When we become Christians our lives are given to God. He is in control and charge of our life. If we become sick we pray for God's Will to be done. Because His Will will be done anyway, because He is control of our lives. Do I believe God still heals some- yes- He is God and in control. Does He not heal some- yes- His will is different for their lives.

When my Mom had COPD for years and it came down to her final moments, I so wanted to pray for her to be healed. But, I knew God was in control- so I prayed for His Will to be done, but I also prayed if it had to be that she go on to heaven, please let it be easy, peaceful and for God to get the Glory!

My Mom died, my heart is still broken, but I saw the mercy and love of God in a difficult situation- it was easy, peaceful and He gave me Grace beyond I can describe.

Would I love to have my Mom back- yes, of course- I do know she is not in pain. I miss her- My sister died 4 months before her. I just know God is God and I am not. I trust Him- He knows my hurt, and He will be with me untill the end.

seek counseling.

Why? Do you even believe in God? I am fine, God is God regardless of what anyone thinks. Counseling- because I believe in God?

No, I'm afraid you have it wrong--at least as far as those who pray for healing are concerned.
Whatever happens about praying for someone sick is what was supposed to happen.
I think healing of someone who may not be "saved," depends solely upon what is supposed to happen, and has little if anything to do with their status.
Of course if the are saved and they do get better, why not take the credit!
I don't mean to sound ir-religious here, just trying to explain what I have learned over the years from the answers given by others.
The "praying" mostly benefits the group praying, I think!

God is the God of this universe. He is in charge of our lives, regardless Christian or not. It does not matter if we want him to be in charge or not. He gives life and takes life. Yes, we should pray, but as a Christian I pray for God's Will to be done, because in the end since He is in control whatever happens is what he wants. I do believe if you want to pray for the person to be healed that is fine, it could happen- but it was God's Will for them to be and He gets the credit. He is a loving God regardless the outcome.

I miss both my Mom and Sister deeply, it hurts daily. They were Christians, I am glad I have the hope of seeing them again, which I will. Did I want to be healed, yes. My Mom fought Copd for 26 years: her body gave out. I am not mad at God, I know He knows what's best. Would I love to have them back, of course- but I am glad they are not suffering. My heart breaks daily with them not being here, but I know they are in good hands with God. Healing from the hurt of them being gone is the hardest thing. But, my hope is in God.

Too bad these preachers won't weigh in on such discussions. Is it because most preachers don't do theology anymore, but think instead of themselves as business managers or therapists?

bpr wrote: since He is in control whatever happens is what he wants

The author of the best-selling Purpose-Driven Life suggests something similar.

Let's test this theory. In February, 2005 John Evander Couey abducted and raped 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford. Then he tied her hands with stereo wire and buried her alive. Her body was found weeks later, with a stuffed dolphin clutched between her bound hands.

Surely you don't think that God's "control" (sovereignty?) requires our thinking that this event was something that God wanted included in the history of his creation? Isn't it more likely that Couey wickedly misused his God-given free will to do this, and that few things could have been more contrary to "what He wants"?

Do you think the two have anything in common. The man that killed that little girl was not God's Will, it was his free will. I am certainly not defending someone killing someone and saying it;s God's Will-

But God is still in control, and we make our own choice to follow His word(Bible) or not. The two have nothing in common. We were talking about God healing- The man chose to kill her- his choice, certainly not God's.

I still believe God is in control of my life and others, we make our own free will choses to follow His Word(Bible) or not.

When someone is sick, could die, God already knows the outcome, I trust Him, He is a loving gracious God that is not out to hurt us. Do I believe people are still healed, yes everyday. But, it's His Will.

On 9-11 God did not make the choice to crash planes into the buildings, but man and his own free will chose to do that- with help from Satan.

Who did I turn to and make sense of such a horriable thing, God. I did not blame Him for something that someone else chose to do. They don't even know THE TRUE GOD. So, how do you make sense of all that happened?

God was still in control- He is God. These men do not give any regard of the TRUE GOD they do not even care for human life. It was their choice not God's.

Do you believe God is in control?

Remember we make choices that we have to live with if we don't follow God's word.

My heart breaks for that little girl and her family- I could not even begin to know how they feel. But, please do not make it sound like I said it was God's will. The man didn't even know God.

My God love people- he doesn't kill them.

Fair enough.

I took you to be expressing a more general principle that you were applying in the case of prayer and healing. So you actually agree with me that not everything that happens is what God wants to happen.
Cool.

I'll ask another question. Is it that the only true prayer is "Thy will be done?" I mean, is there no room for our aiming to influence or even alter God's will? The very concept of petitionary prayer seems to suggest that God has set things up in such a way that our asking may make a difference in the outcome. (Let me parse this. It means that, in such cases, had one notprayed the outcome would have been different.)

As I see it, there are two extremes here: One that says that God will do whatever we ask (so long as we meet the qualifications regarding faith, "being established" and the like, and then one that says that God's will--and the outcome--were predetermined independently of any requests on our part. I'm not new to thinking about this stuff, but I still don't understand where along this continuum we should be.

bpr answered you questions- and susieq is asking questions, and I don't see any response from you when bpr answered you.. What's your take on all of this? I told Susieq to ask Father David Epps.

Hi, Lilly.

I'm not sure what you have in mind. Where waqs an answer from me expected? I think my last comment was something like "I've thought about this stuff a long time and am still not sure what I think."

I'm happy to continue the discussion. WHich part of "all of this" do you want my (admittedly tentative) "take" on?

Where were there questions from SusieQ? Sure, tell her to ask Father Epps this stuff. I am a layperson.

I do believe, with bpr, that God is ultimately sovereign. I do not think that this sovereignty precludes our doing things that God himself does not intend for his creation. I think that our having significant free will was a necessary condition of our loving (or spurning) God as well as for our developing any actual virtues (or vices). Assuredly, God could have created a world full of creatures much like ourselves, but he could instead have programmed the outcome in all of its rich detail. But then, when Jones lifted his hands in praise to God it would have been Godlifting Jones' hands in praise to God. I assume that God wanted Jones'love and adoration, rather than the sort of behavior that one sees in, say, a Muppet.

(In a more apologetic setting I would argue that, all other things equal, a world in which love and virtue are possible is of greater moral worth than a world in which they are not possible. A world full of programmed robots is a world in which neither love nor virtue is possible. But since love and virtue require free will in order to be possible, it follows that such a world also will include the possibility of hatred and vice. It follows that, all other things equal, a world in which hatred and vice are possible is of greater moral worth than a world in which they are not possible.)

In any case, I believe that God can ultimately accomplish his purposes in human history despite the many ways in which we miss the mark.

The "extremes" that I had in mind on the prayer question are these.

(1) Malcolm Muggeridge once said, "The only true prayer of the Christian is 'Thy will be done'" I take MM to have meant that our task is not to try to influence or alter God's will, but to acquiesce in it, whatever it turns out to be.
I can tell you, though, that during my wife's recent near-fatal illness, I was not out to conform my own will and desires to any old outcome. I was pleading for mercy and healing (and seem to have been granted both).

(2) Televangelists speak as though a desired outcome of prayer is like an algorithm. So long as you have the right formula, you get what you want.

I think both (1) and (2) are mistaken. Contrary to (1), the New Testament clearly instructs us to petition God with our concerns, and we are told that the prayers of the rightoues "availeth much." Against (2) is the realization that God is not a cosmic vending machine from which we may extract whatever we wish so long as we have the right combination of coins. Not to mention the oft-ignored fact that, clearly, many fervent prayers go unanswered--or are not answered in the way desired. The only way the televangelists can account for this is to suggest that in the case of those "unanswered" prayers, there was insufficient faith, or the like. But this flies in the face of what I and most other people know to be true.

So I'm somewhere in between (1) and (2).

A good discussion of this stuff is a largely ignored book by C.S. Lewis, Letters to Malcolm Chiefly on Prayer.

I am sorry if I offended you with what I said. I don't see Susieq on the comments anymore. I read bpr and you and Susieq comments. It just seem like Susieq was not being nice with the way it was written.

I am a Christian, sometimes if you write about these things people will attack you and try and bother you or make you look like something that it is not. That was my answer to Susieq. If she was trying to be nasty about what bpr said she should ask Father David Epps or etc.

From what I read from bpr- she is saying God is God and she is not. She trusts Him. I do believe that she does believe in praying, that she did not want her Mom or Sister to die, but could see that their bodies were giving out. She even said that she still believed God could heal them if He wanted. But if His will was to take them, then His will be done. Yeah, I am sure it hurt alot. She does not need comments from people questioning like Susieq was doing.

I think she was saying in the end it is still all God's Will, that it is not wrong to pray for healing. But also, to people who say oh, they were not healed because of etc. etc. etc. that is not the case. Becaue God is still in control.

Again, sorry if you thought I was being rude, I just didn't see a reply and thought that you didn't have one. Especially if Susieq was going to give her a hard time.

I was trying to help another believer. I;m glad that you and bpr and myself are Christians. Thanks for your support on such subjects now and in the future.

I am not saying that we should not pray only for His will to be done. I do believe that we should pray from our heart- meaning He already knows what I want to happen. Can praying influence God's Will, I think so, but we have to remember that God is all knowing, He knows what we will pray a certain prayer and what the outcome will be.

When we pray I do believe praying from your heart, He already knows our thoughts, desires on what we are praying about. Do I pray for my unsaved friends to be saved, Yes - if I didn't they may not come to Christ. Do I pray for people to be healed, yes but I always end it may your will be done. I do believe our praying can change the outcome, but still it's His Will, His ways are not like ours sometimes. Alot of times we don't see things the way God does, we don't see the big picture of what is to come. We can be selfish in our prayers because of our desires.

Yes, I do believe in our aaking may have a different outcome- but it is still His will. I do not believe we get everything we pray for because if God is in control of lives, what we pray for may not be the best for us. He either answers yes, no or wait a while or even answer the pray instantly. I have to trust and have faith that I trust Him no matter what.

My Sister and Mom passed away about 3 years ago- my sister 4 months before my Mom. My sister did not listen to the doctors and did not quit smoking etc. to prolong her life. That killed me seeing her do this, but I could not make her do it. I thank God I lead her to Christ before she died - she was dying and that was the only hope I could give her. Did I want her to live- more than you will ever know. Her body was just wearing out.

My Mom had COPD she fought it for 26 years. Did I pray for her to live, yes I did, God answered my prayer for 26 years. Then came the time her body wore out from her condition. At that time I knew she was going to heaven- The hardest thing in my life I had to do is pray was God if this is what you want please please let it be easy, not painful. I just knew at that moment that her body was going- do I believe in that God could have healed her, yes, but I also knew our bodies when we have a condition can only last so long.

I am still not over it, I am not mad at God. It was HIS WILL for them both to go to be with Him. My Mom died peacefully- it was so amazing- she was sleeping and then just stopped breathing. It was like she just went to sleep.

I cry daily, not because I am mad at God- but because the hurt of them being gone is so overwhelming. I just know God's ways are perfect. Does He know my hurt. Yes. My prayer now is that He heals me from the intense hurt I feel daily. It has not happened yet. But, I still keep praying- HE IS MY ONLY HOPE. I do believe that my praying for the hurt to leave will come one day- so yes I do believe praying can make the difference in the outcome. But no matter what I trust Him.

I do agree some think, if you pray they should be healed and they are not healed that they believe something is wrong in their life-sin etc. We are have sin in our life daily, not because we want it- it's human nature. We should ask forgiveness daily, but what if we dont does that mean it's because of that,no. I do believe when we pray we have to be Christians or God does not hear us. To me I just believe He is in control and yes I pray from the heart.

When the women who had tried physicians to no avail was healed by 'touching but his clothes', Jesus told her - Woman, they faith has made thee whole. There are those who have experienced healing - because of their 'faith'. One can demonstrate only what they 'understand'. Many medical doctors have marveled at the recovery of those who have 'faith'. What many Christians have difficulty with is that 'eternal life' is spiritual - not material. This is an understanding that promotes healing of physical ailments as well as relationship, economic, and political problems. In my experience, this has been demonstrated - based on 'faith'.