dangerous, misleading and useless post. Please, let us try to keep it as factual as humanly possible and not resort to this type of inflammatory and defamatory rhetoric. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56405

Orbama saving the world

McCain has proven over a dozen times over in the past years alone that he lacks conviction on issues. His position changes to whatever direction the political wind is blowing. Case in point; yesterday he voted against ending waterboarding of detainees. A practice that he absolutely opposed over the past 6 months. In fact, he was very vocal about it when he called it an "inhumane" and "inexcuseable" practice.

Sorry, party or no party, I'm not lowing my standards and putting lipstick on a pig just because he's a Republican. He is what he is and I don't find the thought of having another 7 years of President Bush very promising or inspiring at all.

That's basically what McCain amounts to.

So let the truth be told.

Tyrone terror asks:

"What is his plan to help bring about a calmer, safer, and more peaceful planet?"

ummm... by not bomb bomb bomb bomb bombing Iran, not staying in Iraq 100 years, and actually talking to regional powers in the middle east to broker a peace that 8 years of going it greatly alone has not brought to fruition.

Shadow, if you've read my response to you, the self proclaimed "angry white man," you know that we think ideologically differently. But we both can deal with facts, right? So let's dive in. You say that democrats are for the following:

1. For bigger government, not less government

The current republican president has formed the largest, most expensive government on the planet earth.

2. Favors big government over states rights

The current GOP lead government thought it knew better of Florida family court business than the Florida family court did. They were repudiated. States and municipalities across the country are fighting this monstrous and intrusive government that is attempting to snoop in citizens' library and email records.

3. Emphases on government to provide for the people (social entitlements system)

... as opposed to government providing for the corporations (even offering immunity from prosecution for illegal data mining of citizens).

4. National Health Care Coverage for all regardless of who pays

... as opposed to National Health care for the same congressmen and Senators who tell us how dangerous national health care is all while making tax payer-funded 6 figures.

5. Soft on Immigration, wants to covet Hispanic votes, approves of amnesty, not rule of law, will not secure our borders

And what has your team done? Seriously; what have they done?

6. Against tax reform (Fair Tax / Consumption Tax / Flat Tax)

Dude! Who isn't against the fair tax? Are you saying that republicans are for it, but smehow it hasn't come to a vote? Really?

7. Anyone opposing Obama policy decisions will be branded racist

Dream on, brother. Dream on. This is straight from your and Beaver's gray matter.

8. Tax Rebates even for those who don’t pay taxes

Like a fair tax "pre bate?" So are you for or against the fair tax?

9. Soft on Terrorism, lack of ability or fortitude to get the job done, weakening US position in the world

Ummm... Where is Osama Bin Laden? Why is Al Qaeda stronger according to our intelligence estimates? Why is Afghanistan going the wrong direction?

10. Wants to play nice with the Chinese when it is clear they are a verified threat to our national security and economy.

This takes the cake Shadow8. Do you know where the notes for this humongous debt republicans have amassed are held??? CHINA! Your team has indebted us to China.

Don't you just hate how facts interfere with flawed ideology sometimes?

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Wow, if this isn't a steaming plate of "whoop ass" on TyroneTerror and Shadow 8, I don't know what is!

Good work Kevin!

Let's not beat around the bush. Republicans can't stand the idea of McCain getting the nomination, but for the sake of the GOP, they're now forced to put lipsick on the pig and attempt sell him off to others as the Homecoming Queen. The new Republican mantra should be: "Party before country . . . every time, all the time!"

OBA-MANIA is sweeping the nation like an out of control brush fire.

VOTE OBAMA IN 2008 . . . The choice of a new generation!

Straight from his website:
"Talk to our Foes and Friends: Obama is willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe. He will do the careful preparation necessary, but will signal that America is ready to come to the table, and that he is willing to lead. And if America is willing to come to the table, the world will be more willing to rally behind American leadership to deal with challenges like terrorism, and Iran and North Korea's nuclear programs."

Uh...Thats Bull!@#* ! So his plan is to talk to them. What are they going to talk about? Does he have a plan to present that everyone could execute and we'd be peaceful and happy? NO. His plan is the same as most liberals' plan. Give them what they want and they'll go away. Yeah right...that's just like blackmail. Once they get something from you they continue to have demands, until before long you've given them everything, Americas sovereignty, America's heart and America's soul!

Sounds like a great plan to me! NOT!

meaningful debate, but you brought nothing but napkin rings to this pot luck; no meat; no sides; not even actual napkins.

Seriously, what am I supposed to do with this from you?

"Uh...Thats Bull!@#* ! So his plan is to talk to them. What are they going to talk about? Does he have a plan to present that everyone could execute and we'd be peaceful and happy? NO."

How 'bout starting with a covered dish. What is the McCain peace plan? We can debate it, contrast it with regional talks, see what most Americans think, and go from there. Agreed?

Kevin "Hack" King

Meaningful debate??? Is that where you espouse your ideals and I agree with them? Is anything less than that, meaningful in your eyes? Ok lets debate: I'll throw out some questions and then my opinions...then you respond. No personal attacks...Just responses to the questions. I don't want to debate candidates or their policies, because the true power lies in the congress, not with the President.

1. What do you believe is the single most important issue facing the American people today? I believe its illegal immigration. We need to secure our borders and deport "ANY" illegal immigrants (or as democrats say "Undocumented Citizens") I think it is undermining the very fabric of our country. Many people will argue that we need them to do the jobs others will not do. I say that's a bunch of malarky. You have to invest in Americas citizens in order to keep a strong economy.

2. Should we bring the troops home from Iraq? I'm going to surprise you here Hack. I think we should. However, I'm going to support them for as long as they are there. The longer we stay in Iraq, the more dependent Iraq will become on the US. I believe that Iraq's leaders really want to clean up the country, but they want to have the US around to blame for any problems that arise during the exercise. We need to begin pulling troops out, don't tell them when we are doing it, and become less and less of a presence in that country. The Iraqis need to start pulling there own weight.

Your Turn.

Or we just might end up drinking coffee and playing golf with Hutch and not behaving like proper political enemies.

I think people getting kicked out of their houses for their and their banks poor decisions is more of a crisis than people building their houses without proper social security cards. Troops stuck in pointless quagmires until they are dead, injured, or at the 15 month point is a bigger problem to me than undocumented maids and nannies. And, in a very republican of me way, the value of my dollar around the world and our indebtedness to China bother me.

Hack's priorities?

1. Get out of Iraq and let them be the sovereign nation we claim they are.

2. Take over for NATO in Afghanistan and KILL OSAMA BIN LADEN!!!!

3. Bring Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraqi leadership, Syria, and Jordan to the table and broker a joint strategy for cutting off safe havens for Al Qaeda. Emphasize the benefit of capitalism and economic growth in Iraq.

(1,2, and 3 are why I am voting for the Democrat.)

4. Start paying our bills; paying down this crazy deficit.

5. I think it is IMPOSSIBLE TO DEPORT 12 MILLION PEOPLE. Comprehensive reform is, I believe, the only possible way to address the people who run into us and then flee the scene. The guy who hit me? He had bought the truck he hit me with three years ago, and never registered it! How long could you or I drive around with no valid tags? Crazy!!!!!

Thanks for the measured debate. Most of us respond well to that.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

Hack, is this what you all will be discussing tomorrow? I'm trying to get into my daughter's head and figure out why she is not voting the way her mother does. I may attend with her tomorrow. Will I be enlightened? I disagree with you (your group/party/whatever)on many levels. How will it go tomorrow? Information? Facts? I went to a few Ba'hai (spelling?) meetings during my "seeking" phase and was impressed with the arguments they presented. Well...actually I couldn't argue with them. They were that good. What can I expect?

I understand your concern about the Looming Brown Menace, but the simple fact of the matter is, (and your Republican masters realize this), is that number of folks who believe that "Building a Fence" should be one of our nation's top three priorities is very very small (less than 5% of all voters, if I recall). As such, I feel it will be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to get any meaningful amount of public support for your position.

Glad to hear you are in favor of getting our troops out of Iraq...I think this matter has additional urgency now that Congress has indicated that it's okay for foreign nations to torture our troops (since Congress voted yesterday to give the lame duck President the authority to have anyone anywhere tortured).

and if I did it dang sure wouldn't be a political party. I make my own decisions about things without having to look to some "master" to give me answers.

I've seen that "less than 5%" phrase thrown around. Personally I think its just something to say so people will think that battling illegal immigration is a fight we can't win.

Like I said, I'm all for getting our troops out, the right way, not just up and pulling them out. As for foreign nations toruturing our troops, well war is hell. If it were the army of another country doing it, they might be held to the rules of the Geneva Convention. Fact is they are not soldiers in an army, therefore the rules don't apply in either direction. Do you really think that the terrorists wouldn't torture our soldiers if we said we wouldn't torture them?

That my friend is Naive!

"Do you really think that the terrorists wouldn't torture our soldiers if we said we wouldn't torture them?"

Culture of life conservatives baffle me with their twisted justifications for our country making it peoples' job and duty to torture other human beings. This is reprehensible. Using your logic we should start setting off bombs in markets as well. Wow! That isn't what I signed up for. That's not what the US flag means to me, my friend; not at all what it means to be AN AMERICAN!

That my friend is Naive!Kevin "Hack" King

I was mistaken with my 5% remark.

The actual number of Americans concerned about "illegal" immigration is actually 14% (as of 12/2007). Still a relatively paltry amount, imho.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/economy.poll.schneider/index.html

Unlike many posters here (particularly those suffering from parataxic distortion) I readily admit to errors of fact.

"Unlike many posters here (particularly those suffering from parataxic distortion) I readily admit to errors of fact."

Do you readily admit to errors of plagiarism? Or multiple identities?

Jeff C: "I would be interested in why my posting was duplicated by him/her ["Sniffles"] also. I believe we are owed an explanation of some kind."

Straight from his website:
"Talk to our Foes and Friends: Obama is willing to meet with the leaders of all nations, friend and foe. He will do the careful preparation necessary, but will signal that America is ready to come to the table, and that he is willing to lead. And if America is willing to come to the table, the world will be more willing to rally behind American leadership to deal with challenges like terrorism, and Iran and North Korea's nuclear programs."

Uh...Thats Bull!@#* ! So his plan is to talk to them. What are they going to talk about? Does he have a plan to present that everyone could execute and we'd be peaceful and happy? NO. His plan is the same as most liberals' plan. Give them what they want and they'll go away. Yeah right...that's just like blackmail. Once they get something from you they continue to have demands, until before long you've given them everything, Americas sovereignty, America's heart and America's soul!

Sounds like a great plan to me! NOT!

I support talking to Iran too. I would tell them the following: If Iran does not stop supplying IED’s and components to the Shia militia in Iraq and abide by the non-proliferation treaty with its nuclear reactors, we are going to start a major initiative with Saudi Arabia and we are going to supply them with more intelligence so that their Sunnis can more effectively counter Iran’s Shias. This will also include making more arms available to the Saudis. Furthermore, we are going to support Israel in its quest for a deal returning the Golan Heights to Syria if Syria will agree to end its support for Hezbollah and Hamas and allow verification of this agreement. After that, we are going to convene an international forum with Syria and Israel to negotiate a three-way peace deal over Lebanon which we are going to do our best to cut Iran out of.

Almost everybody would scoff at the idea of an Israeli/Syrian peace deal but the fact is that a deal has already been negotiated. It has not been concluded because of strong objections by the US and the Bush administration warning Israel not to negotiate with a state sponsor of terrorism.

Here is a story about the deal, the actual text of the negotiated treaty can be reached from a like at the bottom of the story:

Israeli, Syrian representatives reach secret understandings

Do you not think that pursuing this course would be better than our present policy vis-à-vis Iran?

Granted the talks might fail. If so, what has been lost? What would be your objection to talks along these lines?

Great post Jeff. Too bad our current President hasn't used more diplomacy in handling our past and current foreign affairs. And now McCain, with his 'Bomb Iran' mentality, looms on the horizon - and another 100 years in Iraq.

I wish you could have provided Bush with some much needed lessons, the past 7 years:

"I support talking to Iran too. I would tell them the following: If Iran does not stop supplying IED’s and components to the Shia militia in Iraq and abide by the non-proliferation treaty with its nuclear reactors, we are going to start a major initiative with Saudi Arabia and we are going to supply them with more intelligence so that their Sunnis can more effectively counter Iran’s Shias. This will also include making more arms available to the Saudis. Furthermore, we are going to support Israel in its quest for a deal returning the Golan Heights to Syria if Syria will agree to end its support for Hezbollah and Hamas and allow verification of this agreement. After that, we are going to convene an international forum with Syria and Israel to negotiate a three-way peace deal over Lebanon which we are going to do our best to cut Iran out of."

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will mean more ties with the US. That could further distance the House of Saud from the populace. The Shah faced a similar dilemma.
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

what I'm against is not having a plan when the talks fail or one of the parties involved doesn't hold up their end of the agreement. Then what? In your mind is there EVER a time when we should use military force?

Afghanistan was necessary.

Good job of research.
There are many others of course, but the word hypocrisy covers them pretty well!

Rule number one: Get into power by saying what they want to hear.
Rule number two: once in power, borrow it anyway so some get a tax cut.
Rule number three: Promise more tax cuts for reelection!

What kind of person sleeps well in his bed while 18-19 year old soldiers are blow apart? Go help them if that is the thing to do!

I suppose the Supreme Court of the USA over-ruling the Florida Supreme Court in a STATE matter about the Bush election re-count is for States rights?

It's getting quite old.

Like old Chinese Wiseman once said. You should go to Lake Peachtree and soak head.

so instead, go for the quick insult. That isn't working too well these days.

Kevin "Hack" King

What is it you think I should have answered? The first addressed a POTUS during a time of War. We've had almost every POTUS we've had deal with this. Clearly, this alter ego of his thinks Bush loves death. The 2nd question has been argued about for years. Are you trying to say Bush didn't win?

I guess he can't find either of the Lakes I spoke of, or else he would have settled down.

We have it rampantly.

Ignore most, if not all, problems done by my politicians, but blast all of the opposite party's.

It fools no one!

IF Lake Peachtree is too deep, please try Lake Kedron..

Sage, I beg your pardon, I did serve my time 20 plus years ready to do and in some case did violence on your behalf. I have over 2 years as a contractor “in country” working on close protection details. I thank God for the 17 / 18 / 19 /20 years olds who answer the call where service to ones country is still honorable and not your punch line. There will always be men and women willing to heed the call and pick up arms in defense of our nation, and in some cases, they will not always come home. They are the heroes, I’m just glad you have the right to voice your opinion. I say to you, what have you done to support them? Keep talking and they will keep on willing give their lives so you can continue your assault. Guess you’re a democrat who still can’t get over that Florida was a republican win. Can I count on your support for a McCain / Huckabee ticket this fall?

“Good people sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell

Just curious. But when you say we've been kept safe since 9/11, you have to step over the bodies of 4000 brave Americans to make that statement. I have spent the last week spending time with one such brave veteran that made it back from Bagram alive, but is very dismayed by the experience; the word futile comes up alot. Oh, and lots and lots of tears. 50 purple heart ceremonies a month; 10-15 funerals; people shooting themselves in the legs, butts, and arms to get out of country; destroyed relationships and marriages; I'm not being political, shadow. These are right from the mouth of a veteran who has been home for two weeks. Is she wrong?

Kevin "Hack" King

Just got this interesting email:

These are some rather eye-opening facts: Since the start of the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan, the sacrifice has been enormous. In the time period from the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 through now, we have lost over 3000 military personnel to enemy action and accidents. As tragic as the loss of any member of the Armed Forces is, consider the following statistics:

The annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2006:

1980 .......... 2,392
1981 ......... 2,380
1984 .......... 1,999
1988 .......... 1,819
1989 .......... 1,636
1990 ......... 1,508
1991 .......... 1,787
1992 .......... 1,293
1993 .......... 1,213
1994 .......... 1,075
1995 ...........2,465
1996 .......... 2,318 8 Clinton years @13,417 deaths
1997 .......... 817
1998 ......... 2,252
1999 .......... 1,984
2000 ....... ... 1,983
2001 ......... 890
2002 .......... 1,007 7 BUSH years @ 9,016 deaths
2003 .......... 1,410
2004 .......... 1,887
2005 ......... 919
2006.......... 920

These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the Middle East are LESS than the loss of military personnel during Mr. Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war? And, I was even more confused; when I read that in 1980, during the reign of President (Nobel Peace Prize) Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities.

These figures indicate that many of our Media & Politicians will pick and choose. They present only those 'facts' which support their agenda-driven reporting. Why do so many of them march in lock-step to twist the truth. Where do so many of them get their marching-orders for their agenda?

The latest census, of Americans, shows the following distribution of American citizens, by Race:

European descent (White) ...... 69.12%
Hispanic ...................................... 12.5%
Black.............................................. 12.3%
Asian ............................................... 3.7%
Native American ......................... . 1.0%
Other ............................................... 2.6%

Here are the fatalities by Race; over the past three years in Iraqi Freedom:

European descent (white) ..... 74.31%
Hispanic ..................................... 10.74%
Black ............................................. 9.67%
Asian ........................................... . 1.81%
Native American ......................... 1.09%
Other ...! ..... .. .................................... . 33%

These statistics are published by Congressional Research Service, and they may be confirmed by anyone at: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf

(Please look at this report site if you have the chance.)

Now ask yourself these two questions:

1. 'Why does the mainstream Print and TV Media never provide statistics like these?'

2. 'Why do the mainstream media hate the war as much as they do?'

Interesting way of presenting a pro-war perspective.

I heard a member of PNAC leadership explaining why they liked Mitt Romney. The second thing out of his mouth was, "Romney is pro war." Read that again. Conservatives are looking for a candidate that Likes War! Amazing! And you guys still can't figure out why you are going to lose your butts again. More stats for you: Record number of military suicides; majority of military contributions going to the anti-Iraq war candidates Obama and Ron Paul. Sleuth that Truth for me.

Kevin "Hack" King

You ask "Why does the mainstream Print and TV Media never provide statistics like these?'

Well, I guess it's because your statistics just aren't true.

If you look at the actual government statistics that you referenced, and you obviously didn't, you would find the true figures are much different!

Under America's Greatest Living Former President, William Jefferson Clinton:
1993 1,213
1994 1,075
1995 1,040
1996 974
1997 817
1998 827
1999 796
2000 758

Total for 1st six years: 5946 that's 991 per year on average

Compare that to Bush's 1st six years

2001 891
2002 999
2003 1,228
2004 1,874
2005 1,942
2006 1,858

Total 1st six years is 8792 or 1465 per year

It'll get worse once the last two years of Bush's carnage is included.

....and we're still not safe.

" ... your statistics just aren't true." Really? What part is untrue?

Please point out any alleged inaccuracy or apologize for lying.

In fact, you yourself quoted my accurately sourced statistics. (Yes, I did read them you were wrong to speculate otherwise - again - it was an email - I copied for the sheer interest in the approach to justifying the pro-war position) but there are always a few extremists on either side who aggressively deny the accuracy of any facts not in your favor.)

((You are not still angry for me pointing out that you misread the sports score of the basketball game are you? I seldom point out errors and usually do so, as with the basketball score, without belittling those in error.))

You have also attempted to compare the average 8 years of one President's statistics to a six-year average of another. Not goos sniffles. You will of course have to wait until the other two years of statistics are in to be able to compare an 8 year term to an 8 year term to get an accurate comparison.

(Would you like to compare the deaths in Bagdad to those in Detroit, New Orleans, Baltimore or St. Louis this year instead?)

I suspect that your attempt to mislead and your assault on the accuracy of this report (without any basis in truth I might add) explains why the left leaning media seldom reports these interesting facts.

I have been reading the blogs both past and preset and have come to the conclusion that you, main stream, and basmati are all the same person. You also, without question, are the most angry, disillusioned and rude of the bloggers on this site.

Is that also inaccurate?

Okay, now we go to school!

Take a look at the link in YOUR original post. Click it.

Go down to page 9.

Look at Table 4.

Compare the GOVERNMENT'S casualty figures for the years in question against the figures YOU claim to be "true".

Then compare MY figures to the GOVERNMENT'S figures.
Get back to me with an apology, m'kay?

Edited to add: Oh, by the way, if you have access to someone with a better grasp on mathematics than you evidently have, you might want to review my use of statistics. I did an apples-to-apples comparison of the first SIX years of each president's administration, NOT "six vs. eight" as YOU claim. Feel free to check my math.

I checked Snif's adding & dividing & his numbers are correct. (I usually do have a "good grasp" on math. Derogatory comment, Sniff?)

See page 11, Table 5, of the PDF.

( http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf )

While there have been 3857 casualties (3/19/03-11/06/07) and 450 (10/7/01-11/6/07) -- and I wish there had not been even one -- many more have died in previous wars:

58,200 Vietnam War
36,574 Korean War
405,399 WWII
116,516 WWI
498,332 Civil War (est.)

Murder Rates

"New York City had 570 slayings in 2004 and 597 in 2003. Los Angeles had 518 killings in 2004 and 515 in 2003."

"Chicago, where 448 people were slain in 2004 compared with 598 in 2003"

DOJ's Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program

"An estimated 16,692 persons were murdered nationwide in 2005."

"Murder comprised 1.2 percent of the overall estimated number of violent crimes in 2005."

"United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2006"

Actual 2005 -- 16,740 / 2006 -- 17,034 murdered

Yes, that's about 17,000 people die by murder yearly in our country. And I won't even mention the number of legalized killings done in the name of pro-choice. Just a little perspective. I'll leave the debate about a different war strategy, better preparedness, etc. that might have reduced the number of casualties for another time.

The source of sniffles anger

And yes, according to the most current statistics I could find you are correct and the email stats were indeed incorrect. Here are the most accurate figures I can find:

U.S. Active Duty Military Deaths 1980-2006

1980 .... 2,392
1981 .... 2,380
1982 .... 2,319
1983 .... 2,465
1984 .... 1,999
1985 .... 2,252
1986 .... 1,984
1987 .... 1,983
1988 .... 1,819
1989 .... 1,636
1990 .... 1,507
1991 .... 1,787
1992 .... 1,293
1993 .... 1,213
1994 .... 1,075
1995 .... 1,040
1996 ....... 974
1997 ....... 817
1998 ....... 827
1999 ....... 796
2000 ....... 758
2001 ....... 891
2002 ....... 999
2003 .... 1,228
2004 .... 1,874
2005 .... 1,942
2006 .... 1,858

It seems that more people actually died during the Bush years liberating those 20 million people and fighting terrorism after 9/11 than died in the Clinton years ... of course I suppose we could add those victims of ARKANSAS SUDDEN DEATH SYNDROME like:

- Number of persons in the Clinton machine orbit who are alleged to have committed suicide: 9
- Number known to have been murdered: 12
- Number who died in plane crashes: 6
- Number who died in single car automobile accidents: 3
- Number of one-person skiing fatalities: 1
- Number of key witnesses who have died of heart attacks while in federal custody under questionable circumstances: 1
- Number of unexplained deaths: 4
- Total suspicious deaths: 46
- Number of northern Mafia killings during peak years of 1968-78: 30
- Number of Dixie Mafia killings during same period: 156

And then there is always the 76 American deaths at Waco and those pesky Clinton detractors like Ron Brown, Vince Foster, James McDougal and Mary Mahoney. Oh gosh, the 1500 Yugoslavian civilians and the 168 at the Federal Building in Oklahoma City, the 1.2 million killed in Iraq by Hussein AFTER violating the cease fire and UN resolution and then there's the Paul Tulley, Ed Willey, Kathy Ferguson, Suzanne Coleman, well ... you get the idea - don't you?

Regardless, I stand with the military and the 20 million freed people in the middle east and you don't. You have that right. I respect your choice not to. I just don;t agree with you.

I just wish we could hear more about the successes in Iraq (especially since the 'surge'). Then again, that would not be in the best interest of promoting the anti-war agenda of the geriatric hippies last hurray.

Click here so you can once again hear from our beloved troops in Iraq.

Either way - you got to love that Clinton always enjoyed a good cigar and Bush doesn't smoke.... or inhale.

"Regardless, I stand with the military and the 20 million freed people in the middle east and you don't."

I show you the mathematical errors of fact in your original post and you try to make that into me not supporting the military?

Quite a leap in logic there, pal.

_______________________________________________________
The Question They Will NOT Answer:How Much Jail Time?

What I should have said is "I stand with the majority of the military and the 20+ million free Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan and you obviously support the minority of soldiers who do not support the war in Iraq or George W Bush".

Again, for the third time, I apologize.

Now, "Pal", could you possibly clear up this confusion for all of us who think you use multiple names and/or plagiarize others?

I haven't read the PDF but will. I posted something similar to this a while back but can't remember Snif's response.

Sniffy Basmati has a long history of being "the most angry, disillusioned and rude of the bloggers on this site." He and "Main Stream" surely sound alike.

As Jeff C recently posted, "I would be interested in why my posting was duplicated by him/her ['Sniffles'] also. I believe we are owed an explanation of some kind."

What was Sniffy saying about accuracy?

are you on the blog now? Is it possible to post to ourselves, if we are one and the same, at the same time, uh... you know what I mean.

I think she still believes we are the same person. If you would, reply back and this will possibly stop the speculation...

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GOD BLESS THIS MESS

How can I possibly reply when I am, in fact, you?

I'm sure she will think we are the same person until she spots us both at Starbucks again, someday.

Maybe we should ALL meet there, hold up signs with our user names, wave, and then go on our way. That might settle it.

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GOD BLESS THIS MESS

... and you are posting from the same router IP. Why not just chat with each other in person - you are obviously in the same house.

Let me just take a wild guess - you are using a Motorola modem, a wireless Linksys router and bellsouth is your ISP? How did I do?

You 'two' have a nice day 8)

dream on.

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Well, it's not always accurate ... I guess you COULD be different people. Gosh, I feel so .... dumb.

"I can name that tune in five notes."

I do have a question for you MainStream - why are those on the extreme right and extreme left always so angry and intolerant?

at "coffee" tomorrow? Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I may be there, in cognito...

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I'll be there long enough to verify the question, if possible. I think a joker will be there saying they are bpr, but no bpr--they don't exist!
Of course I will just be a regular customer observing the menagerie.

I have seen the real bpr. and incognito is good. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

_______________________________
"Hope Changes Everything"

Are you seriously saying that you don't see the difference between military deaths as a result of accidents and illness and military deaths as a result of hostile actions?

Dead is dead my young friend. My first military funeral was while serving as a color guard member for a 19 year old killed in a car wreck in Texas and I assure you that his family could not have been any more distraught regardless of where or how he was killed. I had a dear friend killed in Korea when an antenna he was erecting struck a power line. He was very dead JeffC and I was very distraught.

All I can assure you of is that I had both friends and acquaintances die both in conflict and 'peacetime' during the frequent 'war games' (exercises) we held as well as when engaging the enemy.

I am not sure what you are attempting to get me to say - I simply posted what I thought was an interesting email. (I usually do not post emails or cut and paste opinions by the way.)

You are free, as always, to draw your own conclusions. I hope I caused you to pause and reflect.

Again, I think it is an interesting way of making a pro-war statement.

I assume W is blame for the deaths under Clinton too.

You can't win that argument.
War causes casualties they will say!
Just don't dwell on them! Don't even show the caskets!

the elevated rate of suicide of returning soldiers/reservists/national guardsmen. Keep the faith.

Democracy is not a spectator sport.

I think now that the army will take people of 40 years of age.

How many of the total needed for their quota each month are anywhere near that age? Does that bolster your statement that there are men and women ready to heed the call and pick-up arms? I think not. The kids mostly need a job or something decent to do rather than flip burgers.
I have never known many 17-20 year olds who had any scant idea of what it would be like to face an enemy firing at you directly or getting blown off the road with a bomb, banging your brain around so that you will never be a normal adult!
It just goes on and on and on and on!

They do come home heroes to many but they didn't know what the price would be at their enlistment age. I didn't at 17.

You are so predictable. And how many pseudonyms do you need to make your ridiculous points?

Shades of Dick Loudon.

thou dost protest too much!!!

None of them answered this question:

"I suppose the Supreme Court of the USA over-ruling the Florida Supreme Court in a STATE matter about the Bush election re-count is for States rights?"

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

I didn't expect that one to be noticed! Scalito and company are a strange bunch for people who are supposed to be our protectors from tyranny! I think they want to protect us from us!