Growing up, I got the wooden spoon a few times, and don't even talk about "go get me a switch".

My Mother used to make me go get my own switch and woe be unto me if I came back with some whimpy little branch.

It was tough, but I think we were better for it in the long run. We never, but never thought of doing things like this. My parents were tough, but I got through life without getting arrested....so far anyway.

Pre-emptive violence to prevent violence?

Brilliant!

It is an "old fashioned" means of discipline.

The only difference between the "new wave time out" and the old fashioned way is that the old way WORKED.
Back in my day we didn't have these problems. We are seeing the sad evidence of a generation of kids that have never experienced any consequences for their bad behavior.

You know my parents were strict, very strict and now I see why. I knew better than to be disrespectful- or else. Now I know that they did it because they loved me and wanted the best for me. I see Parents ignore their kids, their needs come first, I'm sorry but when you have a kid you find out quick your life is on hold. Their needs come first. It's hard to even find a kid with good manners- a simple thank you. Parents need to take time for their kids, it's hard to fit in this fast pace world now. But, I know if I do it they could choose to do it also. I work 2 seperate jobs just so I can be home when my child is out of school and in the summer, could I make more money elsewhere, yes- but my child is more important.

Here's a true story.

My Minnesota neighbors were an enlightened young couple. We all lived in Paul Wellstone's home town, a bastion of liberal thought.

When they had their little boy, Tommy, they concluded that spanking is barbaric. A store downtown that sold crystals and advertised Chakra adjustments (or something) also sold a bumper sticker: "It's never OK to hit a child." My well-meaning neighbors adhered to this religiously." The "time out" was the disciplinary measure of choice.
Wooden spoons were only for stirring potatoes.

Tommy proved to be very strong willed.

On one momentous occasion, Tommy acted up. His mom was strict. "Tommy, we cannot tolerate this behavior. You have a time out." She directed him to a chair, set off in a corner specifically for this purpose.

Tommy refused to stay in the chair. he was up.

Mom put him back in the chair.

Tommy got up.

Mom took him to his room. "Stay in your room until I tell you to come out, Tommy."

Tommy came out.

She finally locked the door to the room so that Tommy could not disobey by leaving.

Tommy urinated in the carpet.

To make a long story short, this couple came to a conclusion that I believe is inevitable: If you have a child whose will is strong enough, you'd better be able to back up your more benign discipline with raw physical force.

The bumper sticker philosophy is complete nonsense. A better philosophy, I think, is that, though there is always a standing rule against physically striking anyone--including one's own children--there are occasions in which that presumptive rule is overturned. In the case of children--as in the case of Tommy--this occurrs when there is direct and wilful defiance of parental authority.

Curious, as you work with students wonder what you think. I've heard it discussed that because our generation, babyboomers; and then generation X, all about me types; has contributed greatly to the way kids behave now. As some babyboomers were into, various types of relaxation activities; was a generation of rejecting "the establishment", free will and free love thinking sorts. . .these parents still have some of that "forget the establishment mentality". Because the parents, in a way, still buck the establishment, still have some of those 'hippie' ideals, of course they are not going to discipline like the old folks used to.

By the same token the gen Xers were so into me me me, I'm all that counts, this too has resulted in kids who think no further than the end of their nose.

Interesting theory. If some folks look back to their teenage years, even though we got some form of physical punishment, and had stricter parents, some still pushed the envelope to be "cool" - now these "cool" folks are the parents . . .what did we expect?!

I totally agree with you. I have a strong will child, as a young child he was strong will and still is. As a young child time- out did not work, even spanking did not work. Growing up my husband and myself parents did spank us. We did notknow what to do, he simply did not care what we did. So, what worked for us was to take toys away, t.v., etc. Now he is a teenager and we have to do the same. Spanking worked with my husband and myself and it did not kill us or make us into bad people. People need to correct their kids. Alot of things are just ignored.

I do fight the battle with my child that his friends parents are not like us- that we are too hard on him. This is simply because some parents don't want to take the time and engery to correct the child. In the long run they will regret it. Not that my child is perfect, but he does know his choices may cost him.