7 objective reasons to oppose Kohl’s big box project as detrimental to PTC

Tue, 09/25/2007 - 3:18pm
By: Letters to the ...

I had a woman tell me last week my standards are too high. Her comment came as a result of my views in the ongoing Kohl’s debate.

What I found so puzzling about her comment on my “personal standards” was the fact the Kohl’s proposal fails to comply with any of our city standards at all. I find it incomprehensible to think someone could berate another’s values when they make theirs up as they go.

Several homeowners’ association presidents have asked me to appear at some meetings to present the other, more objective, side of the Kohl’s debate. Since I have commitments in the evenings as a youth soccer coach, father and other projects, the objective side of the argument is listed below.

First, there is no way we should acquiesce to the demands of a developer who flies into town and threatens us with harmful development if we refuse to sell him city-owned land and abandon our comprehensive plan and city ordinances.

History shows the true character of a people is proven in times when they muster the ability to face difficulty or uncertainty without being overcome by fear or being deflected from a chosen course of action.

With his current local holdings, the developer in question here had a wonderful opportunity to become a pillar of our community, but he showed little desire for anything like that.

In fact, he had to have the assistance of a former mayor, Joel Cowan, who takes a lot of credit for the city’s success, to make the big box possible.

Second, the developer bluff is pure smoke. We do not have the demographics for a Hooters and he must have a big box to succeed. The proposed big box site is tied up with options and can revert back to the owners.

Third, the city’s comprehensive plan unmistakably focuses on village center retail consisting of stores with a smaller footprint serving the village. Consequently, the city’s big box ordinance specifically prohibits big box development and it clearly lists the rationale for doing so.

Our comprehensive plan and our ordinances are, in fact, the city’s standard for development. Anyone claiming a Kohl’s belongs on that site or any other site is simply making up their own standard for the present moment. They care not about the historical relevance of what made our city a great place to live.

Around seven years ago, the city created a task force to specifically address the Ga. Highway 54 West corridor. The task force worked diligently on a plan that blended with the existing standard of Peachtree City. In fact, a consultant hired by the city developed a plan which had an urban, big-box feel and the task force vehemently threw it out.

The task force of local citizens created a design more consistent with our historical planning values, and the Atlanta Regional Commission rewarded the effort with some large cash grants for infrastructure. The task force plan did not include more big box stores.

If you allow the Kohl’s, it will only be the beginning. The project will set a harmful precedent. If you want an example of the dangers of setting a precedent, look at the current Lowe’s lawsuit for a site on TDK and Ga. Highway 74.

Fourth, it was shocking to hear people dismiss the traffic from the proposed Kohl’s shopping center and with comments like, “The traffic is going to be bad anyway.” Are we so dim-witted as to have completely forgotten the traffic congestion nightmare we very recently had on Hwy. 54 West?

Are we foolish enough to think we are not heading back in the same direction with building more regional stores?

Fifth, some of Kohl’s claims being made are tantamount to someone trying to sell ocean front property in Iowa. It is ridiculous to think the big box Kohl’s shopping center is going to look like The Avenue. Even City Council members are making this claim.

When you review the square footage of each individual store and the parking requirements, the Kohl’s will look as much like The Avenue as the Target center does.

The Kohl’s representative and others claim their store does not draw from a regional market. Nothing proves that claim more illogical than the fact Kohl’s has built in or adjacent to regional shopping centers all over metro Atlanta.

Sixth, the homeowners in Cardiff Park have concerns, and rightly so, about an open space exposing their houses to the development site. What they do not seem to understand is that every development before the Planning Commission requires an approved landscaping plan. It is the duty of the Planning Commissioners to insure that any landscaping plan mandates dense planting in that area no matter what is built on the site.

Seventh, my heart sank when one of our planning commissioners supported the Kohl’s because it looked better than the Wal-Mart across the street.

I would say 99 percent of our retail establishments look better than the Wal-Mart. I never thought I would ever witness such a faint attempt at justifying a big box store in Peachtree City from a member of our own Planning Commission.

I remember the days when the Planning Commission was so stringent about adhering to our ordinances they made a builder cut the corner off a house to comply with buffer regulations.

Gone are the days when city officials and appointed representatives consistently cited the comprehensive plan as their decision-making guide. The new pseudo-standard is the most permissive our city has ever seen. The historical context and our ordinances shaped over decades no longer apply.

Finally, we need to consider the real possibilities. Our police chief has gone on the record in the past saying he would rather not have the big box stores. There are studies on regional shopping centers and crime.

As we have witnessed in Fayetteville, Newnan and all over metro Atlanta, corporate leaders pull big boxes and relocate them all the time. In most cases, a low-end development follows. Kroger recently proved that stores will purposefully sell or lease to a lower-end store just to keep the competition out.

Most importantly, where in the world is Peachtree City heading? Who is steering the ship? We have not seen such a radical shift change since the early days when the city abandoned the original vision of 80,000 to 120,000 residents build-out and a heavy urban feel.

Coweta County is in the process of committing developmental suicide, but that does not mean we have to follow them.

Steve Brown

stevebrownptc@ureach.com

Peachtree City, Ga.

[Brown served as mayor of Peachtree City from 2001 to 2005.]

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Submitted by d.smith700 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 2:56pm.

But it will be in a very few years!
I remember just 23 years ago when Southlake was THE place to shop from Peachtree City. One shouldn't even drive there now.
Maybe it is fore-ordained that we work hard to build it, and then our kids have to move somewhere else.

Submitted by carcar on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 2:30pm.

Let me remind everyone why Steve Brown lost re-election. It is for one reason, and one reason only. He was for the Luthern Church selling to CVS. None of us wanted another drug store in Peachtree City, and we certainly did not want it in our back yard. Had he been opposed to the CVS, he would have won. Logsdon won because he was the only candidate openly opposed to the CVS.

By the way, there were some free goats listed on Craigslist last week.

Submitted by carcar on Tue, 10/02/2007 - 8:54am.

Not again, you are correct, it was Walgreen that was trying to purchase the church property. Unfortunately, that is where your knowledge and clear thinking end. The current zoning is O/I, office institutional, and that zoning would allow a 4 story office building. Mr. Brown, Walgreen, and the Lutheran Church wanted that zoning changed to LUC, limited use commercial. Mr. Brown was for this because he thought it would be neat, since there was no LUC zoning in PTC at that time. Walgreen and Mr. Brown thought that it would also be neat to buffer our neighborhood from the Walgreen with another commercial property, possibly a bank. When has one commercial property been used to buffer another from existing residential? The Walgreen location in question also planned to be open 24 hours per day, deliveries early in the morning with the backup alarms, trash trucks emptying dumpsters. Do you live close by? Have you ever heard the dumpster trucks at the Kroger at about 0530 every other day? How would you like that added noise less than 100 yards from your back door? How is it that a bank and Walgreen would not create more traffic than an office building? Even if the office building were open 7 days/week it could not possibly add the traffic a bank and 24 hour Walgreen would.
Group VI or any other developer could buy that property and develop it but I don’t think it is worth the $3MM Walgreen was willing to pay. Makes you wonder what kind of back room deal Mr. Brown, Walgreen, Christ Our Shepard Lutheran Church, and John Wieland were cooking up.
I disagree not again, we won and you are the moron.

Submitted by d.smith700 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 2:45pm.

The vines thrive due to lack of goats!
We don't hire Mexicans---the only ones who would cut out the Kudzu!
Now that it is known what the land where the Lutherns were given their oldtimers is worth, there is no hope now of it not becoming a pawn in the development wars! May take ten years, but it will happen.
Maybe Planterra could stand a Kohls and a Walgreens? Take up part of the Tennis Courts? However they may prefer a strip club, a female mammary display burger joint, a pawn shop, a nail saloon, and a Goodwill!

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 3:13pm.

KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY

D.Smith 700 aka Nitpicker aka Dollar,

Enough is enough already. Pick a handle and stick with it. Your attempt to fool us with your multiple monikers is a failed and hoaky endeavor. Now cut it out you silly old man!

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by Nitpickers on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 5:27pm.

I'm getting a little tired of the accusations! What is your problem?
This dollar-smith person may also be getting tired of this!
Is your sole purpose on here to irritate those who might disagree with you?
The site does need something besides bands, football games, and racism!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 6:02pm.

If you think your posts like the one this morning to "skyspy" is your answer to bringing something new to this community you might not be welcomed here. That was absolutely and totally uncalled for.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by Nitpickers on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 6:19pm.

I am aware of people who always want to be violent, want others to die who do many and most things they don't agree with, want constant wars--no matter the reason or the length, want white and black trees- as was said, want more bad jails, want more courts, like cops greatly, like uniforms and guns, agree with corporal and capital punishment, don't like change, don't want immigrants, don't like the central form of government, have no problem with any "conservative," likes Coulter, Hannity, Oreilly, and Limbaugh greatly, hates Yankees, likes vigilantes, hates most laws, doesn't like to pay taxes at all--but likes to drive on good roads, have an army to fight for them, keep out immigrants, but do it all with private business!
Why do you like "skyspy so much? Do you agree with the OD stuff?

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 8:27pm.

Like Git says..nitpickers-smith.
Where ya' been? Your son half-dollar has been missing you. LOL

BTW.. We like skyspy because WE like skyspy. Smiling


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 9:08pm.

You always cheer me up.

That new blog about the private investigator sounds like dollar also.

Barry said he was in the phone book, but I found ten other people with the same last name, but no Barry. I actually was going to call him to apologize. I don't think he read my post.
I feel bad about that comment. It was really directed at dealers, because I assumed(wrongly) that they use their own product. A friend of mine who is a cop informed me that that is not the case. Most of the dealers know what they are doing is harmful, and sell it anyway. But, they almost never use it themselves. That makes me even angrier at the dealers.

The weather should stay nice this week, have a good one. You are our ray of sunshine on this site.

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 9:39pm.

Thanks Sky..
I believe highflyer will understand when he reads your post. We know you have a good heart.

His comments were so very sad. I really am going to visit his son's grave.

Like you, I hate crime and drug dealers. I don't know what we can do to stop it though.

You have a good week too! Smiling


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:37pm.

That blog sounds like a speech someone would hear in a San Fransisco drug house back in the 60's. I can see you back then Nitpicker. A fifty something year old man who is stoned and whacked out on LSD. With an audience of six to eight 19 year olds there you sit babbling the same nonsense that you spew out today. Hey Dollar! How difficult is it for you to find hash for your bong these days? Do they still make that stuff or do you make your own? Do you still wear your headband and beads?

Let's see.... a fifty something year old addict in the 60's. Add about 40 years. Puzzled Hey! That oughta ballpark ole Nitpickin' Dollar's age at about 90 - 95 years old. Yup! That sounds about right. Smiling

Oh..And the name is: G-I-T Git. R-E-A-L Real. Git Real.... does that help you buddy? Remember me now? Eye-wink

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:44pm.

Thanks for watching out for me, even when I don't deserve it.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:49pm.

You gotta love it that Dollar's back. Smiling

Hey Cy! I'm having a wonderful night. Just a sittin' here with a big ole grin on my face and I'm just a typin' away. Smiling Life is good. Except for that split second when those nuckles bust up against those bolts on the exhaust manifold. Eye-wink

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:59pm.

Don't go there. I had every intention to work on that %#*&%$ truck today while I was at home today. But couldn't find the time. Instead I watched my favorite soap - All My Damn Children.

Hey, Do you live in Billy Goat Acres? You don't have cable? You are missing another episode of "The War".
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:59pm.

I guess you are right everything is back to normal, with dollar back.

3 Things we can count on: dollar, death, and taxes.

I wonder what new name he will come up with next.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:41pm.

Are you having a good night?

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 6:35pm.

Perhaps I need to refresh your memory. He - skyspy - apologized for that statement to a man that lost his son to drugs. That was a darn hard thing to do. And for you to come back and by make reference to skyspy's post is just low. It's not a question of what or who I like. It's about having the maturity to know when to move on and drop a subject.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:41pm.

I just got home from work.

nitpick is going to nitpick. I don't care what he thinks.

I hope Barry read my post. My intent was not to hurt him. It was a careless comment. Now the dealers on the other hand....

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:48pm.

I truly understand. That was a tough one. It just irritated me when he it brought up again the way he did it and while Barry was still on-line. It just wasn't right. Make sure you have a cold one.

BTW, my truck is still in my garage. I got to drive my killer SUV to work tomorrow.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 7:56pm.

He wrote that while Barry was still on line? nosepick was trying to hurt me, but he hurt Barry all over again. That stinks.

What kind of old truck do you have again? Hopefully it will stop being so stubborn soon.

Have a good one.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 8:04pm.

1984 Ford Ranger with very brittle plastic vacuum lines that has a bad ignition miss.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by skyspy on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 9:18pm.

Can it be fixed, or should you look for one even older one? Maybe from the 20's or 30's or 40's. I like old cars, boats, and planes.

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 9:23pm.

I know about old airplanes. I had a 1946 C120 back when the earth was cooling off. I made lots sheet metal parts to keep it flying. My truck can be fixed. I just got to go do it.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 8:34pm.

Why in the world don't y'all get a little french truck? It will run faster. Smiling


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 8:44pm.

Thanks, I'll pass. Those Citroens are more ugly than big fat me in spandex.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 3:20pm.

Are you sure it's $? I'm still waiting for those goofy and shelf answered blogs.

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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 6:41pm.

I couldn't tell if that was dollar till that last rant, is there any doubt now?

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 6:48pm.

The rambling sure has a strong resemblance. I'll know for sure when his blogs start and he answers half of them.
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Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


Submitted by madprof on Sun, 09/30/2007 - 1:55pm.

"Development" in PTC has gotten so bad that whenever we see workers in a green space anyplace in town, we seriously wonder when the next strip mall will be going in. The people who voted for Harold Logs-cut-down over Mayor Brown should all be repenting in sackcloth and ashes.

Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Sun, 09/30/2007 - 7:24pm.

I promise you, you haven't seen any workers in City green space building any "strip malls".

Not all the vacant property in PTC is City Green Space.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 6:58pm.

I can't argue about anything you said in this letter to the editor. One small quibble on your fourth point - the traffic issue - most of the increased traffic claims are almost always bogus in established retail areas since the shoppers are already in the general area. Translation - the trips are only created once - not once multiplied by the number of stores.

Anyhow, you are correct on everything else. I don't normally agree with you, I certainly don't want you in a leadership position, but you are correct about the Kohl's. I say kill it.

And in this case the council can kill it by taking the land swap off the table. Easy. No recourse for the developer. Well, he can build a Hooter's. Is that so bad? It will be a meat and three in less than a year.


Submitted by ATLtoPTC on Mon, 10/01/2007 - 5:05pm.

Kohl's is a bad idea, and I think Steve Brown laid out the reasons quite well.

The citizens of PTC rallied and saved Peachtree Crossing, now can we do it again to stop this bully-developer and Kohl's?

Anyway, that sure would be a nice location for a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods...... Smiling

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 4:53pm.

I wish you would run again Steve. I voted for you both times. You had the strength and character to help us stick with our building codes and ordinances.

How many more of our building codes do we have to "fudge" on before we don't even make one of the top 100 cities? We are in a downhill riverdale slide. Everytime we "fudge" or let one little small slip of a building code or ordinance slide, we bring the city down. Where will it stop? If we don't stop the so called little things, like the signs at the Avenue, what are we going to do about the big ones?

Most people here are very complacent. We are like the lobster in the pot we don't realize that all of the little things turn into big ones until it is too late and the water is boiling.

Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Wed, 09/26/2007 - 3:47pm.

Well said by the Ex Mayor. All of it.

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