PTC Council to 'consider' selling road to developer

Tue, 09/04/2007 - 8:26pm
By: John Munford

Would allow for big box Kohl's at 89,000 square feet; neighbors support big box plan

The Peachtree City Council agreed Tuesday night to consider either a land swap or outright sale of two city-owned roads to make way for a large shopping center anchored by an 89,000 square foot Kohl’s Department Store.

Without those roads, there won’t be enough room on the site for the Kohl’s, which will also need a separate approval from the City Council for a special use permit because the city ordinance limits stores to a maximum size of 32,000 square feet.

Yet although the Kohl’s by its size will be a big box retailer, a number of citizens from the adjacent Cardiff Park and Planterra Ridge subdivisions strongly supported the Kohl’s being included in the project brought forth by Capital City’s Doug McMurrain, the same developer who built the Home Depot and Wal-Mart across Ga. Highway 54 from the site in question.

Several residents said they want the Kohl’s in part because they don’t want the site developed with smaller stores. This summer, McMurrain drew up a potential site plan for the area that included a Hooter’s restaurant, a Pep Boys auto parts store and a QuikTrip convenience store.

Councilman Stuart Kourajian, who said he would not approve a big box permit for the site, said that plan was tantamount to bullying by McMurrain, who said he didn’t want to execute that plan because “it’s not the right thing to do for Peachtree City.”

On the big box issue, Mayor Harold Logsdon and Councilman Steve Boone supported the Kohl’s plan while Kourajian was firmly against, as was Cyndi Plunkett. New councilman Mike Harman said he didn’t have enough information to make a decision about the big box issue at the meeting.
Harman said he agreed with Plunkett that residents from other areas of the city, not just Planterra and Cardiff Park, should have input on the big box proposal.

Harman also indicated he was undecided on whether or not the city should dispose of the streets.

McMurrain said he thinks the roads: Line Creek Drive and Line Creek Circle, would be worth approximately $700,000. Logsdon said he would like to see the city get a parcel in return that would allow the city to relocate its recycling center.

City Attorney Ted Meeker said the city would have to either put the property up for bid or consider a land swap for a parcel of equal or greater value than the value of the streets.

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Submitted by LocalYokel on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 3:34pm.

I couldn't agree more with the last posting. The 2 City Council people were belligerent, stubborn, and generally obstructionists. The facts are that the developer has a permitted use and legal right to build a dept store, or big box as self-important Cyndi Plunkett refers to it. There is no way to stop someone from building a commercial project here;it needs no rezoning at all. So why not work with the guy rather than fight him? This is the same developer after all who built The Avenues. Have you ever shopped at The Avenues Cyndi? Or do you make all your outfits?
Cyndi and her sidekick, Stuart "Clueless" Kourajian refused to provide the developer and his architect with any meaningful feedback when asked what they didn't like about the project. The only response was "I don't like big box" and "we need to plan another meeting". Its time to {{{{{{{{EDITED}}}}}}}} or get off the pot people and the developer isn't threatening he's giving PTC advance warning. Either take a beautifully designed Kohls as he's laid it out, or take your chances with the next business that will come in right after him.
These 2 knuckleheads cost PTC nearly $500K in legal fees over the Walmart/Home Depot that came in, and again had no legal right to deny these retailers. How much do you want to bet these 2 hypocrites shop at both of these stores on a regular basis? My fellow citizens, these 2 City Council people are not hero's for standing up to the developer, but rather 2 idiots who are going to cost you and I increased taxes as a result of the lawsuit that will result from this, or the lawsuit that the next developer will file against PTC & Dumb and Dumber. (I cant quite figure out who is Dumb and Dumber, Cyndi or Stuart.)
It's about making concessions and minimizing the impact. These 2 fools angered me so much because they refused to listen to logic and instead had their mind made up from the minute the meeting started. I'm going to request that these meetings be televised to demonstrate the ineptitude that we have representing PTC. I'm also going to actively campaign against them in the next election.

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 6:22pm.

3 Wrongs don't make a right. walley, home-no-customer-service, and target snuck in during the lenox free love years.

I believe we do still have a city ordinance/building code against big boxes. (of course we also have an ordinance against foul language, but you hear it daily on the paths)

We dropped the ball 3 times, lets not make it a habit. If we want to keep shoppers here we need upsacale stores. The only reason people spend their money in Buckhead is to purchase top quality products. Whether it is hot restaurants or Frontgate most people want quality products.

If you can't provide that we don't need you!!

I for one am glad that stuart and cindy showed some backbone for a change.

How many times do the citizens here have to beg for high quality products??

Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 6:24pm.

Trader Joes would fit nicely in the old Kroger spot. But NO, goodwill is going in. They can move to the old Kohls building when they get bought out.

Can't the Council see what is going on?

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 6:33pm.

It sounds like at least 2 of our councilmen found their backbone.

Maybe Cal's current big box poll will help them see the light. Less crime more upscale. How can we make it any clearer for them?

Only the developers are for this project. The walley/home despot parking lot has been used for drug stings and a couple of sex offender stings. Not good. Not what we need here.

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 3:59pm.

Let me tell you something partner, there's a time and place for everything, but , this is neither the time or place for your profanity, if you can't convey your points with using that language take it somewhere else.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


Submitted by LocalYokel on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 4:10pm.

My apologies for the profanity. It is however time to be proactive rather than let a lesser known, undesirable business come in its place.

Submitted by madprof on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 3:54pm.

I love it how the Logston Party cites The Avenue as if it were typical of commercial development in PTC. About the only thing typical about it is the recent destruction of most of the landscaping around it. We heard we were going to get more of The Avenue when Target bullied its way into the Kedron shopping center; today that ugly mass of blacktop looks a whole lot more like Riverdale.

But the point about neeeded tax revenues is a good one. If all these developers get their way, the taxes will be needed to chop down PTC's remaining trees and 10-lane the local roads to accommodate shoppers from Fulton, Clayton and Coweta counties--as well as moving vans to get the rest of us as far away as possible.

Submitted by Fair and balanc... on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 3:04pm.

I attended the meeting Tuesday Night having never met the developer nor any of the council members previously. My observations are as Follows:
Cindy Plunkett, who probably lived in PTC her whole life is in a word a cartoon. Clearly she is in desperate need of some shred of miniscule power validation since the "librarian that collects overdue charges position" was filled. Clearly she is on a inane crusade to defraud PTC out of needed tax revenue dollars and was first to set a hysterical pitch and belligerent tone for the meeting like strung out gopher loose from her imaginary Peyton Place Brigadoon stating "It's not that I don't like Big Boxes just not in my town" and " Like it or not I was elected to make these decisions" ( anybody see all the I's and My's) Hello, it's 2007. Where do you shop? Publix? or just from home thru catalogs. Next up was the ugly hostile unprofessional display of bullying and name calling hostility from Stuart Kourajian A/K/A "Mr.I need to be important and interrupt everyone since I am clueless and want to maintain my 100% negative voting record on everything".." I state for the record I do not compromise I will never compromise" Now there's somebody you want looking out for your interests ...one that can really really work with people. ...scary..and by the way anybody catch the continuing "I" syndrome?) Particularly telling was his " tell me again what are we talking about" comment .... Somebody please pass him the cliff notes ...this project has been discussed for ONLY 18 months over and over even the mayor acknowledged it had been "beaten to death". They and the council are public embarrassment to PTC. They have no concern but for themselves and should be removed before they bankrupt they city.

Submitted by skyspy on Fri, 09/07/2007 - 10:22pm.

Rule number one when telling a whopper of a lie at least be consistent on the main details.

Sheeesh, telling a lie should be fairly easy, even for you.

Was it Monday or Tuesday??

Or did you make the whole thing up???

Go back to your bong.

Submitted by Fair and balanc... on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 2:52pm.

I attended the meeting Monday Night having never met the developer nor any of the council members previously. My observations are as Follows:
Cindy Plunkett, who probably lived in PTC her whole life is in a word a cartoon. Clearly she is in desperate need of some shred of miniscule power validation since the "librarian that collects overdue charges position" was filled. Clearly she is on a inane crusade to defraud PTC out of needed tax revenue dollars and was first to set a hysterical pitch and belligerent tone for the meeting like strung out gopher loose from her imaginary Peyton Place Brigadoon stating "It's not that I don't like Big Boxes just not in my town" and " Like it or not I was elected to make these decisions" ( anybody see all the I's and My's) Hello, it's 2007. Where do you shop? Publix? or just from home thru catalogs. Next up was the ugly hostile unprofessional display of bullying and name calling hostility from Stuart Kourajian A/K/A "Mr.I need to be important and interrupt everyone since I am clueless and want to maintain my 100% negative voting record on everything".." I state for the record I do not compromise I will never compromise" Now there's somebody you want looking out for your interests ...one that can really really work with people. ...scary..and by the way anybody catch the continuing "I" syndrome?) Particularly telling was his " tell me again what are we talking about" comment .... Somebody please pass him the cliff notes ...this project has been discussed for ONLY 18 months over and over even the mayor acknowledged it had been "beaten to death". They and the council are public embarrassment to PTC. They have no concern but for themselves and should be removed before they bankrupt they city.

LifeLongResident's picture
Submitted by LifeLongResident on Thu, 09/06/2007 - 12:29pm.

If the land use plan is so sacred that it must be followed to rubber stamp every subdivision that comes down the pike, then it must be used to deny the Kohl's development for the same reason.

If a person is willing to sacrifice a little freedom to gain a little security, they deserve neither - Ben Franklin


cowtipn's picture
Submitted by cowtipn on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 2:58pm.

.... Hooters' buffalo chickin sammich!


bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 12:49pm.

It was rumored months ago that if the "developer' didn’t get his way with this parcel of land, Lowe’s or Kohl’s, he would put in the most undesirable tenants he could find for a little strip shopping center that the zoning would allow.

I can see why the folks in Cardiff Park and Planterra Ridge subdivisions are concerned as they would rather have a Kohl’s over a Pep-Boys and a Hooters.

I sincerely hope the PTC City Council members don’t bow to this "developer" “extortion”, for lack of a better word.

One of the better city ordinances requires the owner to maintain the property to city standards even if it's not leased.

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t this the same “developer” who is suing the city because his rezoning request for a Lowe’s on TDK and 74 was denied?

It’s no wonder why “developers” are so highly regarded by the citizens of PTC.

Definition of “developer”: Someone who doesn’t give a flip about zoning, land use plans or what is good for the community. For a picture of a "developer", look under “Lawyer” and just above “Slime”.

I can’t imagine why lawyers have the reputation they do when there are so many “developers” still breathing.


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 5:52pm.

It is extortion. They picked the wrong crowd. Hooters would be great.

Also most roads cost at least a cool million to build, most cost 2. This sleeeeeeaaaaazzzzy developer should pay at least that.

Did he not get the TDK message when we tabled that development at a previous councilFOOLS meeting??

We would welcome Hooters and pepboys will be out of buisness in a year or so, just like all of the other lackluster buisnesses here. Congrats mccriminal you will have an empty strip mall like the one in braelin.

Word association for developer... I came up with pond scum, manure pile, and crook.

The cops have enough places for the drug stings ....we don't need you mccriminal.

Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 1:47pm.

using the word "almost". I think you're right, it is what it is.

Frankly, I would like to see a Hooter's there out of all the choices mentioned. But hey, some folks think I'm crazy. Smiling

Stinger's picture
Submitted by Stinger on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:34am.

Without those roads, there won’t be enough room on the site for the Kohl’s, which will also need a separate approval from the City Council for a special use permit because the city ordinance limits stores to a maximum size of 32,000 square feet.

Hey, two more great reasons why we shouldn't build a Kohl's!

I understand why Capital City is eager to build a Kohl's, but how do the residents of Peachtree City benefit? After all, it is our opinion that matters, and not McMurrian's, right?


JGF9148's picture
Submitted by JGF9148 on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:30am.

Put up this Big Box or else i'll ah,ah, build ah, Hooters ya thats the ticket i'll build a Hooters and a Pep Boy's ya thats right a Pep Boys and a what, what else ah, ah, peep show ya that will fix em. Give me a break Doug.


Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 8:22am.

Put me squarely in the camp against a Kohls, or any big box on this site. How many places do we need to buy cheap clothes? Fayetteville and Newnan have perfectly good Kohl's stores, if that's your thing.

Let the developer bluster all he wants, just don't approve it.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 6:40pm.

After all, how many pairs of pants does a shaved cat need?

Back to my old picture, so I can say "I don't have a dog in this fight" with real feelings.


Submitted by JJsMom on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 11:24am.

Do you think the developer isn't serious about Pep Boys, Hooters and QT? I wouldn't shop at Kohls either, but they tend to have a rather mild clientele in comparison.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Fri, 09/07/2007 - 8:37pm.

”Do you think the developer isn't serious about Pep Boys, Hooters and QT?” Yes, I don’t think the developer is serious. But I can see his propaganda has had the desired effect on you.

Since when is it in the best interest of a city to base a rezoning decision solely on what cliental a store will be patronized by?

Drugs are being sold in all the better shopping centers in Fayette County.

This developer is doing the usual “scare” tactic in order to get his way.

“This summer, McMurrain drew up a potential site plan for the area that included a Hooter’s restaurant, a Pep Boys auto parts store and a QuikTrip convenience store.”

Strange, the developer forgot to throw in an “Adult Book” store” & “Head” shop. That would have put the entire council over the top.

It was only a few months ago when Rick Lindsey tried that “exact” same thing with the folks in Wilshire Estates. “If you don’t let us build our regional shopping center who knows, maybe a manufacturer will build something with smoke stacks.” BULL FEATHERS!

The residents of Planterra and Cardiff Park need to grow a backbone and do what they’ve been preaching to their kids, “JUST SAY NO!” Maybe they should contact the Wilshire Estates HOA president and ask her what they did to beat Rick Lindsey. In the twenty plus years I’ve lived here, I’ve never seen Mr. Lindsey loose before. They should have sold tickets to that one.

Of the $35,997.58 in tax the other Kohl’s paid into Fayette County last year, PTC will only receive about 40% of that. So it seems as if the Mayor and other members of the council are willing to assist in selling PTC down the river for about $14,399.03 a year.

To make it simple for some of you, that’s about 1/3 to ½ the annual salary for a police officer or fireman. That won’t even cover the pay raises the City Council just voted themselves.

Now all the PTC City Council has to do is build/rezone two or three more “BIG BOXES” and we can have that new cart path officer. By the way, $14,399.03 a year, doesn’t take into account what this “BIG BOX” will cost in city services.

The developer wants a traffic light installed. Well that’s up to the Georgia DoT, not PTC. Is the developer going to pay for the new traffic light or does he just want one? They cost about $100,000. Additionally, that will amount to six, count em, SIX stoplights in less than a mile along one of the busiest roads in PTC. They’re called STOPlights for a reason.

The developer has to provide a traffic impact study but who is responsible for the cost benefit analyses for the city?

The PTC City Council has to STOP letting “BIG BOX” developers EXTORT their way in here via fear and intimidation at our expense.

(Any typo's are Get Real's responsibility)


Submitted by bladderq on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 6:34pm.

Do you know where he is? My favorite story was the one a friend told me about his neighbors. The husband told the wife H@@ters had a drive-thru. I wonder if he liked them nekked or breaded?

Submitted by JJsMom on Wed, 09/05/2007 - 9:52pm.

Your reply to my post made no sense but my husband doesn't have time for Hooter's. He's entertaining me and vice versa when not at work so you need not worry.

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