ weeks before they miscarried that their child had died. There are medical reasons to let nature take its course (called expectant management, which often has a lower rate of complications) rather than apply an invasive medical procedure. With no treatment (watchful waiting or watch and wait – WAW), most fetuses will pass naturally within 2-6 weeks (during which time the fetus shrinks in size). This path avoids the side effects and complications possible from medications and surgery. Surgical evacuation can have serious complications (hemorrhage that may necessitate a transfusion, infection, uterine perforation, bowel damage, cervical laceration, formation of intrauterine scar tissue – adhesions – that may complicate future pregnancies).

Dilation and curettage (D&C) is frequently performed when a pregnant woman is known to have had an incomplete miscarriage (commonly between 6 and 12 weeks of pregnancy) to remove any remaining tissue.

Dilation and evacuation (D&E) is done in the second 12 weeks (second trimester) of pregnancy (14-22 weeks LMP). It usually includes a combination of vacuum aspiration, dilation and curettage (D&C), and the use of surgical instruments (such as forceps to dismember and remove the fetus).

Stillbirth (intrauterine fetal death or antenatal death) is the death of a baby after 20 weeks gestation. Before 20 weeks it is called a miscarriage. If a miscarriage (premature birth) is due to an incompetent cervix (from 16 weeks on), everything will happen very quickly and your baby may be born alive. If it is determined that your baby has died in utero after the 20th week, the doctor might decide to induce labor and delivery.

"In many parts of the Western world there is a strong preference among gynaecologists to rely on surgical evacuation for the management of miscarriages in the first trimester. Why so many specialists have adopted surgery as the standard procedure seems determined by custom and habit and rooted in history [and financial profitability] rather than being an evidence based choice."

"In women still facing the process of spontaneous miscarriage there is strong evidence to suggest expectant management to be a realistic alternative to surgical evacuation, whereas medical treatment does not seem to offer any advantage. As mifepristone and misoprostol cause gastrointestinal side effects in up to 50% of patients and increase costs, these drugs probably deserve no place in the management of spontaneous miscarriage."

_______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)


shadowalker's picture
Submitted by shadowalker on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 12:14pm.

My God i kneel to you oh great one
from reading your tail of woe i have come
to believe that you are an
OBGYN doctor
Dr Female Phil
Trama Nurse
Brain Surgen
Emergency Room Dr
and all knowing all seeing great one
and many many more things all rolled into one

I hang my head in shame in your shadow
I am shadowalker

you are a Great person

shadowalker


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 7:20am.

I'm sorry to dissagree with you but if you think what that girl went through in Walmart was the best way to go, I feel sorry for you. Blood everywhere, the police hunting you down. An article in the paper. Also, there is noting..better..about having a natural miscarrage. You can bleed to death. My sister in law lived only because the blood woke up my brother. It is a very nasty deal. It also hurts much worse than having a baby cause everthing is happening faster. It is not, in my eyes, the right way to go. But that is why I think everyone should have that choice.

Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 7:30am.

Thank you for your courtesy. NO option is easy and can ease the pain of a miscarriage. There are some options that are better for the mother's health, though.

I posted this elsewhere, but in case you didn't see it:

If I brought additional pain to you, I'm very sorry. I would NEVER want to do that. I know this type of pain and would not want to cause you more. Your doctor should have explained more to you and been more understanding. I'm glad that you have a child, but I know that you never forget your other children.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 6:47am.

"Mainly Extreme--- What's a DNC....The Democratic National Committee? ;)"

Some conversations and situations are not smiley, wink situations calling for humorous attacks. This seems like one of them. Why come dump your Googled laundry list of why not to abort your dead fetus? This situation is done. I think Oldbeach knows her situation better than you know her situation. Is understanding and non-judgmental support not possible for you?

Kevin "Hack" King


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 7:20am.

How quick you are to judge me! My post was addressed to MS and provided the medical context (as well as legal) for her question to Git. I do not find humor in the death of anyone, and I did not "attack" MS or OBB. If you were able to READ, then you would have seen that what OBB went through is a common experience, which might bring some comfort to her. You know NOTHING about my personal life or the deaths that I've experienced; so, as MS loves to say, get off your high horse.

Oldbeachbear, if I brought additional pain, I'm very sorry. I would NEVER want to do that. I know this type of pain and would not want to cause you more. Your doctor should have explained more to you and been more understanding. I'm glad that you have a child, but I know that you never forget your other children.

_______________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)


Submitted by wildcat on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 8:35pm.

We go into shock, don't we? Auto-pilot takes over and everything that needs to get done, gets done. I suspect that is what happened in Walmart. She just needed to get home and was in total denial. My 3rd was stillborn. I can relate.

AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 8:30pm.

I can't begin to imagine what your experiences have been. I do appreciate your willingness to share real stories of a real person's life. Thank you so, so much!

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 8:50pm.

I think the only way people won't judge someone is for others step forward to tell their stories. I believe in DNCs, abortions, because the alternatives are very often what happened to this woman and me.

Nothing is ever black and white, most is in the grey area. I would have loved to have had those kids, but it wasn't meant to be.

In my lifetime I've seen so many ugly things. The way to stop it is compasion. People can't know it if someone doesn't show the other side of the coin, no one will ever have compasion unless they understand. Most people aren't cruel, they just haven't walked a mile in someone's shoes.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 5:01pm.

I'm glad the lady did not have any complications. Of course leaving a clogged toilet with enough blood around which got the attention of another shopper makes me wonder about her. It looks like nothing will become off it. I guess that's just as well.

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by CitizenBlogger on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 5:57pm.

How can you judge someone having that kind of medical emergency? I can't imagine how the mother left knowing what had happened. She could have been terrified, panic-stricken, heartbroken, in pain, hemorraging, whatever. I can only feel sorry for her. I seriously doubt she just callously miscarried, felt nothing, and walked away unfazed. If she did do that, she obviously has big issues. Just so sad no matter how it happened...

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Tue, 03/18/2008 - 7:04pm.

How did I judge her? In fact, you and I are saying the same thing about her.

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by CitizenBlogger on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 8:02am.

To call what happened (whether you or I think we would have handled it that way) a PTA - Public Toilet Accident is tacky. It suggests that you are equating this woman's tragedy with an "accident" of the bladder or bowels.

Something similar happened to me one time. I was pregnant (early 2nd trimester), had sudden extreme cramping, felt fluid, went (as women do) to the toilet to figure out was happening and miscarried into my toilet at home. It was an unbelievable mess. I was hysterical! I didn't examine what was in the toilet bowl. My sister took me to my doctor. My husband handled the "clean up" then met me at the hospital for a d&c to make sure there was no tissue remaining which may have caused sepsis. We were all so traumatized that we never discussed the details of what my husband did. I wouldn't even bring it up now after over fifteen years later.

So, I was personally and deeply offended by your subject heading. I am also not judging this woman because I don't know her physical or mental state.

I am not looking for sympathy. I am looking for you to consider using a little more sensitivity before you make your smart aleck posts.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 8:59pm.

We are saying the same thing.

I seriously doubt she just callously miscarried, felt nothing, and walked away unfazed. If she did do that, she obviously has big issues.

I agree and that's what I conveyed in my post. In fact, it appears that she attempted to........... well you know what she tried to do. As I also stated, I'm glad there was no complications.

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


shadowalker's picture
Submitted by shadowalker on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 12:17pm.

We all have hard times get over it lady

shadowalker


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 9:50am.

I'm very sorry about your miscarriage and the lasting pain, but Cyclist essentially said what you said:

"I can't imagine how the mother left knowing what had happened."

"I seriously doubt she just callously miscarried, felt nothing, and walked away unfazed. If she did do that, she obviously has big issues."

[Don't you wonder why she didn't call anyone for help? Who wouldn't get her some towels, call her family for her, get help for her?]

"It was an unbelievable mess."

Maybe she was callous because she didn't say anything to anyone but left that horrible sight for someone else to find. "If she did do that, she obviously has big issues." I agree. She's 38 years old, not 14. You're assuming that she's like you, but maybe she isn't. Just maybe. And just maybe Cyclist sees a little more clearly than you do. Maybe. Smiling


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 9:20am.

Lady, you have taken his post entirely wrong and if this wasn't an accident then obviously you mean it was planned. When he said he wondered about her I took it to mean he wondered if she escaped complications. I think you're judging Cy a lot more then he was judging anyone and while he can be a smart aleck like the rest of us on here, this wasn't one of those times, and maybe you should look at his post from a couple of different angles before you become personally and deeply offended.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 9:41am.

I agree with CitizenBlogger, Hutch. Cyclist's headline was at best in very poor taste. Granted, it didn't appear that Cyclist was mocking the poor woman who miscarried in the body of his post, but that insensitive cringe-inducing headline made it appear as if he was making light of the situation.

___________________________________________________
Mamas, Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Sissies!


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 03/19/2008 - 9:45am.

You know Cy, that ain't his style. You and me know all about poor taste, but that ain't Cy and you know it.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


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