Why we still need a civil rights watchdog

Linda Chavez's picture

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights turns 50 this week. Created by the 1957 Civil Rights Act, signed into law Sept. 9 that year by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, the Commission’s work rarely makes the front pages as it did in the heyday of the civil rights movement.

But it remains an important vehicle for public debate on civil rights issues, as evidenced by a controversial new report it has issued questioning whether affirmative action may actually do more harm than good to its intended beneficiaries.

The report, “Affirmative Action in American Law Schools,” found that admitting minority students “into law schools for which they might not academically be prepared could harm their academic performance and hinder their ability to obtain secure and gainful employment.”

These arguments about the unintended consequences of affirmative action are not new. I’ve been making them for 30 years, including during my tenure as director of the Civil Rights Commission during the Reagan administration.

What is new is a growing body of empirical evidence to back up the claim that affirmative action in higher education harms not only whites and Asians but blacks and Hispanics, those very students the programs are intended to benefit.

The problem is this body of evidence may never see the light of day — which is why the Civil Rights Commission report is so important. The Commission has no civil rights enforcement authority; those duties belong to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the Justice Department, the Department of Labor’s Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs, and other agencies that administer the provisions of the nation’s myriad civil rights laws.

But the Commission has always served as the nation’s conscience on civil rights, making findings and recommendations to the president and Congress. And its recommendation in this report is to end the conspiracy of secrecy surrounding the effects of affirmative action on the performance of black students in law schools.

The first solid evidence that affirmative action was harming black law school students came in November 2004, when UCLA law professor Richard Sander published a study in the Stanford Law Review that showed that more than half of black students at elite law schools had first-year grades that put them in the bottom 10 percent of their respective classes.

This poor performance led to a far greater chance that these students would not complete law school and made them six times more likely never to pass the bar exam required to practice law.

But Sander also found that black students did far better if they attended law schools with students whose undergraduate grades and law school admission test scores were similar to theirs. Black students who didn’t rely on affirmative action to get into law school had similar first-year grades with their white counterparts and passed the bar at similar rates as all students from the same tier law school.

Of course the affirmative action establishment denounced Sander’s study. But more perniciously, they conspired to deny access to a body of evidence, a 25-year archive of California state bar results, that could definitively prove Sander’s thesis that mismatching black students with law schools where they were less likely to succeed actually resulted in fewer black lawyers than there would be without affirmative action.

The Civil Rights Commission has now recommended that Congress enact legislation that would require law schools that receive federal funding to make public the extent to which they consider race in their admissions policies. The Commission also recommended that the National Academy of Sciences or other independent grant-making institutions fund studies on the impact of racial preferences on racial disparities in academic performance, graduation rates and future income.

In recent years, the Civil Rights Commission has come under fire for being unnecessary, even counter-productive. But the Commission’s latest report shows that its work is not yet done. Few would have imagined 50 years ago that programs enacted ostensibly to benefit minorities would one day be shown actually to harm them. But the Commission’s insistence that this information be made public shows why the agency is still needed today as the nation’s civil rights watchdog.

COPYRIGHT 2007 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.

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Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Tue, 09/18/2007 - 8:05am.

In Up From Slavery, former slave Booker T. Washington (1856-1915) wrote the following:

I have long since ceased to cherish any spirit of bitterness against the Southern white people on account of the enslavement of my race. No one section of our country was wholly responsible for its introduction . . . . Having once got its tentacles fastened on to the economic and social life of the Republic, it was no easy matter for the country to relieve itself of the institution.

Then, when we rid ourselves of prejudice, or racial feeling, and look facts in the face, we must acknowledge that, notwithstanding the cruelty and moral wrong of slavery, the ten million Negroes inhabiting this country, who themselves or whose ancestors went through the school of American slavery, are in a stronger and more hopeful condition, materially, intellectually, morally, and religiously, than is true of an equal number of black people in any other portion of the globe . . . .

This I say, not to justify slavery – on the other hand, I condemn it as an institution, as we all know that in America it was established for selfish and financial reasons, and not from a missionary motive – but to call attention to a fact, and to show how Providence so often uses men and institutions to accomplish a purpose. When persons ask me in these days how, in the midst of what sometimes seem hopelessly discouraging conditions, I can have such faith in the future of my race in this country, I remind them of the wilderness through which and out of which, a good Providence has already led us.

___________________________________

"There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs . . . .

"There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public." ~ Booker T. Washington


maximus's picture
Submitted by maximus on Tue, 09/18/2007 - 10:53am.

"There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public." ~ Booker T. Washington

I wonder if Booker T. would have imagined we would still have those people a hundred years later.

And it’s not just the race-problem solvers that don’t want the patient to get well. That explains everything from affirmative action to socialist policies like “free” healthcare and the minimum wage. The proponents that are in power aren’t interested in actually helping people. They merely want to ensure their miserable way of making a living by keeping the problems alive, not the patient.

Maximus


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Tue, 09/18/2007 - 4:35pm.

Booker T. and the other great, wise men who helped to make this country what it is probably would be saddened by the condition of our country. So many of the hardships that they considered "normal" no longer exist, or at least to any great degree; yet, we whine about how hard we have it, how "unfair" life is, and end up destroying the good life we now have, the one that so many have sacrificed to give us.

___________________________

A departure from principle in one instance becomes a precedent for a second [which is exactly what the Republican politicians have done]; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of the society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left but for sin and suffering. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for everything one has a mind to do. ~ Benjamin Franklin

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A wise and frugal government [one that practices economy in the expenditure of money and the use of material resources], which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement [even their own health care], and shall not take [via taxes = stealing] from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition [think Hillary Clinton and most other politicians here]. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government [Democrats' true love in life]. It is always oppressive. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

Was the government to prescribe to us our medicine and diet, our bodies would be in such keeping as our souls are now. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first [especially at the federal level], and then corruption, its necessary consequence. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

So confident am I in the intentions, as well as wisdom, of the government [think Hildebeast or most other Dems], that I shall always be satisfied that what is not done, either cannot, or ought not to be done. ~ Thomas Jefferson

[Jefferson is using irony: the use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning. Smiling ]
___________________________

That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves. [self-government] ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

I think myself that we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious. ~ Thomas Jefferson

___________________________

The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first. ~ Thomas Jefferson

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But a Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever. ~ John Adams


Submitted by Davids mom on Tue, 09/11/2007 - 11:17pm.

Obama, Barak - identified as 'black' was on law review, etc., etc., etc.
Ms Chavez speaks of 'the probability of blacks not graduating or passing the bar. .what are the actual statistics? Not all 'black' students enter with 'less qualifications'! What were the qualifications of "W"? His entrance to Yale was called 'legacy' instead of 'affirmative action'. There are so many minority attorneys who graduated from Yale, Harvard, USC, UCLA, who are doing extremely well - better than Ms. Chavez! Let’s concentrate on better opportunities in secondary and undergraduate education for minorities so that they come to the task equally prepared as their majority counterparts.

TonyF's picture
Submitted by TonyF on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 5:52am.

and he'll be hungry tomorrow. Try to teach him to fish and 13 percent of them will holla "discrimination".

"The memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime.You shuffle in the gloom of the sick room,and talk to yourself as you die."
(R. Waters)


ptctaxpayer's picture
Submitted by ptctaxpayer on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 8:33am.

"Give a man a fish and you feed him for today. Teach him how to fish, and he'll spend all his time sitting in a boat drinking beer."

And for some folks, just sit in the shade on the bank. Because of injustices a century and a half ago that had nothing to do with you, someone else will catch the fish, clean it, cook it and serve it up to you.


bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 6:32am.

How about we concentrate on better opportunities in secondary and undergraduate education for everybody and leave the race card out of it all together?


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 7:32am.

Why do we even ask someones race on any application form? This should be illegal. It allows blatant discrimination, and reverse racism.

Let's leave race out of any application, so that people can be judged only on their achievements, knowledge, and character.

Paul Perkins's picture
Submitted by Paul Perkins on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 10:10am.

Let's leave race out of any application, so that people can be judged only on their achievements, knowledge, and character.

On any application, I check all the boxes white,Asian, etc.
I'm sure that if I traced my ancestors back to Adam & Eve, I'd find some of all the choices present.
_______________________________________________________________________
Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should,
therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense.
Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties
which may make anything mean everything or nothing at pleasure.
Thomas Jefferson on the court system


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 2:21pm.

I checked all of the boxes on several job application and one college application.

I dared them to question me about it. If they had they would have been admiting that they discriminate. My lawyer would have had a field day. The University in question is known for filling "quotas".

How hard is it to make companies understand that if they didn't ask the race question at all, it would be almost impossible for people to sue because of racial discrimination?

Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:17am.

This is the goal. What steps do you suggest for reaching that goal? We haven't gotten there yet.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:54am.

The “ball and chain” hasn’t been shackled to your foot for many years.

However, if you insist on "carrying it with you" wherever you go, you will never be able to run as fast or as far as those that chose to leave it behind.

And please don't expect me to carry it for you.


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 12:56pm.

No one has carried anything for me unless it was full of good intentions. I have been blessed with the good deeds and persistent hard work of my ancestors. My ancestors overcame every obstacle placed in their way - but the obstacles still exist in one manner or another. Your refusing to acknowledge this is nothing new. If you don't care to participate in the uplifting of all mankind - that's your decision. There are others here who by their example of treating all people fairly and with respect when it is deserved are not angry with those who continue on this path of achieving equal treatment for all Americans who deserve it. You are talking to the wrong person about 'whining' - I LACK NOTHING!! I 'whine' for nothing. One must not forget the lessons of history - lest we keep making the same mistakes over and over again. Ignorance accompanies racism, classism, elitism - and not only minorities suffer the pains inflicted from these isms. You just may have a couple of 'ball and chains' tied to your feet that prevent you from soaring. It's obvious to those who read your posts. Let go of the anger. You're not carrying anything for anyone that will hinder your advancement. Onward and upward!

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 7:21pm.

Ok, let's just think about some of the unfortunate ...God forgive us!!! White kids! Let's just suppose there is a white kid from white trash/ trailor/incest background, the ones there is nothing for, the ones no one ever gave anything to, and their own race puts down. Let's just suppose a kid comes from this background. Not only there is no support net for him, there is nothing out there for him cause he is white, but he tries. He gives it everything he's got. He carries a B+ average, and is up for a scholorship and then whoops, here comes a Black kid who has just jacked around and has a c+ average, knowing he is privileged cause of the affirmative action deal. The schools jack ..his.. up to a b+, to make it fair. Now he is black, and here is this poor white trash that has tried and never ahd a chance, he has studied while his parents have had brawls, he has gone to school in rags, been made fun of cause of what he is, and then he is trying, alone, to pull himself out. The college chooses, and guess what, the black privlaged gets it, and the white trash who wants to be more, got the shaft, please tell me Davids Mom...what is right? The one that had nothing trying harder, and getting nothing cause he is white? or the kid that in your eyes, deserves it, cause he's black...please explain...I would like your answer

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 2:30pm.

The obstacles where a University or company has quotas that they fill?? That obstacle where the school placement or job is thrown to someone because of color, not based on merit or test scores?? Is that the obstacle you are complaining about??

It is called REVERSE RACISM and it stinks!!!!

Any buisness that has quotas stinks. Here is what a quota says:

It says that because of your color you couldn't possibly compete on an even playing field so here is a little boost. That is racism.

It is racist to have quotas.

You have had 30+ years to move on. The only barriers are in your mind. The barriers for white people is still very real. We have knuckleheads like you calling us racist when we complain about crime. We are not given jobs because of the fact that we are white, and most places of work have a quota to fill these days.

Does it make you happy that companies have quotas??

Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 5:45pm.

Is that the best 'talking point' you can come up with? I HAVE NOT CALLED ANYONE RACIST! Can you read and comprehend - or can you only respond with angry retorts about quotas, etc. I finished my BA long before 1964 - and Affirmative Action. If you don't have a job - that's your obstacle to overcome. Work it mister. Good luck.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 9:53pm.

You have called several bloggers on here racist when we were simply complaining about crime.

You are a very offensive person. You have gone out of your way to provoke people that you assume are white into race hating/race baiting conversation.

You can try to avoid the main point which is: You have no obstacles at all, in fact the opposite is true. For 30+ years black people and other minorities have been given preferential treatment. Our government has done this because they are the "true racist". The government actually believes that minorities cannot succeed based on their own merit and hard work.

I think all minorities can succeed with hard work. That is the difference between my attitude and the governments attitude.

Thanks for the "tip" I have a job that actually keeps me very comfortable.

If you honestly believe that any minority can't succeed without preferential treatment then I would suggest that you are the one who is racist.

As long as certain people expect free handouts I guess we will have to keep the race question on every application.

Even after 30+ years of favoritism and free handouts you still complain. Why??

PS: I'm not angry, just calling you out on your pity party, and everybody owes me something attitude.

Success is a choice not a birthright!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 2:08pm.

First you say ”Let’s concentrate on better opportunities in secondary and undergraduate education for minorities so that they come to the task equally prepared as their majority counterparts.”

In your very next comment you say, ”equal treatment for all Americans who deserve it.”

I’m just trying to figure out which side of your mouth you’re trying to speak out of.

You can’t ask for everything to be equal and in the same breath ask for special treatment for minorities. (ball and chain part)

I never accused you of “whining”. The point I’m trying to get through to you is you can’t continue to have it both ways.

I personally treat “EVERYONE” as an equal right up to the point when they try to and shift the standards to favor a “minority”, or any group over another.

You might want to try it some time.


Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 5:38pm.

When one does not have EQUAL preparation - he is UNEQUAL to the task. The poor, racially marginalized, etc. have not had equal preparation - and are handicapped. I consider you handicapped - and angry. Not all white males in this country come to the table fully equipped. I haven't run across many like you. You have been an education. Thanks. Have a great day.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:20pm.

Now you’re whining.

For your information, I don’t get angry and I don’t get even. I get ahead.

”When one does not have EQUAL preparation…” if one didn’t take advantage of the opportunities GIVEN to them when they were in school then GIVING them a handout later in life will be just as much a waste.

The state of Georgia, if not the entire south east US, would qualify for your idea of lack of “EQUAL preparation”. Funny that there have been, are and will continue to be, great people that have come out of Georgia as leaders and successful contributing members of society without the need of a handout.

Earlier you complained about W getting into school because he was a “legacy”.
Maybe you should stop trying to comparing yourself to the top 1%. It has to be discouraging to know you’ll never achieve that level of success. If that’s what you want to call it.

I have no idea what life was like for you growing up and to be honest I don’t care. I do know that I’ve had a 40/hr. a week job since I was thirteen years old. I put myself through college and paid off my loans years ahead of schedule. My parents didn’t have the money to send us to school but they did teach us that if we wanted something, we had better go and WORK for it.

You on the other hand told David to; “Sit on your hands, do nothing and make sure to tell everyone you’re a minority so they'll have to “GIVE” you something. There is this thing called affirmative action which means you’ll never have to actually WORK a day in your life. Just keep telling everyone you meet that because you’re a minority, they OWE YOU!”

It’s a shame you didn’t tell young David to go and do an honest days WORK so he can “earn” what he wants out of life. I guess its better that he grew up learning hatred and racism from someone like you.

The days of the “free ride” are over. Live with it.


Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 7:32pm.

"When one does not have EQUAL preparation - he is UNEQUAL to the task. The poor, racially marginalized, etc. have not had equal preparation - and are handicapped. I consider you handicapped - and angry. Not all white males in this country come to the table fully equipped. I haven't run across many like you. You have been an education. Thanks. Have a great day." What a slurr! Because he doesn't agree with you...he is handicapped...? I must say, if the tables had been switched in 1860, the white man would still be down, cause you'de never let him up my dear! I know a lot of Blacks I respect, you could never be one, you are as I said before, ternmaily Black, and for what reason people are listening to your backwards BS, I'm clueless. There are Blacks I respect, because they make it as themselves. I don't care what you claim you are, I doubt you have ever made anything on your own because you cling with all your heart to your cruch and try to make everyone believe that everyone who is Black deserves one...I know a lot of Blacks that would tell you , you are full of it, they made it, and they don't wallow in it and want more like you!

Submitted by susieq on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:15pm.

There are several of us on here who agree with you, but our mothers always said, "If you can't say something nice to someone, don't say anything." We are trying to hold our tongues.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:11pm.

how bout the Jews?...they have been chased around and given the short end of the stick for ...thousands...of years...and oh my goodness, some of the 1st to enslave them were the Egyptians, oh my...the Egyptians were Black! What have you done for the Jews? How much money and job oppornuties have you moved over and given them? But a better question is, how much have they asked for? When in WWII they exterminated them, the Jews said time out! But since then, how many eeoc and NAACP or JguJac, short for Just Give Us Jews A Chance, have you helped for them? None? I thought so. You just can't see that every group has their problems and picks themselves up and goes on and shows by example. that they deserve respect! You have got both hands white knuckled on the pity pot...and can't see anything anyone deserves but you...you are so.o.oo.ooo... shallow!

Submitted by Davids mom on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 7:06am.

When we concentrate on those Americans who are living below the poverty 'belt'; - attend below standard schools; have sub-standard teachers. Not all are 'black'. However, a large percentage is minority. In a country as wealthy are we are - this is not acceptable. If persons don't take advantage of opportunities to improve their lot, whether they live in West Virginia or the ghettos or barrios of this country is a problem of the individual. But we need to look at what breeds the Brewster’s of this world or the ghetto thugs. The race card is the product of unequal treatment of people of color in this country that has a sad history from Manifest Destiny to the Civil Rights movement. As long as we have the results from history of unequal treatment for the poor, minority, etc., the race card will be part of the discussion.

Submitted by thebeaver on Wed, 09/12/2007 - 8:05pm.

Translation for Dave's Mom's remarks:

"The race card is the product of unequal treatment of people of color in this country that has a sad history from Manifest Destiny to the Civil Rights movement."

Translation: The fact that we continue to use the race card as a crutch is whitey's fault.

"As long as we have the results from history of unequal treatment for the poor, minority, etc., the race card will be part of the discussion."

Translation: We will continue to shove the inequality of the past in the face of people who had absolutely nothing to do with that equality because we don't want to move on. We will live in the past and not try to excel and improve the future because it is much easier to blame whitey for everything and continue to demand welfare, reparations, and affirmative action. Why work for something when it is much easier to lay back, play the race card, cry discrimination, racism, etc... and live off of other people's hard work?

AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 2:10pm.

itself with this topic. Those of you who've been here a couple of years know that we've stalemated on this subject a time or two before. We are mixing many different issues, however, and that adds a bit of confusion.

Issue 1: Is there in America today a racial double standard that either helps or hurts different races?

I believe the answer is , Yes.

In certain situations I believe there have been white men who have lost jobs or opportunities to blacks or women due to "quotas."
I believe there are blacks who have lost opportunities to whites because of nepotism and racial considerations. The question is not if these situations exist, but HOW best to find parity.

Some examples: This was a story on President Bush acknowledging racial profiling of Blacks by law enforcement across the country and his enlisting Attorney General Ashcroft to find solutions:

[Washington Times] President George W. Bush has issued a directive to government agencies to collect racial data on traffic and street stops in order to fulfill his campaign promise to end racial profiling.

Another Presidential quote by GWB: " I can’t imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of race and harassed. That’s just flat wrong. So we ought to do everything we can to end racial profiling."

This is just to show that many people, law enforcement, employers, bankers, etc. see race and may let race effect their decisions (whether to rent an apartment or home to a person, where to "steer" a person in home purchases, whether or not to offer a job, what interest rate to offer). Acknowledging the existence of racism, no matter how rare, is not saying "give me a handout." It is saying, keep the playing field level.

Guys, discrimination does exist in our country, and it is quite demonstrable. Here is one of hundreds of tests done in the housing business which found discriminitory practices toward minorities. It is from the Fair Housing Bureau of Napa Valley, Ca:

In one Napa County case, an agent, the person answering questions about the rental, offered the Caucasian tester a free credit check, but quoted a fee to the Latino tester.

In another test, an agent gave the Caucasian tester the options of a seven or 13-month lease, but told the Latino tester that a 13-month lease is required.

Another case found that an agent promptly asked the Latino tester whether he has children and asked where he works, what he does there, whether his wife works as well, and why they are moving. To the Caucasian tester, the same agent only asked whether she worked in Napa before revealing details about the unit, telling the tester she hoped to hear from her soon.

There are many more examples, many of them my and David'sMom's personal life experiences. I don't know first hand what sexual harrasment is like, but I'm not so naive that I'm going to tell women it doesn't happen. Many of you will never know first hand what obstacles minorities, at times, face, but don't think that it all ended with the Emancipation Proclimation.

That being said: I don't like quotas which set different standards for different races. I Don't like Legacy Scholarships like the ones that give advantages to the advantaged (why don't people ever complain about those???????). I think reparations for slavery is a really stupid idea.

I do like programs that ensure equal opportunites (e.g. minority companies given equal opportunities to bid on govt contracts) and programs which ensure local demographics of a population are adequately represented at colleges and universities. In other words, if our state is50% male, 50% female, 30% black, 45% white, 5% asian, and 20% Latino (just for sake of argument) I would encourage a system that sought these levels of ethnic and gender representation out of EQUALLY QUALIFIED APPLICANTS when possible; This would keep demographics from being a game of chance or, potentially, discrimination.

And for you "race shouldn't matter" members of the blog, have you noticed that there are currently no bloggers commenting on the ethnicity of today's latest sexual predator, a man from Slovakia. It took no time flat for the "black" references to the Fayetteville bank robber did it Beaver? Sadly, there is a double standard here, and if Beaver was interviewing me for a govt job and a caucasion man, I'm willing to bet the white fellow would have a leg up on me, all other factors being equal. Am I wrong Beaver? Would you hire a black man as quickly as a caucasion given your inner feelings toward ethnicity and "shovel noses" (a term I learned right here on these boards, Beaver)?

This is one of my longer posts, but it is only to try and show the other side of this coin. I don't want reparations. I don't want a lower bar to hurdle than whites, I don't carry a race card, and I dont want to be profiled or disadvantaged because of my skin color either. Hope this sheds some light.
Kevin "Hack" King


Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Tue, 09/18/2007 - 7:51am.

Ever consider WHY the real estate agent asked those questions. Puzzled Maybe it has more to do with “culture” (life style) than skin color.

Possible explanation: The agent has limited time (which necessitates pre-screening applicants) and wants to show the house only to people likely able to pay the rent and/or who won’t sub-rent it to 50 other people in order to come up with the money and/or will bring in from Mexico every known relative to live with them.

By asking questions the agent could have been trying to determine if the people would “fit” into the neighborhood or would help to turn it into a slum. White trash would likely not be wanted either.

I’d like to see your source for this alleged discrimination. There could be a lot more to this story than was reported (media bias).

Would you want them for a neighbor? If it were your property, would you want renters who would likely trash the property, wouldn’t pay the rent, would cause problems with the neighbors, etc.? Be honest now. Smiling

I have an elderly relative who lived next door to Hispanic transients. It was unbelievable how many people “stayed” there overnight or for just a few weeks at a time because the owners likely rented out space to likely illegal aliens. The house quickly became a slum (filthy – for one reason, the toilet facilities weren’t meant to accommodate that many people and frequently backed up), and the occupants were often drunk and/or on drugs and hostile. My widowed aunt gave up trying friendly overtures. The local government would not enforce the law (even when a lean-to shed was tacked onto the back of the house in order to accommodate more occupants).

I’m glad to say that it is now owned by a family (dad, mom, kids). The new owner is “black” and his wife is “white” (from outward appearance – I’ve not asked about their family tree and their origins). Smiling This man is friendly and has cleaned up the property. Although he has darker skin than the previous owners (both the Hispanic and the white trash occupants who lived there previously), he is a welcomed neighbor. My aunt also has other Hispanics who are good neighbors, but many are not because of differing cultural values (such as basic cleanliness). They live here as they lived in Mexico, and the neighborhoods in the area (which were once middle class residents who had lower incomes and smaller but well-maintained houses) have a much greater crime problem and an over-all slummy appearance. Property values have greatly decreased and businesses have moved out.

I’ve seen similar scenarios happen multiple times. Forcing these types of residents on neighborhoods (via anti-discrimination laws and government-subsidized loans and housing allowances, i.e. section 8) creates a lot of problems, and expecting people to give up their neighborhoods without hostility is unrealistic.

Rich politicians (most often Democrats) pass laws that force the rest of us who don’t have similar resources to fulfill their ideals of multi-culturalism and non-discrimination without considering the effects.

("Ideals" such as not allowing school vouchers but sending their children to exclusive private schools and forcing section-8 residents on those least able to recover from the loss in property value but living in exclusive neighborhoods themselves –- Elizabeth Edwards’ disdain for her neighbor comes to mind.)

___________________________

Legacy Scholarships and Admissions –- Do most people ever complain about sports scholarships, especially football ones? Puzzled Probably not because of MONEY. Both types of admissions bring in MONEY, fame, prestige, etc. to the school.

“I think reparations for slavery is a really stupid idea.” –- Then you have a lot more common sense than a lot of other people (NAACP, for example).

The physical description of non-apprehended criminals is given in an effort to catch the criminals. The “race” of the robbers is a common thread and all of us would be most unwise just to ignore that fact or to focus on it exclusively. Since all of us are potential victims of this type of crime and very few of us are potential victims of the types of sexual predators featured in the paper, then people will continue to look at others with some suspicion because of fear – not wanting to be the next victim.

If there were a “white” rapist in the area, then that would be discussed and women would be more cautious of unknown white males. If the robberies had been committed by whites with tattoos or some other common identifying feature or white “professional” bank robbers (who probably outnumber black perpetrators), then we’d be talking about the white thugs and calling the police if we saw someone fitting that description or acting suspiciously. Don’t you think that “white trash” people are watched more closely in a store than you or I? I become nervous (more cautious) if one seems to be following me in a parking lot. Wouldn’t you? What am I basing my suspicions on? Physical description is one important factor, but it should not be the only one.

Hopefully, honest communication here and elsewhere will continue to improve "race" relations, and our children and grandchildren will have even less problems than we do. I see improvement and am glad for it. Smiling

___________________________

"I will let no man drag me down so low as to make me hate him." ~ Booker T. Washington


Submitted by thebeaver on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 7:16pm.

I never called you a "shovel nose" (whatever that is), and I resent the implication. And why should I mention the Slovakian - You just did. (Sadly, just another double-standard)

In answer to your question, I would hire the most qualified candidate for the job, and would not use discriminatory practices such as "Affirmative Action" or "Government set-asides" - Nope - Jobs and work should be awarded with no basis on color or ethnicity.

You are right, discrimination does exist in this country. And I see more and more discrimination against guys that look like me as the demographics of our country change.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:28pm.

Two things I hate with a passion. Czech child perverts. They give my home company a bad name. And I hate affirmative action. I've been busy and was disappointed that David's Mom and you were such die hard affirmative actionists. Shocked I will document my real life business experiences in regards to affirmative action and granting credit to the beneficiaries of affirmative action. I will tell you up front from early this spring forward I do discriminate as to who I allow credit to. Being politically correct has cost me many tens of thousands of dollars in bad debt as a result in dealing with the beneficiaries of affirmative action. For me... It has become a prudent business decision to very watchful of the minority businesses that try to buy from me. If you want to go there I will be honest and respectful. You won't like the examples, the percentages, or the truth. If the black taxpayers realized what affirmative action costs them in real dollars I'm sure they'd be outraged too.

Anyways, I'd rather save up my efforts to take a stab at a couple of corrupt judges and county commissioners that appear to be surfacing to the top of the cess pool. Oh... If it makes you guys feel better they're white.

**** GIT REAL TOUGH ON CRIME ****

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


ilockemup's picture
Submitted by ilockemup on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 7:08pm.

Thanks, Git...That reminds me that I need to pump the septic tank.

Maybe we need to pump the Fayette cesspool, too.


Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:48pm.

There is no doubt in my mind that you have some really good examples of bad deals with minority businesses that were beneficiaries of AA. You, as a good businessman, must rely on your instincts and past business experience. However, just from listening to you - I believe that you would be just as cautious and prudent with a 'majority' businessperson or company that had a questionable reputation. However - I don't believe that you would turn down a business transaction JUST BECAUSE the owner is a minority. That's not good business. Before AA, the members in my family had to be just as cautious with majority businessmen - and scrutinize them carefully before investing. (There weren't many minority business people to deal with - at least on the west coast in the 50's and 60's). Git - do me a favor - please point out to me where I have 'asked for a handout. Thanks. I stand by ending racism in all parts of our dealings with fellow Americans - even reverse racism. But 'thinking' people have to look for paths to parity

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:23pm.

Eloquent.

Submitted by susieq on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:14pm.

I'm sure your life experiences have been quite different from David's Mom's, with her "you owe me something" attitude. Thanks for your post.

Submitted by Davids mom on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:30pm.

. . to those of you who joined me in a conversation regarding the sensitive topic of 'race' - without trying to twist my words or intentions. There will always be those who try to turn this conversation into a 'we' - 'they' discussion without listening to the others point of view. I have listened, and because of your honest communication, I do understand your varied and diverse viewpoints. I have learned a great deal. I will not join in the tired arguments of Beaver and crowd. I understand their frustration. I applaud those citizens of Fayette County who are living the American dream, which includes all Americans. May God continue to bless all.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 5:15pm.

I see you scurried your old fat butt back to your peep hole, decided its ok, and here you come again, just tryin to look normal before you drool all your racial venom again with both fangs hangin out. You have flapped your gumms about normal stuff about as long as you can take it, (didn't I say this a week ago?}and then just flop right out there with your santimonous BS again. Have you ever thought that you are living in the 50s? Other blacks have moved on, but you still want to be a closet black panther. Now let me guess, to all who will listen, you are gonna make them pay by another self serving sermon...why don't you answer what I said about the white disadvantage trailor trash I mentioned earlier? I know...cause you are so self abosorbed...you can't even imagine, or care about some trival little thing like that...answer...what I asked earlier, before you try to skate again...you woosseee!

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 6:03pm.

I'm curious as to why you feel you have to get so personal in your posts, it seems to me that you must feel you're losing this argument if you have to resort to name calling.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Submitted by susieq on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 5:25pm.

I don't know what they call it in California, but around here, we call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing." Panther will do.

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 5:37pm.

a bunch of radical and militant Blacks in the Bay area of California that wanted to kill all 'whities', and some went to jail, they robbed banks etcs, cause they felt it was their God given right. David's Mom, will just settle for borring us to death with her, 'I shall over come' dam'um all!

Cyclist's picture
Submitted by Cyclist on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 4:19pm.

I'm curious. What's your take on Clayton County's Sheriff Hill and his firings of those deputies on his first day?
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sat, 09/15/2007 - 9:11am.

I must admit I have 0 background information on who was fired and what for. I'll do some research.

Kevin "Hack" King


TonyF's picture
Submitted by TonyF on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 6:10am.

"live off of other people's hard work" says it all, doesn't it?

"The memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime.You shuffle in the gloom of the sick room,and talk to yourself as you die."
(R. Waters)


Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 09/13/2007 - 7:01am.

Well said.

I thought I was the only one who could see through her racist poor me, everybody owes me a living rant.

My grandparents escaped from Nazi Germany with nothing but a suitcase. They became successful within a decade. There were no welfare programs back then. There also were no quotas. They had to work hard to achieve success. They taught my father, who taught me, that no one ever died from hard work.

If I were going to use davids mom's "logic" I guess I should sit around and expect free handouts. My grandparents suffered, they were tortured and terrified, everybody needs to pay for that.

Or
I could get revenge on past atrocities by being successful.

That is how you "get even" by being a success. Nothing feels as good as paying for luxury items that you worked hard for.

Yes the bad memories and pain of their stories are still with me. Whining and crying won't make it go away.

Success is a choice not a birthright. What will you choose??

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