A Tragic Story

Cyclist's picture

Deborah Shank's Story

Stories like this makes my "liberal" side scream foul.

Cyclist's blog | login to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 11:40pm.

There's a little more to the story from the WSJ via MSN Money. It appears the lady's attorney did contact WM regarding the settlement. Three years later, WM sues the family to recover the expenses.

WSJ Story

Something is wrong with this. The law allows for recovery of expenses however it fails to take in account that, in some cases, expenses needed to stabilize an accident victim can be incredibly expensive. After stabilization there is long-term care expenses. So if I read this right, Mrs Shank's legal team should have settled for twice the original amount which might cover her long-term care. But could reaching such a settlement be doable? One thing for sure, she's on public assistance so all of Arkansas can pay for her care.

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 9:48am.

Again, don't believe everything that you read, even from the WSJ, which I love.

As I can see, you are still flummoxed by this event occurring, but it happens everyday. This is what the law allows, and there is a very good reason why its in effect, and unfortunately there are very good reasons not to allow it either.

Multiply this woman's plight by 10,000, and you will see what typically happens in these types of cases. Because in most cases, there is no huge multi-million dollar insurance policy waiting to pay out on a claim. So, I feel very bad for this woman, but I see it everyday, where there is no insurance available to someone with serious injuries.

The liberals have the answer, national healthcare, and guess what, it would have been exactly the same result. Because as I mentioned earlier, we have to repay government liens, more often than we do private policies.

I don't know the answer. If you knew how many wrongful death cases, that I've settled for $50,000 or $100,000 you would be amazed. (I don't charge legal fees in such cases, typically because I don't charge clients for obtaining funds that a blind man in a dark room could get them.) So I see a lot of injustice out there everyday, I like to call it life.

And thank you for sharing the link. What it appears happened, is the original attorney thumbed his nose at Walmart, after the money was put into trust, to avoid Walmart's claim, (a tactic used by attorneys, that often fails), then the new attorney tried to negotiate.

Its a sad, sad case, and since I hear of these examples everyday, I find that I am always a bit edgy, whenever a family member gets into the car to drive anywhere, because other than a serious disease, like cancer, the main way a person will suffer a health problem is from an injury resulting from an autoaccident.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 6:28am.

Wal-Mart backed down and will not pursue.

WSJ Story

-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 04/04/2008 - 9:03am.

I have a case involving Wal-Mart either as a subrogation claim or as a defendant about 6 times every year. Not a great deal of experience, but enough to formulate my own opinions.

I'm not surprised by this decision, in fact, IF the scum attorney that took the money and ran, had done his job, this insanity likely would never have happened.

Unethical and unprofessional lawyers are as much of a part of my community as unethical and unprofessional doctors, plumbers, and used car sales men are a part of their community. (Maybe I shouldn't have used those professions as examples?)

But with the way the media protrays it, you'd think every lawyer was that bad. Trust me, we aren't. I know many ethical and honest lawyers who really try to put the interests of their clients first.

They might not be on television, but they are out there.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:09pm.

I guess when you look at she is already on a form of national health care - medicaid and social security. Thanks for the dialogue.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by skyspy on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 12:13am.

Read Barbara Ehrenreich book to get the true picture of walley-trash, you can see how they treat their employees. Not pretty, don't eat before you read this one. Also if you have 3 long island iced teas after you read it your nightmares won't be so bad.

Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Thu, 03/06/2008 - 5:49pm.

There are examples after of examples of this occurring, but for every case that you can bring up about Wal-Mart and how evil they are, I can give you a dozen examples of where Wal-mart lost huge amounts of money because it was their own insured's fault, or where there was only a limited amount of insurance available.

So again, highlighting this particular example is important, it is also important that you get the full picture.

Right now federal law, not state law, allows Wal-mart to seek recovery under the current ERISA laws. The attorney representing her, should have known this, and should have negotiated with Walmart, instead, he/she probably did not, and the client was left holding the bills. I have handled many cases against Walmart and many cases with employees of Walmart, and they have always tried to work with me. But if you ignore them and tell them to take a hike, sure they will enforce their legal rights.

You libs talk about people not having health insurance, but when the insurance companies try to cut costs using the current laws afforded them by congress, then you scream bloody murder.

I am a trial lawyer and I'm very familiar with the arguments from both sides of this issue, and trust me, there is argument supporting both sides of this issue. The truth is out there, unless you have already made up your mind about it.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Thu, 03/06/2008 - 7:41pm.

to recover their healthcare premiums? Because Walmart recovered their expenses by suing the family, is this family not, in essence, self insured? Could they not then recover premiums they paid for insurance they thought they had?

I'm not sure why the token "libs" dig. You must not know Cyclist very well.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Thu, 03/06/2008 - 10:37pm.

Actually, Walmart's policy is not an insurance policy. I know thats somewhat confusing, but its not really insurance. And its not just Wal-mart, its Coca-cola, Delta, Microsoft, Panasonic, etc. Why liberals pick on Wal-mart amazes me. They have this strange cult-like hatred that if its a big corporation that is selling a product, then it must be a bad thing, so they highlight Walmart for these types of things. But trust me, it ain't just them.

In fact, I have several people like you Hack, that are in the Military, or Federal Government, and you can bet your bottom dollar, they require repayment in these situations too.

The policy given by the big corporations is not insurance, it is a self funded plan, that Walmart hires Blue Cross or UHC or Aetna to administer for them. They just pay whatever they need from the profits that they would have given to the shareholders, who are the ones that actually own Walmart, or Coke, or Delta.

I know it sounds unfair, and to some degree it is, but what liberals don't understand is that for every action there is a reaction.

For every dollar you give to someone who has made poor life choices, you end up taking it away from me and my ability to provide an income for my family but also for my other 8 employees. Liberals just think that money grows on trees, but instead wealth is produced by sweat and tears, and when you steal it from me, it makes me not want to sweat anymore. So too, are these companies that have libs crying about their attempts at keeping their costs down at the expense of someone that they "feel" their pain.

Symbolism over substance, ignorance over knowledge. Hey, that sounds like a great line that Obama should use for another one of his sensational youtube videos.

And as Paul points out, a good attorney would have worked with Walmart long before the settlement is complete and negotiated out a deal with them first. Instead, too many attorneys have the ethics of a politician. Then again, I don't want to demean my profession. I imagine we are as ethical as the average professional, but its just that our highest and greatest concern is specifically and contractually supposed to be for the clients, and some of us seem to have forgotten that.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 7:20am.

I wasn't looking to "bash" Walmart. I ran across this story. Regardless of one's political leanings, I think we can agree something was seriously wrong with this. The only ones that made out over her situation was her legal team. They won day - for themselves. Perhaps in hindsight, she should have never pursued this "legal" adventure.

Hack,

I guess my problem is I'm not conservative enough to be recognized as such. Smiling

-----------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 8:36am.

I try very hard not to believe everything I read, and this is another example of journalist who is attempting to slam Walmart. You may not have seen many examples of this, but I have. Walmart has been on the liberals' crosshairs for years, they are rabid about them. As I mentioned above, Profit is a dirty word to a liberal, especially if the profit is made off of something that is considered a necessity.
A liberal will gladly pay 5 bucks for a 50 cent cup of coffee at Starbucks, and not complain about their profits, (They are big libs at Starbucks) but Exxon is threatened with having their profits conviscated by liberals because we "need" gas.

But again, don't believe everything you read in the main street media's articles. I'm reminded of the McDonald's Coffee Cup case about 12 years ago. Everyone talks about it as an example of excess verdicts and a runaway justice system, but few people actually know the truth about it, and when they do learn of it, then they scratch their heads and wonder why people got so aggitated about it. Well simply put, people are ignorant. They are easily manipulated by the media and they want snippets of truth about preconcieved evils that affirm their prejudices. Knowledge, takes time to develop, and thats too high of a cost for many to invest in a real decision about an imporant matter, so they just believe what they are told or read.

Its as simple as that.

As to you being conservative, I'm sorry to say, that I'm not that aware of you to express an opinion either way. I remembered your leanings to be somewhat to the left, so if I'm wrong, I apologize. Trust me, being called a liberal is a pretty awful thing to say about a person, and for that I am truly sorry.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 4:32pm.

"But again, don't believe everything you read in the main street media's articles. I'm reminded of the McDonald's Coffee Cup case about 12 years ago. Everyone talks about it as an example of excess verdicts and a runaway justice system, but few people actually know the truth about it, and when they do learn of it, then they scratch their heads and wonder why people got so agitated about it. Well simply put, people are ignorant."

When you say "people are ignorant," you mean "conservatives." But because of your loyalty to an undefinable "conservatism" that somehow does not include George Bush or John McCain, the most powerful men in the GOP right now, you can not speak the truth with candor. Who pushed for tort reform and limited punitive damage awards Richard? Republicans. Who have consistently vilified your chosen profession, Richard? Republicans. What a self loathing position you have been put in. I remember how petty republicans threw around "trial lawyer" like a slur to cover John Edwards and Kerry. So predictable, yet petty. This works for simple minds such as yours Richard. You see Starbuck's customers as liberal, yet the four plus stores here in the heart of conservatism do quite well. You dishonestly try to insinuate that only liberals feel that Walmart does not adequately serve their employee in this case, or that liberals like the world's richest man don't understand profit, but you are in an impossible position. You have been given talking points that liberals are against Walmart, so when Cyclist, a Republican, points out an example of Walmart failing to treat an employee with a basic level of humanity, you Blindly paint him liberal out of your own ignorance. Even though you wear the same brand as the worst fiscal administration we have ever seen, you keep a drum beat of "tax and spend liberals" going hoping that we won't question "tax cut and spend even more" republicanism.

Richard, we are all smart enough to notice reality; in our economy; in war spending; in brave talk of "winning wars" from "men" who will never fight in them; in lawless wire tapping not being "freedom." I believe, at this point, you must be typing to make yourself feel better. I'd recommend Viagra to have much greater efficacy.

Kevin "Hack" King

ps: You said to Cyclist, "As to you being conservative, I'm sorry to say, that I'm not that aware of you to express an opinion either way."

Richard Hobbs, this is a LIE because your initial response to Cyclist was:

"You libs talk about people not having health insurance, but when the insurance companies try to cut costs using the current laws afforded them by congress, then you scream bloody murder."


rock78's picture
Submitted by rock78 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:50pm.

I'm certainly no lawyer, nor do I care about the coffee shop that anyone prefers, however...

WM was put in an awful position in this instance, should they aggressively pursue monies they are due by law, or should they sit idly by and take the loss...

Personally, I feel that WM made an AWFUL choice (Purely from a business perspective); they will receive more negative publicity from this case than they gained in the settlement. Honestly, I feel that we should discuss the poor representation that this woman received - If her lawyer (and family) were aware of the limited damages that she would receive, then why proceed with the litigation? Perhaps they felt that WM should have let this go, but if they did, then what happens on the next case, then the next one....the cycle will repeat over and over....

The main item of interest is to see WM put in an insurers position....should they pursue the monies that are legitimately owed, or should they take the loss?

Hobbs' last point is an important one. When states pass new laws requiring an insurance plan to cover a provision, costs to the consumer (whether they be individual or a "group") increase. States should NEVER determine the coverages that an insurer should be required to provide - In the end, they are limiting the eventual cost savings to the consumer.

For instance, click here, for a review of the '08 legislation proposed by Oxendine. Essentially, renewal rates must be approved by the DOI in all instances. Hack, one of the reasons health companies request increases on a yearly basis (aside from a typical "experience" analysis), is trend - that is, the increase in cost of the services medical professionals provide (Adjusted for inflation). Insurance companies must price for the increase in pure claims cost on a yearly basis....and now our DOI should have to approve that increase. Hack, this is one of the main issues that we face in this market today. My apologies for getting off on a tangent, but I felt that this topic needed to be brought up in the discussion. Thankfully, this legislation didn't pass. Our commissioner's response

Anyway, I hope the recovery process goes well for you, sir! At least the injury hasn't taken away your blogging capabilities -- Smiling


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 10:44pm.

Dishonest smears like Richard's, I detest.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 8:57am.

too often using the term "liberal" is merely an excuse to avoid answering tough questions. I remember that Mac Collins once came into my classroom and held a question and answer session with some seniors (voters in a government class, incidentally}. He mentioned that one of his goals in the upcoming session of Congress (if re-elected) was to cut everyone's taxes. One student asked him, "Which programs will you reduce along with the taxcuts?" Mac looked at the kid and said, "Oh, your a liberal aren't you?", got a good chuckle, and moved to the next question. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 10:52am.

Very amusing, how you fall back on conservatives not answering tough questions.

So let me ask you to answer a few questions.

Name a period in which tax cuts did not produce an increase in revenue to the federal government.

Name any government program that has been run efficiently and cost no more than the originally anticipated costs.

Name the correct tax rate(s) that has a neutral effect or a positive effect on capitalism. Is taking 40% too much? Is 98% too much for Bill Gates 50 billion dollars? That would leave him 1 billion to "play" with, isn't that enough for one man?

So, I'll wait for your obvious talents in "answering" the tough questions.

Mac's comments did not reflect his unwillingness to answer those tough questions, but his unwillingess to cast the pearls of wisdom before swine, something that may be doing right now in trying to get a real answer out of you.

As you mention, Democracy is not a spectator sport, nope, True Democracy is mob rule, controlled by the rants and ravings of ignorant community leaders, who know not of what they speak.

I look forward to some evidence of your liberal intelligence.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 7:48am.

those are certainly tough questions and I have to say, you got me. I am not an economist and have no real expertise in macro-economics. And I do not know how many economists can dance on the head of a pin. So go ahead and take your anticipated shot at the liberals and their inability to answer the tough questions.

I will say, in my defense, that I am NOT running for representative of the 3rd (then 12th) district and, as far as tough questions go, "What programs are you planning to cut?" as a response to a statement about cutting taxes should not have been a stumper. It is easy to say you are for cutting taxes {Who isn't?} but few like to go on record for cutting specific programs.

And a final note, the student who asked that question eventually graduated top 10 in her class at the Air Force Academy, holds the individual soaring record for altitude in the US and is a future astronaut.

So have at it. and Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 1:56pm.

You don't have to be an economist to understand basic human characteristics. We react to our eniviornment in nature, by wearing warm clothes and building a roof over our heads. When faced with progressive taxes, we sit on our butts, and say to hell with it. Who wants to bust their behind, merely to let someone in Government take it away to use it on someone "they" "feel" needs it more than you, who earned it.

I doubt I can explain it very well, but here is a brief try.

For the sake of argument, just imagine that we have a 100% confiscatory tax rate.
Everything you make, you pay back to the government.
Then the government uses the money the way they see fit.

The only income that could then be taxed, would be on the income paid to governmental employees, and ultimately for the indirect income produced by the expenditures, i.e. building roads and highways, etc., but then that money would eventually flow back into the governmental piggy bank too.

This would obviously not work beyond a few marginal years, when our acquired wealth is eventually lost in paying for essentials. The well would eventually run dry.

But every dollar, the Government "allows" us to keep, (unlike a fairtax, where we decide if we want to pay a tax on an item of choice), is a dollar that we will use and spend on things we need. That means that a single dollar earned by an American actually is taxed at say, 20%, but the remaining 80 cents continues to burn through the economy, being spent by the person who earned that 80 cents of income, until finally, that first dollar has been spent and earned and taxed as many as 7 times in one year.

A capitalistic economy is a consumption economy. The more we consume, the more we produce income for others to survive and thrive. If we have less to use in consumption, then the economy will go stagnant. So when the Government lets us keep more of our own earned money, through tax cuts, we don't just take the money and burn it for fun. (If that happened, then yes, tax cuts would be extremely detrimental.) Instead, we use it to consume!

Liberals think that wealth is static, that the world has a single "wealth" pie that has to be divided up fairly between the peoples of the world, but that is just not right. Wealth is created, and not by government, but by individuals who are willing to risk their money, their creative thinking, their time studying in colleges and universities, such that they know that their hard work will hopefully and reasonably produce a bountiful return on their investment. Take away that motivation, and you will find loathsome and lazy people living off the backs of others, otherwise known as the Democratic base, e.g. Katrina victims.

So yes, tax cuts go back into the economy and the money is used to produce jobs which produces an individual no longer in need of governmental assistance, and who then returns a portion of that income back to the government. Liberals love people who depend on the government for its needs, Hillary said it best, "It takes a Village" to raise your child, and it takes Universal Healthcare, Socialism Security for your retirement, and welfare to fill in the gaps. What Hillary and liberals haven't figured out, is that welfare recipents, neither pay taxes nor produce wealth or income to tax. Giving money to these programs is like burning it away. (Again, except for the indirect consquences of the give-aways, i.e. food stamps are not income for the receipant, but the baker makes a profit and is then taxed, when the receiptant uses the taxpayer's money.)

Its not that hard to understand, unless, as Jeff surmises about international affairs, it is too difficult for some illiterates to fathom, which it is; and is why people who can't comprehend this fact, oppose tax cuts.

The real problem, --and the Republicans are even more guilty than the democrats in these last 8 years, is that tax cuts without the control on spending, can produce huge deficits. Earmarks may only make up 1% of the budget, but that's a lot of pork for a trillion dollar budget.

So thanks for the question. I'll give you another question. Find me three governmental programs that are being run "efficiently" and I'll show you three thousand private entities that could do it even better. Government steals motivation, steals individualism, steals responsibilty and accountablity away from its employees and produces a result that if done with free market influences, would have produced a much better product. Its as simple as that.

(Oh, and if you remember a few years back, I believe it was Kerry in 2004, but honestly I can't be for sure. Anyway, he wanted, with several Democrats, to tax the embedded value of our homes as income. Yes, they wanted to tax you for the increase of value you have in your home in equity. Which is now consistent with what the Government is now wanting to do in bailing all the naredowells, who have bought into these sub prime loans, and now can't make their mortgage payments. I say, anyone who owns a cell phone, a color tv with cable, with a computer, shouldn't be on any governmental assistance, whatsover. Why do I have to give more money to the government to take care of people too stupid to balance their own budgets, but how have all the unecessary luxuries of life?)


sdg's picture
Submitted by sdg on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 2:13pm.

You even (justly) criticized the Repubs for not cutting spending after the tax cuts.

I believe it was Carter who floated the idea of "imputed income" and a related tax.

His example, if memory serves, was if you paint your house rather than hiring someone you would have imputed income on the savings and increase in value.

You can't make up stuff this absurd.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 1:56pm.

You don't have to be an economist to understand basic human characteristics. We react to our eniviornment in nature, by wearing warm clothes and building a roof over our heads. When faced with progressive taxes, we sit on our butts, and say to hell with it. Who wants to bust their behind, merely to let someone in Government take it away to use it on someone "they" "feel" needs it more than you, who earned it.

I doubt I can explain it very well, but here is a brief try.

For the sake of argument, just imagine that we have a 100% confiscatory tax rate.
Everything you make, you pay back to the government.
Then the government uses the money the way they see fit.

The only income that could then be taxed, would be on the income paid to governmental employees, and ultimately for the indirect income produced by the expenditures, i.e. building roads and highways, etc., but then that money would eventually flow back into the governmental piggy bank too.

This would obviously not work beyond a few marginal years, when our acquired wealth is eventually lost in paying for essentials. The well would eventually run dry.

But every dollar, the Government "allows" us to keep, (unlike a fairtax, where we decide if we want to pay a tax on an item of choice), is a dollar that we will use and spend on things we need. That means that a single dollar earned by an American actually is taxed at say, 20%, but the remaining 80 cents continues to burn through the economy, being spent by the person who earned that 80 cents of income, until finally, that first dollar has been spent and earned and taxed as many as 7 times in one year.

A capitalistic economy is a consumption economy. The more we consume, the more we produce income for others to survive and thrive. If we have less to use in consumption, then the economy will go stagnant. So when the Government lets us keep more of our own earned money, through tax cuts, we don't just take the money and burn it for fun. (If that happened, then yes, tax cuts would be extremely detrimental.) Instead, we use it to consume!

Liberals think that wealth is static, that the world has a single "wealth" pie that has to be divided up fairly between the peoples of the world, but that is just not right. Wealth is created, and not by government, but by individuals who are willing to risk their money, their creative thinking, their time studying in colleges and universities, such that they know that their hard work will hopefully and reasonably produce a bountiful return on their investment. Take away that motivation, and you will find loathsome and lazy people living off the backs of others, otherwise known as the Democratic base, e.g. Katrina victims.

So yes, tax cuts go back into the economy and the money is used to produce jobs which produces an individual no longer in need of governmental assistance, and who then returns a portion of that income back to the government. Liberals love people who depend on the government for its needs, Hillary said it best, "It takes a Village" to raise your child, and it takes Universal Healthcare, Socialism Security for your retirement, and welfare to fill in the gaps. What Hillary and liberals haven't figured out, is that welfare recipents, neither pay taxes nor produce wealth or income to tax. Giving money to these programs is like burning it away. (Again, except for the indirect consquences of the give-aways, i.e. food stamps are not income for the receipant, but the baker makes a profit and is then taxed, when the receiptant uses the taxpayer's money.)

Its not that hard to understand, unless, as Jeff surmises about international affairs, it is too difficult for some illiterates to fathom, which it is; and is why people who can't comprehend this fact, oppose tax cuts.

The real problem, --and the Republicans are even more guilty than the democrats in these last 8 years, is that tax cuts without the control on spending, can produce huge deficits. Earmarks may only make up 1% of the budget, but that's a lot of pork for a trillion dollar budget.

So thanks for the question. I'll give you another question. Find me three governmental programs that are being run "efficiently" and I'll show you three thousand private entities that could do it even better. Government steals motivation, steals individualism, steals responsibilty and accountablity away from its employees and produces a result that if done with free market influences, would have produced a much better product. Its as simple as that.

(Oh, and if you remember a few years back, I believe it was Kerry in 2004, but honestly I can't be for sure. Anyway, he wanted, with several Democrats, to tax the embedded value of our homes as income. Yes, they wanted to tax you for the increase of value you have in your home in equity. Which is now consistent with what the Government is now wanting to do in bailing all the naredowells, who have bought into these sub prime loans, and now can't make their mortgage payments. I say, anyone who owns a cell phone, a color tv with cable, with a computer, shouldn't be on any governmental assistance, whatsover. Why do I have to give more money to the government to take care of people too stupid to balance their own budgets, but how have all the unecessary luxuries of life?)


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 1:59pm.

can you delete one of those double's, please.

------------------------
HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT ON THE IRAQ WAR SO FAR


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 4:44pm.

He'll just twist your words and blame liberalism for your confusion.

Kevin "Hack" King


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 7:52am.

that is the nature of the beast. Attack the individual rather than address the issue. Deflect. It comes with the territory.

Enjoyed meeting you and your family. I am glad you all came and I am honored to know you personally, rather than merely online. Keep the faith

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 8:58am.

I too enjoyed meeting your parents, if your Dad is still here Sunday I plan on hitting the course and he's more then welcome to come. Have a good weekend and we'll have coffee again soon.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 10:07am.

Dad's right here. He says "Thanks for the offer." My folks are leaving Sunday am. He will come back when I have two arms and we'll all hit the links.
My dad was amazed when I told him that yesterday's group were republicans and democrats. He couldn't believe how friendly the atmosphere was and he noted that what we saw yesterday is what we lack nationally; the ability to converse and share ideas without attacking the messenger. I hope we can grow our group so that even the most adversarial of us can get to the point of exchanging information and ideas without trampling on one another personally.

Anyhow break out your orange balls so you can spot them in the snow.

Smiling

Kevin "Hack" King


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:03pm.

R-E-L-A-X ..... breathe deeply ..... it will be okay.... this is supposed to be 'fun'.

By the way, does this button make my avatar look big?

Sniffles05 The Plagiarizer in Chief
Sniffles05:Angry and often proven wrong.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:08pm.

Call me Kevin or Hack. I'm having fun here. Until Richard files suit

Kevin "Hack" King


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:12pm.

This is why we serve(d). Life is good even when it's bad Kevin. Eye-wink

Now, back to the 'dogfight' you liberal weenie. Cool

Sniffles05 The Plagiarizer in Chief
Sniffles05:Angry and often proven wrong.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:59pm.

Eye-wink

Kevin "Hack" King


Locke's picture
Submitted by Locke on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 11:58am.

I believe you are mistaken.

Tax cuts have not paid for themselves in the past.

The Administration itself does not project that the tax cuts will pay for themselves

In recent testimony before Congress’s Joint Economic Committee, Edward Lazear, current chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors, stated, “I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves.”

Studies by the Congressional Budget Office, the Joint Committee on Taxation, and the Administration itself show that tax cuts do not come anywhere close to paying for themselves over the long term. CBO and Joint Tax Committee studies find that, if financed by government borrowing, tax cuts are more likely to harm than to help the economy over the long run, and consequently would cost more than conventional estimates indicate, rather than less.

Here is the study which backs up this information. Can you refute it?

Center on Budget and Policy Priorities


Submitted by sageadvice on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 1:35pm.

If Reagan and Bush's upper income tax cuts worked, why did they overspend the budget, combined, by about 10 Trillion dollars?

Makes no sense.

Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 1:03pm.

First off, I love your wonderful icon. Democrats for Freedom. I can't remember the last time, that I heard a democrat ever use that word.

Let me see if I can understand how you use that term.

Freedom to have healthcare forced down our throats and for me to pay for the lifestyle choices others have been making their entire lives.

Freedom from responsibility, cradle to grave protection regardless of what you do.

Freedom to stick your hand in my pocket and take what I earn to give it to whom you think deserves it at any given time.

Freedom to abort children, who could have been prevented merely by acting responsibly.

Freedom to attack everything America does in its best interest, as nothing more than a military intervention run by big corporations.

Freedom to change the rules whenever you like, even after the game has been played. See Michigan and Florida in 2000 and 2008.

Freedom to ignore the will of the people and to allow the most intelligent liberal elites to decide your candidate.

I can't do much research online now, about the revenue increases that came after John F. Kennedy's cut taxes, or Ronald Reagan's tax cuts, or George W. Bush's cut taxes. Its easy to find, but I don't have that much time.

But while your looking at it, consider the ramifications of your progressive taxation and on the effects it has on small businesses, and those that hire more employees than any other single thing.

Freedom. Its a big word. Are you sure you know what it means?


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 4:47pm.

From Hobbs the liar:
"First off, I love your wonderful icon. Democrats for Freedom. I can't remember the last time, that I heard a democrat ever use that word."

I suppose he considers himself a republican for truth?

Kevin "Hack" King


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:00pm.

You have become the property of Richard Hobbs. It's funny. he posts, and then you kick in like Pavlov's dog to say some off of the wall retort to attempt to score on him. Dude, let it go. Honestly. It will free a few minutes in your busy schedule allowing you to spend more time with your family. Free your mind from him.

I guess one man's taunting is another man's fixation. I'm just having fun here Kevin. Trust me.... this takes no effort whatsoever.

Sniffles05 The Plagiarizer in Chief
Sniffles05:Angry and often proven wrong.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:05pm.

Smiling

I get it.

Cheers

Kevin "Hack" King


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 5:07pm.

I think we would both be happy with the same things politically speaking but heck ... what fun would that be to post?

Happy Hunting Kev. Eye-wink

Sniffles05 The Plagiarizer in Chief
Sniffles05:Angry and often proven wrong.


Locke's picture
Submitted by Locke on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 2:27pm.

The fact is that tax cuts did not pay for themselves in 1981, under Reagan, not in the late 1980’s under Bush I nor since 2001 under Bush II. This is confirmed by the Treasury Department, the Congressional Budget Office, the Joint Economic Committee of Congress and the Office of Management and Budget.

Links to all of these studies can be found here: Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Facts are facts whether you acknowledge them or not.

I’m glad you like my avatar. I think your party's assault on the Constitution dilutes your comments about freedom. Your avatar insinuating B. Obama is a Muslim is typical of your regard for facts.

The ramifications of progressive taxation and its effects on small businesses has been that since progressive taxation was established the US has led every country in the world every year in the number of businesses created.

Thanks for asking.

---------
It is one thing to show a man that he is in an error, and another to put him in possession of the truth. John Locke


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 10:58am.

"Mac's comments did not reflect his unwillingness to answer those tough questions, but his unwillingess to cast the pearls of wisdom before swine..."

What swine are you referring to? The HS student who asked the question?


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 11:10am.

Again, tongue in cheek.

What I surmised is that the student, was likely mocking Mac with his questions. Mind you, he may have been very concerned, as I am, about the government spending problems, thanks part and parcel to Republicans who have been castrated by power, but considering the source, I suspected the context reflected a liberal almost mocking Mac on spending. Liberals have no problems at all with excessive spending, so when they comment on such, they are just trying to rub salt in our own self inflicted wounds, and are not really serious about seeing spending decreases.

That's a generalization, true, and maybe the student was actually concerned with the spending, but I'll trust Mac's response as being reflective of the context of the comments.

Then again, it wouldn't be the first time that I've been wrong. This will be number 2, the first was staying up all might partying with my friends the night before I took my SAT's back in 1977.

My scores weren't quite what they should have been and I've been suffering from my poor choices ever since.


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 11:30am.

If you sincerely attempt to decipher all of mainextreme/sniffy/UnLocked's ridiculous misinterpretations of your blogs you will not have time to practice law.

Taking the time to present facts or interject humor is completely lost on the "troll trio"©.

I enjoy your blogs - it's always entertaining to see sniffy/basmati/UnLocked's emotionally based (ir)rationalizations dismantled by your superior logic and reasoning.

Sniffles05 The Plagiarizer in Chief
Sniffles05:Angry and often proven wrong.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 4:53pm.

that you have become the property of Mainstream. It's funny. She posts, and then you kick in like Pavlov's dog to say some off of the wall retort to attempt to score on her. Dude, let it go. Honestly. It will free a few minutes in your busy schedule allowing you to meet with us next time; dems and repubs together; in Starbuck's; no fights. Free your mind from her.

Kevin "Hack" King


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 6:30pm.

It used to be bpr/lilly trolling me - I nipped that one though.

I think our buddy tsleuth needs a shock collar - what do you think? Or maybe just neutered.

Hey... how was Starbucks? Did you meet some new folks today?

------------------------
HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT ON THE IRAQ WAR SO FAR


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 8:46pm.

Had a lot of fun at Starbucks today. I finally got to meet Cyclist. Hack brought the adorable Mrs. Hack and was chaperoned by his parents, who managed to keep those two love birds from any serious PDA. Eye-wink

We had a splendid time discussing the issues of the day.
_______________________________________________________
Truthsleuth Speaks!
Don't Click This Link, Denise!


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:03pm.

I will be a "ditto-head" on that comment. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:02pm.

Sorry I missed the fun. I would have enjoyed meeting Cyclist and the Hack family! This blog has been a great outlet in so many ways, especially in connecting folks that establish new friendships. Did grateful and yardman attend also?

I see denise has been active on here tonight. Lots of right-wing spittle dripping from those jaws of hers. We just got back from dinner at Smokey Bones - love that place, but they hiked their prices... probably to cover increased transportation and fuel costs. Prices are going up everywhere, it's hard to keep up sometimes.

We're getting ready to watch a video "The Invasion" (remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers) - the kids will like that one!!!!

Have a great night!

------------------------
HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT ON THE IRAQ WAR SO FAR


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:06pm.

The snifflespawn have returned home from college for spring break so we took the golf cart over to Brusters.

Not the best idea, on the trip home we ran out of juice and ended up pushing it up the last big hill before stately sniffles manor.
_______________________________________________________
Truthsleuth Speaks!
Don't Click This Link, Denise!


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:01am.

Our golf cart did that once and we had to tow it home. The batteries actually blew-up spraying battery acid everywhere. And those type of batteries are expensive ($600) to replace!

So, your kids are spending spring break with you and Mrs. Sniffles? Or are they jetting off to the beach?

------------------------
HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT ON THE IRAQ WAR SO FAR


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:31pm.

I got a real hoot over this one. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:56pm.

That's the problem with exceeding the weight limit bas...

http://www.thecitizen.com/~citizen0/node/26167#comment-67074

If someone replies, don't think you can delete the extra.


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 11:33am.

DELETED


TruthSleuth1958's picture
Submitted by TruthSleuth1958 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:20pm.

It kills the battery and suspension and by the looks of things, it wasn't your hair that weighed it down. You really do need to back off those jelly donuts.

Have a good one!
Submitted by sniffles5 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:06pm.

The snifflespawn have returned home from college for spring break so we took the golf cart over to Brusters.
Not the best idea, on the trip home we ran out of juice and ended up pushing it up the last big hill before stately sniffles manor.
_______________________________________________________
Truthsleuth Speaks!
Don't Click This Link, Denise!

Reply

Comment:*

Formatting guidelines:

  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <code> <ul> <ol> <li> <dl> <dt> <dd>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Images can be added to this post.
  • You may link to G2 items on this site using a special syntax
  • Textual smileys will be replaced with graphical ones.

More information about formatting options

Advertisements

Who's online
There are currently 9 users and 872 guests online.Online users:

Who's new

Recent Comments


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:05pm.

yardman was there but grateful doc missed this opportunity. Keep the faith

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 8:17pm.

"Maybe just neutered."

Is this your feminist side coming out?

"a shock collar" Shocked

MS: "The older I get, the more Main Stream I become, staying away from the fringe elements." Puzzled


Ms Extreme's "guttural level of hate and venom"


CODE PINK-O
Laughing out loud


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:07am.

In order for you to distinguish who I am, I'll wear my conservative sign. Smiling
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:04am.

Sorry I missed you and the Hacks today at Starbucks.

No biking tomorrow - could be snow.

Husband may need a cycling bud some time. Can you bike 40 miles (Lake Horton and back)?

------------------------
HOW MUCH WE'VE SPENT ON THE IRAQ WAR SO FAR


gratefuldoc's picture
Submitted by gratefuldoc on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:35pm.

sorry I missed everyone yesterday.......last minute walk in.....gotta keep the lights on. Keep me posted and I'll try to make the next one. Speaking of Starbucks....hit up the new one at the Newnan/Thomas Crossroads Kroger this morn.....looks like those "liberal weenies", as some of the sniveling posters on here would say, are popping up all over our "self" righteous region. I say keep 'em comin'....the more the merrier Smiling

"once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right"
"listen to the thunder shouting, "I AM, I AM, I AM"

;>} Have a grateful day ;>}


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Sat, 03/08/2008 - 12:27pm.

Hopefully soon. It's no lie that I have a few pounds to shed. But I'm working on it.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:10am.

good plan...I was going to look for someone who resembled your avatar.Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 11:18am.

He doesn't have as much hair as his avatar does.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 12:58am.

You drive home the point that you are a genuine, first class rectum. Honestly.

"Why liberals pick on Wal-mart amazes me. They have this strange cult-like hatred that if its a big corporation that is selling a product, then it must be a bad thing, so they highlight Walmart for these types of things. But trust me, it ain't just them."

The liberal hatred of Walmart is your opinion. I shop there often. My mother in law works there. Speak for yourself.

"but what liberals don't understand is that for every action there is a reaction."

Richard, again, you might want to lecture over-spending, tax cutting republicans on the whole action reaction thing. You may then figure out how our federal budget deficits have grown to historical levels.

"For every dollar you give to someone who has made poor life choices, you end up taking it away from me and my ability to provide an income for my family but also for my other 8 employees."

Richard, what "poor life choices" did Deborah Shank make?

Thanks for showing me how incompatible the words "conservative" and "values" are. Heaven... I mean profits forbid we have adequate health care for an American citizen who had full employment

Kevin "Hack" King


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:39am.

Main Stream to Hack: "They love to stereotype, don't they..."

"Hairy-legged women who shop at Lane Bryant LOL (actually, it sounds like the typical Fayette County, card-carrying Republican women I see ranting at the PTO meetings or riding in the scooters through the aisles at Wal-Mart)."

___________________________

“Is Wal-Mart Too Powerful?” (Business Week) Excerpts

At Wal-Mart ["the Beast of Bentonville"], "everyday low prices" is more than a slogan; it is the fundamental tenet of a cult masquerading as a company.

However, Wal-Mart's seemingly simple and virtuous business model is fraught with complications and perverse consequences.

By most accounts, though, Wal-Mart's cultural gatekeeping has served to narrow the mainstream for entertainment offerings while imparting to it a rightward tilt.

[Just what might that be?]

The big music companies have stopped grousing about Wal-Mart and are eagerly supplying the chain with the same sanitized versions of explicit CDs that they provide to radio stations.

___________________________

Sen. Obama: “I won’t shop there.” He has a "moral responsibility to stand up and fight" Wal-Mart and "force them to examine their own corporate values" (i.e, appease unions and pander for votes). (Michelle was a paid board member of a Wal-Mart vendor but resigned after union pressure, ostensibly to campaign for Barack.)

"Community activists" (Obama's resume) working for unions (Dems) and other Dems try everything that they can to stop a new store from opening, such as Chicago's first Wal-Mart. Jesse Jackson called for a boycott of Wal-Mart.

Alderman Emma Mitts countered that people in her West Side ward [a poor, largely black and Hispanic neighborhood] need the jobs that Wal-Mart can bring.

"Take a ride in my area and see what I am dealing with day in and day out. There's a lack of jobs and opportunity," she said.

The result: City officials finally agreed to a West Side Wal-Mart, but the South Side store was denied despite the many residents in the predominately "black" neighborhoods wanting the store for the jobs and the convenience and savings.

The new Wal-Mart opened its doors just outside South Side city limits and over 25,000 plus applications poured in for the jobs.

As one person commented, "Way to go, guys — a real victory for the working man!!! Oops, one problem — they opened next door in Evergreen Park, so now THAT town gets all the revenues, taxes, jobs, and thousands of shoppers willing to part with their money."

___________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.” (Feminists for Life)


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 4:54pm.

Can't read it; too long.

Kevin "Hack" King


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:07pm.

There are classes for that and for short attention span, too. Eye-wink

Maybe you meant "won't"? You're sounding like $$$$$ now. I left the links out & deliberately shortened my original post so as not to confuse both of you. Laughing out loud

Won't let the FACTS (which I have pages & pages of) influence your opinions, will you?

_____________________________

8-week fetus ("young one") -- Only 30-32 more weeks to go!

“Women who are experiencing an unplanned pregnancy also deserve unplanned joy.”(Feminists for Life)


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 12:46pm.

I don't know where Hack gets his news, but apparently he either is ignorant of the libs attack against Walmart, or his is just pretending to not know, in either case, it tells alot of why he thinks that I am nothing more than a sphincter.

I appreciate your blogs as well. They are very well founded in facts and links to sites that back up what you say.

Today, I'm in a seminar in Atlanta, listening to other lawyers tell me how to practice law. Some are excellent, some, well not so much. So I take a break from the boredom to check on this blog.


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 9:22pm.

Sometimes I think that continuing professional ed is a way to supplement the income of people who can't make it practicing their profession. Who decided to have a conference on "Resort Development" at Vail, CO, in August? The Bahamas would be a much better locale. Laughing out loud

What can you do when you present facts and reasons for your opinions and the response is "LIAR" or other epithets? Laughing out loud


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Fri, 03/07/2008 - 8:24am.

So please don't pick on a few of mine.

I know Walmart is loved by many people, in general. We shop their regularly. But Liberals do hate Walmart.

Google the words Liberal vs. Walmart or Democrats vs. Walmart and you get flooded with websites.
Heck, one of the things the liberals picked on about Hillary was she once served on Walmart's board.

I remember last year, The unions in Nevada were protesting Walmart for starting their employees at 8 or 9 dollars and hour, and the hyprocritcal thing was that they hired people to picket outside their store for $7 per hour.

Anyway, the web is filled with examples of liberals "cult like" hatred for Walmart and companies that make a profit. Hillary is screaming about "taking' away the profits from the oil companies. Gees, I thought that was called stealing.

So don't act naive, you ain't that stoopid.


Paul Perkins's picture
Submitted by Paul Perkins on Thu, 03/06/2008 - 6:02pm.

I can tell you that Richard has valid points. Having some experience with a medical malpractice case, we had one attorney warn us of the above events happening and mentioned agreeing on an amount of reimbursement with Blue Cross prior to settling our case.

It's really sad that this often comes down to who has the best attorney.

Conservatism is based a true understanding of human nature. Liberalism is based upon hoping human nature will change.
This is the way to blog!


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 03/06/2008 - 10:44pm.

You do have to question the competency of her attorney(s). Yes, the law is what it is; however, this lady is now on public assistance. Her attorney(s) settle for about $700K, and then $300K of that went to that "outstanding" legal team. Walmart then finished off the rest. Perhaps it would have better to settle for $1.4M or more; if that was possible. The whole idea of this legal exercise was to compensate her or to make whole. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.