I think a commuter train from this side of town to down town atlanta is needed and wanted. I had a job in downtown and ended up leaving and getting one here in PTC because the commute in the mornings and evenings were so terrible. I wished there was a commuter train I would have loved to have kept that job. Being a former Marta police officer myself I will say there is crime near the rail but true crime is not imported into a town on the rail system. And like Bad_PTC stated a commuter rail is different than a regular train system. Most crimminals are not going to catch a train to go rob your house or the area. How many people have you seen with a plasma tv or furniture on the train? With traffic growing and gas growing there needs to be alternative choices to driving into atlanta. van pools are great but you still sit in traffic for an hour or more depending where you have to drive to. A train would be awesome because you could by pass most of the traffic and just get downtown. I personally have started riding a motorcycle for better gas savings and to take my suv off the road. I know I am rambling here now but please research the commuter train and see how it will benefit the communtiy.

You stole what I was going to say to everyone, now I have to come up with something different. I AM JUST KIDDING!

Thank You- At this moment untill I think of what I am going to say( it's me working with 4 yr olds all day with glitter in my hair etc.)

Merry Christmas-
Like I told you we may go to the same church and we don't even know it. ( Hint- We like Cont. Christian Music)

By the way where is Sky Spy- I blew my horn at a red corvertiable- wanted to see if it was him. Ha.

It wasn't me. I have been at work all day.

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas bpr.

I will get it right one day- be sure and WAVE at me. Are you staying here for Christmas, we always stay untill after Christmas Day, then we go see relatives in N.C. We may go sooner if my child does not stop playing my keyboard and the Van Halen song "Jump" That's what I get for marrying a guy in radio- huh.

Merry Christmas-spysky
Hey I got it if you see a suv hyundai it's a weird color- kinda maroon,burnt- I don't know what color it is- blow your horn and wave- I have a sunroof- ha- I can't afford a convertiable - My son is way too expensive- plus what will I do when he starts driving- Dad says he will earn money and buy his own car- you think my husband will do that?

Have a safe trip. I'll be working.

Merry Christmas

No wonder you have a convertiable and I don't. What is your other car like? I want to blow my horn and surprise you- My husband thinks I am a hoot, he is right- you see when I married him, I was so so so shy, I still am a little- but I had to meet alot of rock stars-(who cares) so that kinda brought the shyness out a little- he does like that I'm still a kid at heart.

Do you have to work???????? Come on it's Christmas- If you don't have relatives I am sure you could stand us.

Many of us work saving lives on christmas and other holidays. Firemen, policemen, paramedics, emergency dispatchers(911 operators) hospital staff, pilots, flight attendants and the lowly air traffic controllers. We all work to keep the rest of you safe. Have a good one.

Merry Christmas bpr, have a safe holiday.

I'll even bet that the Pentagon is open Christmas!
I remember eating a fake egg sandwich during battle stations!
However, none of this makes these people any better than others. That was and is the JOB!

I knew I was forgetting someone. I forgot the most important people.

To all of our armed forces THANK YOU!

You are right we all knew this was part of the job when we hired on.

you, Nitpicker, $, and all the rest of your merry group of characters served in the same outfit?
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I am sorry, that was really not nice of me, I did not think of that. Forgive me, thanks for the job whatever it is you do- now I feel like dirt.

Merry Christmas- Honestly I am sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one thinks of us, until they need us. We are used to it.

Take care, I'm meeting friends for dinner. Have a safe holiday.

I am sorry a million times, we do take people for granted- that I feel bad about! Hey, remember how I told you I did think your great, just think how great I think you are now. (I am kidding) But I really really mean it. Forgive me please.

I'm sorry. Working with that age group can be a task in itself. It can sometimes be "numbing". The same church? If the sound guy has a reverse "mohawk" it could very well be. Merry Christmas!!!!
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Since I have to wash all this glitter out of my hair, I do love thoese kids, I told Skyspy that they are therapy for my soul. I need that daily.

I also have 2 other part-time jobs I do from my house on the computer, yeah it looks like I am doing them, Ha. I go from screen to screen. Thankful it's on my own time.

I want to give my Son's band directors either a trophy or something to put on the wall- but I want it to be like one year say something(example Fayette's Best Band Director 2007-2008) but I can't say it every year, can you help me come up with some things to say- I need 4 of them - FAST- I have to buy it before Thursday for a present.

Thanks for your help.

Perhaps something as simple as gift certificate to a nice restaurant at least something that shows what they're doing is noticed. We can give it to them at the next band meeting. One thing for sure, if you can rally parent support for the band that would be a present that your band directors will truly appreciate.
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That is a great idea, I'm still trying to figure out how to rally these parents, there are a few that are very loyal, some- could not give a hoot- we are just big-girl-boy sitters, shame,huh?

That's fine with me, maybe they will remember I cared for them and I do.

I appreciate great teacher, I know my son went to E.C. West for two years, then God lead us to Arlington then now we are back here, anyway I gave his History/Math teacher at E.C. West (Fulton Co.) a trophy that said " My son's name- best teacher ever- This ex-marine had tears coming out and said nobody has ever given me something like this. That was Christmas.

Good story- my son went to middle school- this teacher is in Coweta County now, last year he was teacher of the year for Coweta, you can't ever repay a GREAT ROLE MODEL for your child.

Thanks Again!

I told Cy, I blew my horn at someone in a red convertiable, was that you? They went by me so fast, I could not tell who it was. I guess that is what you do in convertiables?

If they were driving a little fast that could have been me. Was the music too loud? That could have been me. I get a lot of dirty looks from cops about that. They hate my harmon kardon system. Which day??

I don't drive that car too much. Only when it is sunny, I have a car for bad weather too.

Merry Christmas, be safe if you are traveling.

I am trying to work on the computer, my son is in his bedroom using my keyboard figuring how to play "JUMP" by Van Halen, I don't know how old you are, but I must say this talent comes from Dad.

My husband does sound also, he's got lots of blond hair- we have 3 services at our church.- So maybe we do.

Ideas please- I'm in a panic- I will have to go and have it made up- I know I should have done it before now. I didn't . Thanks in advance.

Merry Christmas! Glory to God indeed.

... and Happy Winter Solstice to all!

Celebrate the Season

Happy Holidays

Have a safe and happy holiday season.

Stay safe and warm! By the way, I sense by your avatar and username, that you may be an amateur, or even professional astronomer. Am I correct? If so, my spouse is into Dopsonian's and refractor's. Are you?

Yes very, very amateur. I had to buy a telescope smarter than me(not too hard to do). I type in what I want to see and the telescope turns right to it.

Have a safe holiday.

you.

The last time someone wished me a "Happy Solstice" they were starting a coven.

sdg, I've visited some coven's and they're actually quite friendly, not at all like the ones depicted in movies or creepy books (no blood sacrifces or demonology!). There is a place, intown Atlanta, where drum circles are held weekly, kind of like a mini-coven, and you're invited, next time I go!

I'm curious, I noticed on your church's calendar that Christmas is celebrated. Are Christmas carols part of the program? I also noticed that winter solstice is not "celebrated"

Here's the link to your church that you provided.

UUCA
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Hi Cyclist,

Yes, we celebrate Christmas (you should see all the presents under our tree), and also Winter Solstice, the origin of winter holiday celebrations. I've added a writing from Holley Hewitt Ulbrich below that will explain, better than I can, what is celebrated and why. I'm on my 2nd glass of Shiraz Merlot, so a more concise explanation will answer your question more coherently, than I can this evening... cheers and thanks for asking.

"While most Unitarian Universalists do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, he is still important to our tradition. We believe that he was a prophet, like Buddha, Mohammed and other great religious teachers. Muslims share that view of Jesus.
Unitarian Universalists practice the religion of Jesus rather than a religion about Jesus. We count Christianity as one source of our faith, along with Judaism and other world religions, earth-centered spirituality, the teachings of humanism, the words and deeds of prophetic women and men, and the direct experience of mystery and wonder. So we celebrate the birth of Jesus, because he was a great man and a great teacher who taught by word and example how to overcome oppression without violence, and who showed and taught how to build and sustain a beloved and inclusive community.
Christmas offers Unitarian Universalists an opportunity to celebrate with customs and meanings derived from many faith traditions. No one knows the actual date of the birth of Jesus, but the time just after the winter solstice was originally chosen to coincide with pagan celebrations of the return of the sun and, with it, the promise of renewal of the days of warmth and light that follow. Earth-centered traditions such as Wicca and American Indian spirituality also honor the solstice, as does the Hindu festival of light and in some respects, the Jewish festival of Hanukkah.
Of the three Christian virtues of faith, hope and charity, the one Unitarian Universalists primarily celebrate at Christmas is hope — not only hope for the return of warmth and light (Winter Solstice), but the hope that is embodied in each new birth as a promise of what is to come.
Like many Christians, Unitarian Universalists celebrate this holiday with trees (a northern European pagan custom), gift-giving (part of the Roman Saturnalia celebrating the winter solstice, as well as many other pre-Christian traditions), food and gatherings of friends and family, and of course, worship services. We always sing that well-known Christmas carol, “It Came Upon a Midnight Clear,” written by a 19th century Unitarian minister. Along with the birth of Jesus, this hymn celebrates the focus on social justice and creating the kingdom of God on earth, which are central to Unitarian Universalism.
(We are less likely to include “Jingle Bells” in our worship services, even though that song was written by a minister of music at the Savannah Unitarian Church who was feeling homesick for his native Massachusetts.)
Christmas is a holiday that belongs to all who recognize Jesus as a significant figure in human history and a source of inspiration in their personal lives. As 16th century Unitarian minister Francis David of Transylvania said, “We need not think alike to love alike.” It is also true that we need not find the exact same meaning in the Christmas story in order to join in the celebration."

Holley Hewitt Ulbrich is Alumni Professor of Economics Emerita at Clemson University and earned a Master of Theological Studies from Emory University

Hi Main Stream.

Like Git Real, I have to take issue with your muddled religious beliefs.

While most Unitarian Universalists do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, he is still important to our tradition. We believe that he was a prophet. [snip] He was a great man and a great teacher who taught by word and example.

Have you ever heard of a guy named C.S. Lewis? He was a great Christian writer who came up with the great trilemma about Jesus: He was either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord. Because they are mutually contradictory, only one of those options are true. Your statements don't make sense -- you say that you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus (His central claim), yet you claim He was a great man. Let's look at this point by point.

1) He is a liar. You don't believe he is the Son of God, despite His many claims. What did Jesus say about Himself when the high priest asked "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" He said in Mark 14:62:

"I am"

If you're wondering, that phrase had a very special meaning to them and that let them know with no uncertainty that Jesus was claiming to be God himself. How can He be a "great man" if he was a HUGE liar claiming to be God? If you can't trust his "main claim to fame" (so to speak), how can you trust anything else He said?

In my opinion, he gave lots of truth: "blessed are the meek," "blessed are the pure in heart," "Blessed are the peacemakers," do not hate, "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," etc. If you believe he spoke the truth about most things, then why is it unreasonable to assume that He spoke the truth about who He was?

2) He is a lunatic. This one is pretty self-explanatory. Most normal people don't go around claiming they are God. We assume (and often rightly so) that people who make these claims have just a few screws loose. Again, how can He be "a great man and a great teacher" if He's nuts? That doesn't make sense.

3) He is Lord. Out of the 3 options, this is the only one that makes sense. Why does it make sense? I don't want to make this post a mile long (if you want specifics I will be glad to provide them!), but Jesus fulfilled many prophesies that were written many years before His birth. If you look at it mathematically speaking, the odds are infinitesimally small that those prophesies don't fit Him. Many people claimed, are claiming, and will claim that they are God. However, none of them had, have, or will have something to back up their claims like the prophesies and miracles.

If he is not a liar (prophesies about Him were true and history records them), if he is not a lunatic (He healed many people who were clearly mentally disturbed -- people couldn't tell the difference?), then logically He must be Lord.

gift-giving (part of the Roman Saturnalia celebrating the winter solstice

Well I can't argue too much with your other points because you are more or less right; the Church did take pagan holidays and "converted" them to Christian ones for people to celebrate. Their reasoning was that people would celebrate them anyway, so why not Christianize them? I can't say I fully agree with that, but Christmas was completely converted from a pagan celebration to a Christian one. Despite the time of year being incorrect historically speaking, it's still acceptable IMHO to celebrate it -- there's nothing wrong with celebrating the birth of God in human form and a time of reflection.

But this point is quite arguable -- the custom of giving presents very possibly originated with the Wise Men (notice I did not say 3 Wise Men ).

who showed and taught how to build and sustain a beloved and inclusive community

You liberals must read a different Bible because Jesus said in John 14:6

I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Let's go back to English 101. The is a definite article. It refers to one thing and one thing only. Jesus didn't say the following:

I am a way, and one truth out of many, and a life force.

He makes it very clear that He provides the only way of salvation. Not through good works (Islam) or meditation or righteous thoughts (Buddhism and/or other Eastern religions) but only through Him.

There's an old phrase "don't shoot the messenger." I'm only repeating His message. If you don't like it, talk to Him.

Merry Christmas!

"so the Bible tells me so..." I remember this song from my Sunday School, when I was a Presbyterian youth. I know, I know... it's in the Bible so it MUST be true, right?

I'm not going to knock Christianity, like you've been doing to Unitarian Universalism, however, the Christian evidence of divinity, trinity, etc., is based on your faith in the good book. "So the Bible tells me so.." (because it is in the Bible, it must be true - faith or logic?).

Like I wrote to muddle a while back, it is impossible to logically discuss an illogical topic, and most religions are illogical because they are based on faith, not logic.

If I ever see a miracle in my lifetime (rising from the dead, angels, a burning bush that speaks, a flood that covers the earth) then I may start believing. I try and base my beliefs on logic, proof, and science. I've never been a proponent of faith.

And no, I don't think Jesus was actually lying about himself, however, I do believe that the Bible was re-interpreted so many times by men who had ulterior motives, the motives of power and wealth. Motives to make Jesus 'divine', and therefore, build a religion around him to gain a following and power. Did Jesus really say those things, and think he was divine? He seemed much more humble than that. I think he was also a liberal (feeding the poor, despising the rich). And the Bible is STILL being re-interpreted today! I believe much of Jesus' original words and meaning, from 2,000 years ago, have been re-interpreted and manipulated for others to profit from.

And where are all those other Gospels, like the Gnostic Gospels and the Gospel of Thomas and of Mary?? Where is a good UNBIASED Bible scholar when we need one??

Good evening, Main Stream.

Hmm...I do have to wonder about your title: "penguin, git and muddle - tower of babble" which sounds similar to something Dollar said a while back....

"so the Bible tells me so..." I remember this song from my Sunday School, when I was a Presbyterian youth. I know, I know... it's in the Bible so it MUST be true, right?

Nope, I wasn't using the Bible per se to prove my point. You made the claim that Jesus wasn't divine, so I was just showing you Jesus' statements which disprove your claim. You may not agree with them, but everything I said I at least tried to back up with evidence. I'd appreciate it if you'd do the same.

I'm not going to knock Christianity

Frankly, in my opinion, you're not being honest. You made a claim that Jesus wasn't divine, and that is a "knock" against the Christian religion that millions of people believe. You are trying to discredit Christianity, and that is an attack in my view.

like you've been doing to Unitarian Universalism

Again, frankly, I'm just pointing out the many fallacies of Unitarian Universalism. In your quote above, Unitarian Universalism believes in Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, and probably The Force as well. That's absurd logically speaking -- Islam, Judaism, and Christianity all believe in monotheism (one God) while Hinduism believes in pantheism (many gods) and Buddhism has no God, and Wicca has the devil as their "god." All of these faith groups (monotheism, polytheism, atheism, and devil worship) are totally irreconcilable -- they are fundamentally, theologically opposed to one another. Logically, they all can't be right by the Law of Noncontradiction.

Here is another example: monotheists (Muslims, Jews, and Christians) claim that the universe had a beginning while polytheists (Hindus and New Agers) claim that the universe is eternal. Who to believe since they are both mutually exclusive? There's another logical law here: the Law of the Excluded Middle. Either the universe had a beginning or it didn't. There's no middle ground.

No one denies that most religions contain some elements of truth (i.e. love others, live righteously, etc.), but that doesn't mean they are the Truth. For example, legends frequently contain bits of truth, but that doesn't mean they are true. The different religions may agree on some minor points, but on the major points (who/what is God?, how do we live?, where are we going?) they disagree in many ways.

I'm not trying to be rude, but I think you need to admit that the real reason you are a Unitarian Universalist is because it's Main Stream's (your username, not the concept) religion. It's John Doe's religion. It's Jane Doe's personalized religion. You need to be intellectually honest and admit that you choose Unitarian Universalism because you can pick and choose "truths" from the Religious All-You-Can-Eat buffet and that's cool with everybody. Don't believe in God but in The Force? Cool...no problem. Believe in Allah? Each to his own.... Believe in a mushy, touchy, feely Jesus? More power to ya! Unitarian Universalism really believes in nothing by "believing" in everything.

As Blaise Pascal said,

People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.

Like I wrote to muddle a while back, it is impossible to logically discuss an illogical topic, and most religions are illogical because they are based on faith, not logic.

In my opinion, Christianity is the most logical faith out there for various reasons. Unitarian Universalism is not because it takes so many diametrically opposite religious faiths and tries to blend them.

If I ever see a miracle in my lifetime (rising from the dead, angels, a burning bush that speaks, a flood that covers the earth) then I may start believing. I try and base my beliefs on logic, proof, and science. I've never been a proponent of faith.

God Himself said "Come now, let us reason together." Christianity is not a blind faith. Yes, of course, some things you have to take by faith, but it is far from an unthinking, uncritical (logically), religion. That's why I do like St. Peter commanded: "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have."

I think he was also a liberal (feeding the poor, despising the rich).

If you make claims like that, be prepared to back them up. What did Jesus actually say that makes you think that?

And the Bible is STILL being re-interpreted today!

Yeah, you're doing a fine job yourself there.

And where are all those other Gospels, like the Gnostic Gospels and the Gospel of Thomas and of Mary??

Oh you mean that Gospel of Thomas? The one written 100-200 years after Jesus, which means that it has NO eyewitness accounts? You mean the one that claims Jesus said, "Every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven"? The sexist Gnostic Gospel? That Gospel of Thomas? It's been known for close to 2000 years that it's a fraud.

Where is a good UNBIASED Bible scholar when we need one??

I assume that little jab is directed at me, and I'll just say this: I'm not a Bible scholar nor claim to be, but I do know enough Bible 101 and Logic to defeat your flimsy arguments.

First of all, Wicca does not celebrate or worship the devil. Christians believe in the devil, and to my knowledge, Wiccans do not.

And I find it amusing that you say I am the one feasting at the religious buffet, picking and choosing the most satisfying offerings layed out before me on the table, when it seems the other way around. If you believe in something, for example the Bible, then believe it wholeheartedly. Believe in it and implement it in your life, the way it is written, and don't pick and choose from the all-you-can-eat Bible Buffet.

For you penguin: The Bible Really Says This

Heh...thanks for the chuckle, Main Stream. I found it a bit amusing that you couldn't rebut one of my arguments and instead picked out one little thing I said.

But you're right: I goofed a bit in my comment about Wiccans. I didn't express it the way I meant it -- Wiccans are influenced by witchcraft which has roots in black magic, demons, etc. Sorry for any confusion.

Believe in it and implement it in your life, the way it is written, and don't pick and choose from the all-you-can-eat Bible Buffet.

Umm...isn't that exactly what you are doing in your Unitarian Universalist church? You do pick and choose because you accept some of the teachings of Jesus but not all of them.

But to answer your question (I think it's a question), sure, I'll try to live by the Bible. Will you live by your set of mutually contractive, illogical hodge podge of religious beliefs?

Let me make it clear: I don't have any problems that you believe the way you do. If attending a Unitarian Universalist "church," going to covens, and linking to a militant atheist site is what you believe, that's your choice. We live in a free country. That doesn't mean though that I won't disagree with you and try to show you why I think you are wrong.

Anyways, have a nice week.

Your misunderstanding of Wiccans, and their beliefs, shows me that you’re like most folks who perpetuate ignorance of another’s religion, instead of attempting to learn and understand a different belief system using an open mind. An open mind will perpetuate tolerance and respect – a closed mind will perpetuate the hatred, violence, wars and intolerance we continue to see in this world, everyday.

Again, for your information, Wicca has nothing to do with witchcraft, demons or black magic. The word “Wicca” comes from the old Anglo-Saxon word ‘wicce’, pronounced “witche” and this is where the misunderstood term “witchcraft” comes from. The Wicca religion is very non-violent and a basic tenet is to “do no harm” and to live in harmony with the earth. Wow, sounds scary doesn’t it!?

And I shared that link with you because it shows some very distasteful views written in the Bible, that have been ‘sanitized’ (muddle’s word) and even discarded, and that you, as a believer, are not living by. Concluding that you pick and choose from the Bible, what you want to adhere to and how you conduct yourself. If you believe in what the Bible says, then you and everyone else who works on Sunday should be killed, slavery is alright, women should be submissive, rowdy teenagers should be stoned to death, you should eat flesh and drink blood, non-believers and followers of other religions should be killed, homosexuals should be killed, you should sell everything in order to enter heaven (Jesus says this)…. Well, I could go on and on about what is actually written in the Bible, but you get the idea. So, you pick and choose and “sanitize” the Bible, and only extract the portions of the Bible you find tasteful. And the rest of it, well, it’s just too uncomfortable to discuss and so the Bible continues to be re-interpreted for it to fit into modern society.

Unitarian Universalism does try and incorporate all religions, with an open mind, into the way that we live our lives. I feel blessed, and at peace, that I’m able to look at the positive tenets of another religion, and incorporate these into my everyday life! However, it’s hypocritical of you, and ‘the gang’ on here, to blast me and my beliefs, while you continue to extract certain portions of the Bible and incorporate only the sanitized bits, into the way you live your lives. You are doing just the same as you accuse me! Modern day Christianity “sanitizes” the Bible, and sets up a huge Bible Buffet for all believers to feast at!

I don’t expect you, or anyone else in these forums, to ever understand or even try to learn about my religion, with such a closed mind.

Ignorance is curable
The closed mind is terminal.

From talking to the penguin both here and in person, it's apparent to any thinking adult that he wholeheartedly believes in the Bible, which part is he leaving out. It seems to me that you demand from others what you yourself decline to give, or to make it simple for you, you accuse people of doing exactly what you do to them, only when you do it it's OK. I don't have a horse in this race, just a neutral observer and that seems to me to be your tendency .

I yam what I yam....Popeye

Wish I had more time for this, but here...

Believing something that is flatly contradictory is neither virtuous nor a manifestation of faith. Faith is not opposed to logic. I have faith in my wife. I would believe anything she told me, even if there was no substantiating proof or evidence, and even if the evidence seemed to suggest something else. But I also know that she does not possess incompatible properties.

And my faith in my wife is not incompatible with my having strong supporting evidence for what she tells me.

Perhaps it is possible to be warranted in affirming some religious belief without any evidence or proof. After all, many of our beliefs seem warranted, and they are warranted despite a lack of proof. (I have no proof to offer the man who thinks that we are all really in the Matrix. All of the would-be evidence that I have to offer is readily accomodated by his "Matrix theory.") Suppose that the one and only divine being is a goddess named Sheila. And suppose that Sheila makes herself known in a direct way to the hearts of her followers. Sheila detractors (see Hitchens' new book: Sheila Is Not Great will say, "You have no evidence! I can explain away your religious experiences of Sheila in terms of your psychology!") will think the "Sheilites" irrational. But if is is true that Sheila exists and that her followers have an immediate awareness of her, then they would seem quite rational or warranted or justified in believing in her despite the lack of public evidence.

But the minute they begin saying things like, "Sheila both exists and does not exist at the same time and in the same respect" then we know that what they say is false.

Anything that entails a contradiction is not only false but necessarily so.

Your own views on religion either (a) dismiss the actual claims of actual religious believers worldwide, or (b) entail a contradiction.

And if you are looking for a solid Bible scholar, you can do no better than N.T. Wright, Oxford educated and Bishop of Durham. www.ntwrightpage.com

_______________

My Opie impression: circa 1963.

"While most Unitarian Universalists do not believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ, he is still important to our tradition. We believe that he was a prophet, like Buddha, Mohammed and other great religious teachers. Muslims share that view of Jesus.

Thanks for clearing that up for me Main Stream. So according to what you believe then I'm to logically assume that Jesus Christ was not who he said he was. That would make Jesus a liar? Soooooo.... Jesus Christ is a liar you say? Yikes!

I can see why your religion is so tempting to many a man. You can believe in whatever the heck you choose and all is cool with Jesus, Allah and the fat dude made of clay. So... If I become one of you, all I need to know is which one grants me the most wishes. I suppose that would be the clay fat man. Just rub his stomach and you git money for nothing and chicks for free.

------------------------
I never tell lies about people on my blog.
Especially if I think the truth will do more damage.

I think it is a hoot to believe in Allah, yeah why didn't "Ole Bin" fly the planes into the towers, I mean with all that virgin bit. Because it;s not so. HOnestly you feel sorry for the people, Budda, now that's a joke= THE THINGS PEOPLE WOULD BELIEVE-INSTEAD OF USING THEIR BRAIN?

MERRY CHRISTMAS- GIT

meow! Wow, that was catty!

Is he a liar and did he lie to all of mankind. If he was just another flunky butt prophet as you claim he is then, am I to assume that he is also a liar and a hoaxster?

In his own words, at multiple times, he claims he is God incarnate and that he is also the one and only path to an eternal fellowship with mankind's creator. I'm trying to see your way, but first I need to verify if Jesus is actually a liar and a deceiver..... or not.

___________________

I never tell lies about people on my blog.
Especially if I think the truth will do more damage.

Your question perfectly illustrates the problem with the sort of pluralism that groups like the Unitarians attempt. They can say that they "respect" all of the world's religions, but only after each has been carefully sanitized (or, to change the metaphor, "castrated") to be rid of any claims to genuine truth. But through history and cross-culturally, adherents of religious conceptual systems have, by and large, taken the truth claims of those systems to represent things as they really are. And this is seen as the whole point in adhering to those claims. Along comes the pluralist Unitarian to tell them all, "No, they do not represent things as they really are, and, besides, truth isn't the issue." Thanks very much. I should rather have my beliefs treated as genuine contender for truth, though false, than as not a contender at all.

________________

My Opie impression: circa 1963.

I really tried to see what you were saying in this one since it was "short."
I gave up after: pluralism, sanitized, castrated, cross-culturally, conceptual systems, and of course "truth."

Is it that you do not understand what the word means, or that you don't think that there is such a thing?

If the former, then I'll explain it now. A statement is true just in case what it reports corresponds to what there is. (E.g., "It is raining in PTC" is true just in case, when it is uttered, it is, in fact, raining in PTC. "There is a God" is true just in case there is a being who fits whatever description is implied by the word. Pretty easy stuff, no?)

If the latter, am I to infer that you think it is true that there is no such thing as truth?

________________

My Opie impression: circa 1963.

Once a man rejects orthodoxy, he begins to believe in anything (so said Chesterton). Unitarian Universalism is the final stage of the rejection of belief. I wonder how many children of Unitarian Universalists actually carry on their parent's "faith"? Not many I suppose. Next stop on this train: neopaganism.

you sound familiar...

By the way, do these 'other' religions threaten you in some way? I'm not trashing your religion, so why trash mine?

...and your reponse is warranted. I'm sorry for the criticism of your beliefs. I'm a Catholic - -we don't pass out tracts or knock on doors. Merry Christmas to you and your family!!

Well then a Merry Christmas to you and your family as we celebrate His birth.
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I have never understood how one can be so different from himself!
It is like a switch turns on and off!
Is that what religion is all about (as they say)?

That's so funny coming from you.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

Hope you and family have a very Merry Christmas and Wonderful New Year.

Thank you Jane. You know, with Git going to "Okie-homma" you can escape from your cube.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

and I fully intend to!!! School is closed next week, so I get the entire week off. However, I sure could use some afternoons this week . . .guess I'll have to find some business errands to run!!!

Not a good day for cycling. No jet engines turning. Many nice cars and bad drivers have fallen victim. And one fellow pilot did a quite impressive elbow, then shoulder, then hip, then back type of slip and fall yesterday. More impressive than the slip and fall itself was his ability to string together several very adult words and phrases as he struggled back to his feet. It is probably a blessing that I couldn't get my car out of the parking lot!!

Kevin "Hack" King

Take care and be safe Hack!