Logsdon looking for ‘unbiased’ TDK advice (with audio)

Tue, 04/24/2007 - 4:51pm
By: John Munford
Now listen to the audio of the meeting, see below

The Peachtree City Council has agreed to seek a cost estimate for an “unbiased” consultant to study traffic and other ramifications from the proposed extension of TDK Boulevard into Coweta County.

Mayor Harold Logsdon suggested the idea, saying the city needs an unbiased opinion on the matter, especially in light of impending development on Coweta’s side of the road.

Logsdon noted that the project has been in the city’s plans since 1972. But things have changed recently as the Coweta County Commission has approved a 3,100-home residential development that would be located on the Coweta side of the extended TDK Boulevard.

“That’s only the tip of the iceberg of what’s coming,” Logsdon said, referring to a conversation City Manager Bernie McMullen had recently with Coweta officials. “We need to know more definitively the traffic impact we’re going to have and I would like to spend the money to get a consultant to get a professional opinion.”

Logsdon said he wanted the city to select a consultant from perhaps the University of Georgia or Georgia Tech. The mayor said he mainly wants to make sure the report that comes back is unbiased, “somebody unrelated to the issues here.”

“It would give us more information to base our decision on,” said Councilman Steve Boone, who suggested that council make sure the consultant doesn’t have ties to the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority or Fayette or Coweta counties.

“It’s a good idea to see at least what it’s gonna cost to do it,” said Councilman Stuart Kourajian, who noted that the city’s most recent study on the road doesn’t factor in the pending Coweta developments.

Logsdon brought the matter up a short time after the Peachtree City Civic Association asked Council to stop the TDK Extension based on the potential negative impacts of public safety, traffic and the environment, among others. The association presented a position paper to the City Council to support its assertion.

“I share a lot of the concerns that are in this,” Logsdon said of the document. “I’m wondering if council would like to entertain pursuing a consultant to give us an unbiased opinion of the need, benefits, disadvantages of TDK?”

Logsdon’s proposal came at the very end of a council meeting in which he verbally sparred with Civic Association President Paul Van’t Hof over an anonymous Free Speech item in last week’s issue of The Citizen that criticized Logsdon for allegedly admitting he was “a telephone lineman and not the financial genius he made himself out to be.”

The anonymous person “... took a shot at me because I was a lineman 44 years ago,” Logsdon said.

“I do not have to apologize for who I worked for or the career path I took to get to this point,” Logsdon said. “And an anonymous person taking shots at me, this goes either to the character of that person or your association.”

Logsdon said he was certain that the negative comment came from a member of the civic association since that was a topic of discussion at a meeting between himself, McMullen and several members of the civic association.

Van’t Hof said the Free Speech item didn’t come from him and he doesn’t know who submitted it.

“When I take my time and come and meet with you guys and I do it openly and honestly, I don’t expect that kind of treatment right back,” Logsdon said.

The exchange was heated and Councilwoman Judi-ann Rutherford tried twice to halt it, saying the council meeting “was not the time or the place” to hash out the disagreement.

At the end of the meeting, however, Logsdon attempted somewhat to bury the hatchet, asking association representatives to meet with him again “If you ... will still speak to me again.”

“A lot of this stuff I concur on, a lot of it I’ve got some questions on. Let’s discuss this and see if we’ve got some common ground,” Logsdon said.

Association representatives agreed to take Logsdon up on his offer.

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Submitted by new2ptc on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 10:25am.

In my analysis I can only conclude the Mayor decided his only defense would be a good offense. If you don’t like the message - attack the messenger. What else could he do to defend his position on TDK? Logic and reasoning is in favor of those opposing the project.

Mr. Mayor, your plan was truly OFFENSIVE! Sir, I believe you should do the right thing and make an apology to Mr. Vant Hof in the same environment as you made your accusations: in an open meeting with Mr. Vant Hof present.

Submitted by skyspy on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 7:28am.

Can anyone tell me why this bum is still in office? Why have we not re-called/or impeached this idiot?

harold no more y-trash-notts before meetings.

secret squirrel's picture
Submitted by secret squirrel on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 9:06am.

Can you explain what that means? "Y-trash-knotts?"


Mixer's picture
Submitted by Mixer on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 10:56am.

It's the cans at the entrance to the play park at the Y club. Eye-wink

**********************************************
Is there bias on the war coverage? Click Here
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Submitted by Jones on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 5:58am.

This AUDIO is great! Listen to Prosecutor Harold “Hit You With The Rubber Hose” Logsdon interrogate the poor witness Peachtree City Civic Assoc. President Paul Van’t Hof. The mayor is supposed to be discussing THE TDK EXTENSION!!!!

Mr. Van’t Hof is right, stick to the issue Mr. Mayor! Just because he can’t defend his stance on TDK doesn’t mean the “lineman” mayor can pick on the audience members.

Submitted by Roadrunner on Thu, 04/26/2007 - 12:19pm.

Its hard to give unbiased advice about something that's going to quicken the destruction of a way of life that residents of PTC & Fayette county paid a premium to enjoy. Harold, I'm not sure what is worse, that you are so clueless that you don't realize how horrific for PTC TDK is going to be whether temporarily 2 lanes or immediately 4, or that you are so in bed with the high dollar developers that you'd sell out the citizens you are elected to serve just to repay campaign or other contributions from the only group thats going to benefit by the bridge/road. I apologize if this doesn't sound unbiased, I'm sure you can spend some taxpayer money to hear what you want to hear.

secret squirrel's picture
Submitted by secret squirrel on Thu, 04/26/2007 - 6:07am.

Anyone have a pacifier handy? I can think of two adults who need to put one in their respective mouths rather than speaking. That audio reveals the silliness and pettiness (including Judi-Ann, the self-appointed mommy of the board) that infects various civic organizations and their elected officials.

And it's more than alarming that the primary news organ in the county and especially Peachtree City is the driving force behind many controversies including this one. I recall a journalism course I took as an undergrad in which we learned, among other things, journalists should report the story not become the story.


bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Thu, 04/26/2007 - 7:32am.

One of the things you should have gotten out of the "one" journalism course you took should have been the ability to "listen". I hope you understand the difference between hearing someone speak and listening to someone speak.

Apparently you didn't pass the class.

That noise you herd, after councilwoman Rutherford said that this was not the time or place, was the entire public side of the council room applauding her statement.

Why don't you try attending some city council meetings to see what really happens at some of them.

By the way, where is it written that the Mayor gets to take up 5 minuets of time to berate a private citizen?


secret squirrel's picture
Submitted by secret squirrel on Thu, 04/26/2007 - 7:50am.

Nothing you have said refutes a single point I made. So what if the audience applaudes after Rutherford's comment? If they responded with a thunderous roar of happiness it doesn't change a single thing I wrote. As for attending council meetings, you assume I don't and you know what is oft said about assuming. And Rutherford does like to act like a mother hen.

And it is written nowhere that a mayor or councilmember gets to take time to berate anyone- any more or less than is allowed under accepted rules of procedure. Logsdon was completely out of line and misinformed and committed the same mistake you did above: he assumed when he should not.


bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 12:47pm.

If it will work in NY, it will work here too.

Charge every out of county car $8.00 to use TDK.

NY plans congestion charge and a million new trees


Submitted by momandpop on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 7:38am.

Mr Mayor

You have used the oldest trick in the book,ie put it off on a third party when the opposition get heated. I have seen this so much. If too many folk show up to protest a rezoning etc, rather than go ahead and vote for the matter, the council will "postpose" the decision. If government has a big problem, the leaders love to appoint a BLUE RIBBION COMMITTEE to study the issue. Then hopefully after the opposition gets tired and moves on, the powers that be do what they intended to start with.
Mr Mayor, in your heart of hearts you know the only reason TDK is going through is because the well-connected real estate developers in this area have seen an opportunity to make millions in Coweta. These same folk have supported you and your allies not because they want to help Peachtree City or Fayette County. They have suported you because they want to make money in Coweta and everybody knows this plan of theirs will not be good for Peachtree City or Fayette County. They will get the tax revenue: we will get the traffic and worse.
So what will you do Mr Mayor? Hire all the consultants you want. Tell them what you want them to say. Continue to throw away our tax money trying to justify what your supporters put you in office to do,namely, getting the TDK passed. OR, look yourself in the mirror and realize that you are elected to represent the interests of the citizens of Peachtree City. Admit you have been mistaken in this ill conceived venture and then do the right thing- STOP TDK.

Submitted by Jones on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 6:31am.

Who gives a flying "you know what" if the mayor was a telephone lineman? And most of all, why should the mayor get angry over someone calling him telephone lineman if he actually was a telephone lineman?

Mayor Logsdon is so shallow it's no wonder why he can't convince anyone TDK is a good idea.

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 7:54am.

Now we will have the telephone and electrical linemen raising cane about degradation of their work.
Didn't Lincoln split logs for goodness sake? Huh, oh, are there any log splitters left?
I think Harry Truman cleaned barn stalls, also. Of course that is what farmers do, isn't it?
Only PTC upper class would hate someone who strung lines or mucked horse manure.

Submitted by new2ptc on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 9:11pm.

I was at the meeting and I heard no “sparring” or “exchange” of words. I heard the Mayor make an accusation that someone in Mr. Vant Hof’s, what derogatory term did the Mayor call the group, called him a “lineman.”

When the Mayor finished making a show of himself I think most of the people there were stunned that the Mayor would use his position to make an unprovoked attack on a citizen in an open meeting. Mr. Vant Hof’s only response was to maintain composure and stay on the topic.

No sir Mr. Munford your report is biased to make the Mayor appear as if he was protecting himself and that was not the case at all. It is on sided reports like this and unjustified actions taken by the Mayor that has lead to the creation of the Civic Association.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 7:58am.

I see I missed a "great" meeting. Our City council went "Cho" on yet another citizen.

At this point we would be better off if they all resigned and we held another election for every seat. You bums need to go.

You knuckleheads work for us......the sooner you get a handle on your anger management the better.

harold and company ...you better check with Chief Murray, but I think verbal assault, can be considered what those police types call "simple assault" If the attack is vicious enough you can get charged with it. If you ever attack me like that in public you will get charged with it...........FYI!

secret squirrel's picture
Submitted by secret squirrel on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 8:36am.

Do you really think it's prudent, intelligent or decent to compare a disagreement at a city council meeting with the VT shooter? Labelling the mayor and council's actions as "Cho" is an equivocation that reflects more on your lack of character than anything else.


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 10:01am.

harold if you don't like my analogy you and your council need to stop attacking the very people you work for. You work for us, the residents of PTC.

This is the second time that you people have viciously attacked a citizen.

I won't apologize for my analogy.

You all need to resign. We could easily replace all of you, and we really need to. It is obvious that none of you can handle the responsibility of the job.

Everytime you knuckleheads attack a senior citizen in a public meeting you can look forward to sharp criticism from me.

secret squirrel's picture
Submitted by secret squirrel on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 12:02pm.

So now I'm Harold? I've been a poster on this site for two weeks longer than you and you are still clueless enough to think I'm Logsdon? We'll both get a laugh out of that one.

In deference to you, here's some very simple advice: go back, search my posting history here and try not to sound so utterly ignorant next time.

As that answers your strawman argument, we'll move on to your excuse for equating a city council meeting squabble with a university assassin who murdered 32 people. Your attempt to defend it, weak as that is, is as laughable as it is pathetic. Rather than admit you made a gross error in judgement you're going to stick by your guns and ride this one out. While some people might find that kind of devotion to a lost cause admirable, it really makes you appear all that much more foolish.

Calling for the council and mayor to resign is a lovely and charming retort. It is also irrelevant to the discussion. I cannot characterize the argument at the council meeting because I was not there. I feel safe, however, in asserting that your equivocation of anything in that dispute as being "Cho-like" is ignorantly hyperbolic.


Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 1:58pm.

Why so defensive...............if you are not a coucilfool??

Have a good day.........it's beautiful outside! Put the top down on the convertible.......

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 7:46pm.

I am an unbiased observer of this circus - in spite of what others in this forum have said about me. So here is my unbiased advice
1. Do not talk to or talk back to "Civic Association" people. You can't ever win. They are out to destroy you. They don't care about the issues on which they speak. Do not give them a platform.
2. Taking things personally and responding to them is a bad idea. Learn from the previous mayor - ignore all criticism and pursue your agenda - if in fact you have one.
3. TDK is going to get built no matter what you or others think, say or do. Get on with it. 2 lanes with space for 4 is the only real option. That gets you back in good graces with GRETA. That means we can still get grant money from those higher up the food chain to pursue our idealistic transportaion projects.

Hope that is clear and you take the advice.


Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Tue, 04/24/2007 - 8:30pm.

I was at the meeting, and anybody with a brain can see who is pushing the buttons of the "Civic Association". They went outside after the exchange and seemed to be proud of what happened.

I'm still not sure TDK has to be built immediately. It should be fairly obvious that Coweta is planning on using it for their on-ramp to 74 and on northward to I-85.

Even Coweta says the zoning has to be revisited if TDK isn't built, at about 1/3 the size they approved assuming TDK is built. That fact is enough to give me pause.

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 4:19am.

You have to remember that GRETA recommended that it be built and the way the rules are written if a city or a county does not follow their recommendation, the state can withold road building funds. Our relationship with the state is shaky at best thanks to the previous mayor and it would be easy for them to not fund something we really need in the future.

That being said, if we are willing to kill TDK and get the Coweta project reduced in size, then it may be worth it - as long as we go into that with eyes wide open. Future city leaders will bemoan the "Logsdon" decision to thumb our nose at GRETA. Of course the rabid anti-growthers would be satisfied because any rezoning or annexation that was dependent upon roadway expansion would be impossible.

It may be worth taking the risk, but we'll never find out because the current mayor and council don't appear to be risktakers - and they are predisposed to build the TDK extention anyway.


Submitted by McDonoughDawg on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 8:25am.

I think it is worth it to kill it for now. GRETA seems more interested in cramming a bus system down our throats than anything. IF GRETA really wants to help this area, get busy with the 74/I-85 Interchange and expanding 154 to 4 lanes for Coweta County. Adding some ramps at 92 would be nice too. When GRETA shows interest in things like these, I'll be more concerned with PTC keeping them happy

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 04/25/2007 - 7:48am.

I'm tired of your threats about the state not giving Fayette County money due to not building what will hurt us in PTC.
To hell with them, if that is the case, which I doubt!

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Fri, 04/27/2007 - 6:53am.

I'm just repeating what GTETA has said in public meetings and quoting from their charter - ironically approved bt the first head of GRETA about 15 years ago - Joel Cowan.

But, I too am willing to take that risk. Kill the road, reduce the size of Reese's project and move on and live with what we got.

Now, how do you get our distracted Mayor to pull that off?


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