Basmati on pulling out of Iraq

Basmati's picture

**WARNING** NOT A LOCAL STORY

What do you think would happen if we pulled out of Iraq, say, next month? I'm interested in hearing various people's opinions.

Here is my take on the situation:

Obviously, the world would not stop spinning if the United States were to pull out of Iraq.

The Shi'ites and the Sunnis seemed bound and determined to have a civil war. Sadly, this appears it will be a civil war between religious factions, which is especially bad because each side feels that God (or "Allah", if you will) is on their respective side.

When I was in the Army, if there was bad blood between two soldiers, we'd put boxing gloves on them and sell popcorn. The stakes are much higher here, and it would appear that nothing is going to be settled until an unfortunate amount of blood is going to be shed.

From what I understand, outside of Kurd territories, Iraq is approximately 2/3 Shi'ite and 1/3 Sunnis. The Sunnis (and until recently, those uber-Sunnis known as Baathists) ran the government. The Shi'ites, not surprisingly, want payback and want to extend majority rule to essentially wipe out the minority party. From what I see, the sole benefit to having the US military in Iraq is to basically protect the rights of the minority parties until things stabilize.

The problem is large number of people in BOTH factions resent the US presence in Iraq, and each party uses the US as "bogeymen" to stir up resentment.

Complicating the matter is the fact that majority-Shi'ite Iran is aiding the Shi'ite faction in Iraq. What's really scary is that our nominal ally, Saudi Arabia, which is run by Sunni factions, has begun overtly supporting the Sunnis (both with words and weapons) in Iraq as something of a balance.

I think there's the potential for a "regional world war" in the Middle East if we're not careful. The Shi'ites have all but said they want to conduct an "ethnic cleansing" in Iraq, which they can't come out and admit because that would make them pariahs on the world stage.

I wonder if we pulled out of Iraq if things would truly get "worse", or would the parties involved eventually recognize (not unlike Lebanon) that it does no good to continue fighting?

What do you think?

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Enter the next Armaggedon
DragNet's picture
Submitted by DragNet on Wed, 05/02/2007 - 2:24pm.

Leaving Iraq last month would only speed up the demise of that region as we know it. Iraq will become a black hole where the saudis and the persians (read Sunnis and Shias) will embark on a bloody struggle to control and influence the middle east. After the humiliating scenes of the U.S. in retreat (a replay of Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia), darkness will fall on mesopotamia and we will be set for a long war, the surge of numerous warlords and a haven for Al Qaeda and other Islamist/Jihadist.
What a legacy! The banner of "Mission Accomplished" will acquire a new meaning (accomplished, yes, but for Al Qaeda). Thanks to the Bushies, the Bremers, the Rumsfelds and the Cheneys. What a bunch of incompetents!

-----------------------------------
Making you think twice......


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Enigma, and all who follow Iraq debates:
AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Wed, 05/02/2007 - 2:54pm.

This is copied completely without permission from Enigma:

Hack, you and I really don't know what is best. I can accept that. Can you? I'm not sure I even know WHO knows what is best. Do you?

Why does this have to be so filled with anger and divisiveness? I served- you served- we don’t have to agree...but we sure as heck better get this one right on the “world wide war on Muslim extremists” or a lot of American civilians are going to die - again. When I was in the job one (at OUR expense) was to keep that from happening. Has it changed?

I will not let this keep me from considering you a friend. We just don't agree.

ENIGMA hit this one out of the park, and it effected me to my core.

I did my job. I voted. Nothing I say on these blogs will change what happens in Iraq. It is the job of our President, his advisors, and the Congress to slug it out. Not mine. So I'm going to sit back, enjoy and respect the opinions of my fellow bloggers, and I'll keep bragging on the random acts of bravery from law enforcement, military, first responders, local and distant. I've been a much happier Hack since reading and heading Enigma (AKA my Nigma).
Hopefully we all come around to the old fashioned idea of agressively arguing our points while purposely respecting the opinion from the other side. I honestly think that our Congress and White House will come around to this way of thinking when they see how little they get done as adversaries. Cheers, and you guys Kick .....ummm, Buttocks. Smiling

Kevin "Hack" King


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hack
hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Wed, 05/02/2007 - 3:00pm.

We haven't heard from Enigma since all ya'll crawled into the back seat, Denise and Bas have been in the usual knife fight, I guess she didn't make it into that backseat, dollar still incoherent but verbose, and the rest is the same ol' same ol'. Glad to see you back.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


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Hutch, are you mad at me?
Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Thu, 05/03/2007 - 1:43am.

In my post about language, I emphasized the conduct of officers. Smiling

"Denise and Bas have been in the usual knife fight" --

Who's winning?


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Denise
hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 05/03/2007 - 5:48am.

No, I'm not mad at you, that is the closest I can come to what you and bas do on these boards.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


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Hutch, Thanks!
Denise Conner's picture
Submitted by Denise Conner on Thu, 05/03/2007 - 2:12pm.

All I ask is that all critics look at who responds to a reasoned opinion with personal attacks ("Christianist," being one) and a not-so-subtle threat to have someone removed.

(Direct quote here Denise):
"Posters who post under several names are in effect defrauding the owner of this site and misleading our readers. Such multiple posters will be banned once discovered."
(End direct quote)

If Most Angry & Vicious has any proof of this charge or of my being a sexual pervert, let him put forth the evidence and let everyone decide.

As I believe you were the one who said (paraphrase): If someone swings at me, I punch back. I don't bring out the spinach until I'm forced. Smiling


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Denise
hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Thu, 05/03/2007 - 3:17pm.

I'm not judging either one of you,and I'm not sure how someone could post under more then 1 name unless they were willing to go to multiple locations{like work, home, library or a net cafe or something, personaly sounds like to much work to me.
Now dollar did accuse me of being Enigma, or vice-versa but thats just dollar. I'm trying my best not to respond to him anymore for he is the tar baby, the more you respond the more enmeshed you become.You and bas are going to have to agree to disagree, neither will ever convert the other. I still can't get the image of you two, each with an end of a short leather strap in your teeth, slashing away at each other. Good luck to you both on that.

I yam what I yam...Popeye


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Greetings Bas. You touched on our dilemma.
AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sun, 04/29/2007 - 12:15pm.

It is very difficult to fix our enemy. There are so many facets to this diamond it is truly hard to define a focal point. To avoid destabilizing the different sides, we are serving as buffers while we hope a centralized government will bring stability. Problem is, there are many elements who will never recognize that government.
Two reporters that have spent the majority of last year and this one in Iraq were interviewed earlier this week. They both said emphatically that it will be disasterous for us to leave. The huge problem is neither of them saw unifying forces at work between the factions.
This will become a matter determined by when we lose patience. I can't see any improvement on the horizon. I believe what we have is what we will get for as long as we are there, and when we leave, it will definitely turn for the worse.

Kevin "Hack" King


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AFA10: Leaving Iraq
Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Sun, 04/29/2007 - 1:10pm.

You are correct in saying it will get worse when we leave Iraq, much worse.
The kicker is though, that it is going to happen whether we leave now, or five years from now!
They MUST fight it out to see who rules and gets the oil, they MUST.
When they decide one or the other side has lost, then one will give in, as they did with Saddam, and go about their business as they have for thousands of years.

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