Your assertion that, “Joe Wilson was a political hack. Big time suck up to Democrat Presidents. Appointments were hard to get under Republicans, but he kept trying and eventually got one.” is not supported by the facts.

Wilson served from 1981-1982 as Administrative Officer in the Embassy in Pretoria, South Africa, appointed by Ronald Reagan.

1982-1985 as Deputy Chief of Mission (DCM) at the US Embassy in Bujumbura, Burundi, appointed by Ronald Reagan.

Wilson then served from 1986-1988: as DCM at the US Embassy in Brazzaville, Republic of the Congo appointed by Ronald Reagan.

Wilson then served from 1988-1991 as DCM, at the US Embassy Baghdad, Iraq appointed by GHW Bush.

You also write that: “Valerie Plame was not "under cover…. "Under cover" - meaning protected by the specific law that prevents a government official who has knowledge of the "under cover" status revealing it is in fact illegal. "Covert" means the employment status is secret.”

At the risk of repeating myself, here is the relevant section of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act defining covert which is, in fact, illegal to divulge.

(4) The term “covert agent” means:
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or
(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information, and—
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; or
(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency.

Valerie Plame was identified as a NOC by Elisabeth Bumiller, in an article published in the New York Times on 5 October 2003: “But within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in non-conventional weapons who worked overseas, had "nonofficial cover", and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a NOC, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create. While most undercover agency officers disguise their real profession by pretending to be American embassy diplomats or other United States government employees, Ms. Plame passed herself off as a private energy expert. Intelligence experts said that NOCs have especially dangerous jobs.”

I don’t see how your erroneous information makes me the fool.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

I believe that he's the know-it-all son of the infamous President Peanut, born Donnel Jeffrey Carter in 1952.

http://www.ibiblio.org/lia/president/CarterLibrary/GeneralMaterials/Biographies/RosalynnCarter-bio.html

"Good guy"? Please explain.

From what I remember there was a huge increase in the federal deficit, economic stagnation and double-digit inflation, HIGH interest rates (prime of 21.5%, the highest rate in U.S. history under any president), high unemployment, slow economic growth, big increase in the payroll tax for Social Security, etc.

He gave away the Panama Canal and sought to weaken U.S. defenses with the SALT II Treaty. Then, of course, he handled the Iranian Hostage Crisis so well - 66 taken hostage in Tehran & held 444 days & paraded before the media blindfolded. Their release happened just minutes after Ronald Reagan was sworn in.

You can read Alan Dershowitz's comments about Carter's "bias against Israel" (to put it mildly) that appears in Carter's book Palestine, Peace, Not Apartheid at the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/the-world-according-to-ji_b_34702.html

See also http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E4DC1F31F934A35752C0A9619C8B63

"Yasir Arafat is portrayed as someone who disavowed terrorism" & other "misrepresentations."

====

"YOU CAN ALWAYS tell when a public figure has written an indefensible book: when he refuses to debate it in the court of public opinion. And you can always tell when he's a hypocrite to boot: when he says he wrote a book in order to stimulate a debate, and then he refuses to participate in any such debate. I'm talking about former president Jimmy Carter and his new book Palestine Peace Not Apartheid.

"Carter's book has been condemned as 'moronic' (Slate), 'anti-historical' (The Washington Post), 'laughable' (San Francisco Chronicle), and riddled with errors and bias in reviews across the country." Alan Dershowitz, a liberal professor of law at Harvard University

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/12/21/why_wont_carter_debate_his_book/

I'm sure that there are a lot more outrageous things that Carter's done. Anyone want to add to the list?

You are trying to word smith the facts on a case which has produced a guilty verdict on numerous counts. You think talking points are unique to democrats ("cut and run," "cut and jog," "culture of life," "rule of law"). You will soon have the opportunity to vote for
1) The guy with 12 grandmothers
2) The couple with 6 wedding rings and 4 exes shared between them and
3) Mr. Derailed straight talk express, Iraq is going well no matter what the facts point out.

But Jeff Carter is the "fool?" You might wish to take the court jester hat and clown nose off when you write your next post.

Kevin "Hack" King

ps: What I wouldn't give for the diplomatic sense of President Carter in the White House right this instant.

Jimmy meets with Ahmadinejad in Tehran. Ahmadinejad will agree to stop his nuclear weapons development in exchange for billions of dollars in aid, gasoline, and a nuclear reactor. Jimmy returns to America waving a piece of paper and declaring peace in our time!

The reason this will work is because we will demand that all weapons grade nuclear material produced and collected thus far will be locked with BIG padlocks in Tehran. Then we will give the only keys to the U.N. and have the facility monitored by international weapons-inspectors!

How does that sound?

Maximus

Your plan, although it sounds great, will not work. Instead of having the International Atomic Energy Inspectors take control of the spent fuel rods and removing them from the country, the Bush administration would claim that another nuclear development program was underway and renege on the deal. Only after the Iranians threw out the UN inspectors and reprocessed the fuel rods into nuclear weapons and detonated an atomic bomb would the administration finally admit that, (oops!) there really wasn’t any other program and (gosh!) we should negotiate a vastly inferior deal which provides the Iranians with much more than the original deal for much less return. And by the way, let’s hope nobody notices that our incompetence led to the Iranians now having nuclear weapons, developed from processing the fuel rods that the original deal had negotiated to be removed from the country.

I know it sounds like a great idea! But when national security issues like letting axis-of-evil countries develop nuclear weapons comes up against the ideological purity of not negotiating with them, well…. its just not a contest.

You’re right Jeff. Even the most brilliant plan will fail if just one rascally republican gets involved. Take Jimmy’s innovative economic and energy plans while he was Pres. I’m not sure how the republican minority messed it up and caused the obscene unemployment and stagflation, and enregy crisis, but somehow they did.

Maximus

p.s.
My fondest memory of the Carter presidency was when he went to three-mile island to prove that there was no danger. And to think all those scientists said it would cause brain damage. What a bunch..of...,um..anyway, that was great.

M.

It seems you are re-fighting the Battle of the Save. Better luck this time!

But yes, as you have recognized, through passage of the Solar Energy Research, Development, and Demonstration Act and Federal Non-Nuclear Energy Research and Development Act, the National Energy Act of 1978, the Natural Gas Policy Act of 1979 and actual construction of facilities and filling of the Strategic Petroleum Reserve (authorized by the 1975 Energy Policy and Conservation Act ); consumption of foreign oil did go down, from 48 percent when Carter took office to 40 percent in 1980, with a reduction of 1.8 million barrels a day.

Most of these programs were discontinued by Republicans and as a result the United States imports 58 percent of the oil it consumes today. Federal officials project that by 2025, the country will have to import 68 percent of its oil. Of course, most of the money for foreign oil goes to support and finance Islamists countries and their anti-American agendas as well as a significant portion going to Chavez in Venezuela.

However the good news is that even President Bush recognizes the danger of our dependence on foreign oil as shown by his last State of the Union speech. Its kind of a shame that 30 years was wasted and so much money was put in the Islamists pockets but progress is progress and better late than never.

Wow, Jeff, with all those government programs how could we possibly be in want of any more energy now? Have you ever heard of the free market? If we had relied solely on domestic energy over the past twenty-five years, and it could be done, our GDP would be about half of what it is now. Cheap Arab oil would be flowing to every country except the U.S. The Islamists would still be trying to bring us done, but with a much weaker economy would have an easier time of it.

Maximus

But Maximus, On Apr. 27, speaking to the SBA, President Bush called for an energy plan that would wean the U.S. from imported fuels. "Our dependence on foreign energy is like a foreign tax on the American people,"

The President also said, “What the country needs is a national strategy. For the sake of this country, for the sake of a growing economy, and for the sake of national security, we've got to do what it takes to expand our independence.”

I urge you to quit supporting this foreign tax on Americans and come over from the dark side and support President Bush.

Even though science has proven little danger of harm to the environment, Alaska Oil goes untapped so we must import. Drilling off coasts is opposed. The best is the Not in my backyard fight the Kennedy's have against wind power. Go figure.

You are fixated on Kennedys to the point that you failed to mention Jebb Bush opposing wind mills off of Florida's coast. Aren't you glad you had me to back you up?

Kevin "Hack" King

Because you appear to be inextricably trapped in the past. With the current state of your bedfellows, I understand. I understand. Do I vote for the adulterers (two to choose from so far) or the guy the religious right would call a cult member? Decisions, decisions. But if you vote Giuliani, you definitely won't have to deal with his son defending him on line.

Kevin "Hack" King

I’m still trying to learn the ground rules around here. Exactly how far in the past are we allowed to go?

Since Ahmadinejad took part in the American hostage taking, and the overthrow of the Shah under Jimmy’s watch, I thought there was some relevance in the historical references.

I guess I could just switch to mud-slinging since that seems to be more fashionable.

Maximus

are fair game! After all, I went back to 388 for the Battle of the Save.

Gotta run so a real quicky of the Shah:

Eisenhower, 1952 CIA/British/Mossad coup against Mohammed Mossadegh, Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, SAVAK, popular uprising, Shah dead from cancer a year later anyway.

Hack, you gave me a great idea when you said that we could use the diplomatic talent of Jimmy at a time like this. I called the old dude up and we came up with this plan. We’re going to call it Operation Eagle Claw.

We’re going to let all the service branches participate so that no one feels left out. The plan is to send in six C130s to rendezvous with nine RH-53s at a remote desert airstrip south of Tehran. Then the Rangers and Marines and Air force special ops troops, who have never worked with each other, will board the helicopters and head for Tehran to get the hostages. Then they’ll go to a different desert airstrip to meet some C130s that will fly the hostages to glorious freedom!

If things don’t go as planned we’ll just crash a couple of the helicopters into the C130s, leave the rest of the helicopters for the Iranian navy to use, and make sure we leave behind classified information on U.S. agents within Iran.

How does that sound?

Maximus

It sounds like at least 3100 fewer deaths than we've seen in Iraq. The difference is, one of these tragedies is ongoing and even has enablers that cheer it along from the safety of their couches. They remain largely divorced from brave troops running a maze of snipers and IEDs. I find that a bit disgusting. The boldness to cheer it on without critical oversight or virtually any shared sacrifice. By the way, how many of those hostages were lost?

Kevin "Hack" King

How little things change. 4020 and counting Maximus; still ongoing; still perpetual; and still no shared sacrifice. How long do you think our guys will try to make peace between Sunni and Shiite and Baathist?

Kevin "Hack" King

.

Sounds like what you git when you let the Pentagon play in the sand box w/out adult supervision. Don't worry after last Nov. the adults are back in charge.

Plus + President Carter is damned if he Do and damned if he DON'T.

If these guys, caled republicans, had been married 26 times each, had 14 illegitimate babies, had three Mafia uncles, married to six women at the same time, daughters and wife had six abortions between them, had 4 homosexual children living the life in S.F.,
made fortunes in the payday loan business, sold dope on the street in N.Y., and had four felony counts pending, it wouldn't make any difference how they voted! It would be for any one of them, instead of any democrat. The only thing they can't do is reduce the budget deficit, increase taxes on rich people and corporations, and be at peace. (and take care of soldiers)

Sorry, I have been traveling and so I am late responding to your questions. I will address those you highlighted as they seem the most important to you.

Thomas Sowell: " Why did special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald put a reporter in jail and ruin a government official's life in an "investigation" of things he already knew…”

Novak’s original column in which he revealed Plame’s identity, cited “two administration officials” so even if he knew one was Armitage, it was not immediately clear who the other was. Nor was it at all clear that only two officials were involved. In fact, as it turned out there were numerous administration officials who were involved in trying to discredit Plame. The investigation was, of course, initiated because the Director of the CIA filed an official brief demanding the investigation and prosecution of whoever blew the cover of an undercover and covert CIA agent.

You then write: “Fitzgerald discovered early on that the leaker was not any of the White House officials on whom suspicion was focussed.” This is not in accordance with facts in the reality-based community. Speculation immediately fell on Rove and Cheney which turned out to be exactly right according to sworn testimony at Libby’s trial.

I am unsure how to respond to your writing, “Joe Wilson's wife had a desk job at the C.I.A. and revealing that fact was not a violation of the criminal law.” It is obvious that facts will not sway you. However, I will review them and you can take them or leave them as you see fit.

CIA Director Michael Hayden approved a statement read before the opening of Henry Waxman's Government Reform and Oversight Committee investigating the Valerie Plame affair. The statement from Director Hayden said: “During her employment at the CIA, Ms. Wilson was under cover. Her employment status with the CIA was classified information prohibited from disclosure under Executive Order 12958. At the time of the publication of Robert Novak's column on July 14, 2003, Ms. Wilson's CIA employment status was covert. This was classified information.”

Valerie Plame testified under oath saying: “Congressman, thank you for the opportunity. I know I'm here under oath and I'm here to say that I was a covert officer of the Central Intelligence Agency.”

Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald told reporters last week, after Libby was found guilty on four of the five counts of perjury and obstruction of justice, that Plame's "relationship with the CIA was classified. And I have 100 percent confidence in that information."

You can believe the director of the CIA, Plame’s sworn testimony and SC Fitzgerald’s statement or not. As sources, they seem pretty good to me.

You write several times that there was no underlying crime. Since I have actually read most of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, I will post the relevant section for you describing the covert agent section:

(4) The term “covert agent” means:
(A) a present or retired officer or employee of an intelligence agency or a present or retired member of the Armed Forces assigned to duty with an intelligence agency—
(i) whose identity as such an officer, employee, or member is classified information, and
(ii) who is serving outside the United States or has within the last five years served outside the United States; or
(B) a United States citizen whose intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information, and—
(i) who resides and acts outside the United States as an agent of, or informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency, or
(ii) who is at the time of the disclosure acting as an agent of, or informant to, the foreign counterintelligence or foreign counterterrorism components of the Federal Bureau of Investigation; or
(C) an individual, other than a United States citizen, whose past or present intelligence relationship to the United States is classified information and who is a present or former agent of, or a present or former informant or source of operational assistance to, an intelligence agency.

As you can see, your statement: "In fact, her being classified -- that is, that her work was a government secret -- did not in itself meet the standard required for prosecution of the leaker (former Deputy Secretary of State Armitage) under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. That statute limits prosecution to exposers of covert intelligence activities overseas, whose revelation would undermine U.S. intelligence.” is, in fact, erroneous when compared with the actual law.

Frankly, posting links to Novak’s columns is hardly impressive. What do you expect Novak to say? “Yes, I am a slime-ball for exposing the covert identity of a CIA agent.” Unlikely, to say the least.

I can see how Victoria Toensing could have misled you with, “Toensing testified that Plame was not a covert operative as defined by the Intelligence Identities Protection Act (which she had helped draft as a Senate staffer in 1982) if only because she was not stationed overseas for the CIA the past five years." However, as you can see from the segment of the law I posted above this is not what the actual law says.

In any case, the CIA refuses to admit (in regards to Plame’s upcoming book) that she was a CIA agent before 2002 but does confirm that she was overseas when she worked for them. Ergo, she must have fit within the five year rule.

You also find fault with the juror Denis Collins. Collin’s background was well known and reported on before the trial began. Frankly, I could not care less, but if you feel strongly about it, I suggest you write to Libby’s lawyer who approved the jury selection.

Finally, I believe you are also in error saying, "What's more, Fitzgerald's repeated and misleading references during the trial to Plame being "covert" or "classified" unfairly prejudiced the jury."

The judge ruled at the opening statement that evidence would not be given on Plame’s status. Although some evidence alluded to Plame’s status, it was introduced by witnesses and not by Fitzgerald. Perhaps you should read the transcript of the trial.

JeffandHack,

If Val was outed, where are the charges against those that outed her. Why hasn't Fitzgerald gone after the big tamale for outing her?
Could it be because he knows that she wasn't outed?

Please, just answer the friggin question

Jeff,

The big point here is, if Plame was actually covert, then why wasn't Libby convicted of it? He was convicted for mis-remembering.

Heck, if everyone was convicted for not recalling history correctly, like your terrorist-appeasing, yellow belly father, then we would all be in jail.

No one was convicted for outing Valerie Plame for being a covert agent because she was not. - that is what is so ludicrous about this.

You are welcome to believe what you want! Since the Director of the CIA explicitly stated that Plame was covert and you don’t believe it, I would be interested in knowing if you have any source for your opinion although I suspect that none is necessary for you. Again, Libby was not convicted for “mis-remembering” he was convicted of lying and obstruction of justice. Really. There are numerous sources for this. It was widely reported in the papers and may have even been on FOX News!

Fitzgerald explained to those interested in facts that the reason there were no indictments for blowing Plame’s cover was because Libby had lied and obstructed the investigation.

During closing arguments in the obstruction of justice and perjury trial of former vice presidential staffer, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Fitzgerald told jurors that "there is a cloud over the vice president. ... a cloud over the White House over what happened," according to a copy of the transcript of Fitzgerald's statements.

"We didn't put that cloud there," Fitzgerald said. "That cloud's there because the defendant obstructed justice. That cloud is something you just can't pretend isn't there."

Moreover, Fitzgerald told jurors that Libby, Cheney's former chief of staff, discussed aspects of the investigation with the vice president only when he was told by investigators not to talk about the probe, according to the transcript. Libby is "not supposed to be talking to other people," Fitzgerald said. But "the only person [Libby] told is the vice president. Think about that."

Fitzgerald reminded the jury that in October 2003, former White House press secretary Scott McClellan told reporters of the president's intentions during a morning news briefing at the White House.

"Any sane person would think, based on what McClellan said in October 2003, that anyone involved in this would be fired," Fitzgerald said, referring to the leak, according to the transcript of the prosecutor's remarks.

"This is not 'he said, she said,'" Fitzgerald said. "He [Libby] made up a story and he stuck to it. If Tim Russert were run over by a bus and had gone to the great news desk in the sky, you can still find plenty of evidence that the defendant lied."

Peter Zeidenberg, the deputy special prosecutor, told jurors earlier in the day Tuesday that Libby had "nine conversations about [Valerie Plame]. He remembers none of them. The one conversation he says he has, with Tim Russert, is a conversation we now know never happened."

Libby "lied to the FBI and the grand jury about how he learned about Joseph Wilson's wife, Valerie Wilson, who he talked to about Mr. Wilson's wife and what he said when he discussed Mr. Wilson's wife with others," Zeidenberg added, according to the court transcript.

Also, you wrote: “Heck, if everyone was convicted for not recalling history correctly, like your terrorist-appeasing, yellow belly father…”

Can you actually name a specific instance of my father not recalling history correctly?

"The Beav in Fantasy Land"

Just a few quotes from Alan Dershowitz, law professor at Harvard University & criminal defense lawyer of high-profile (i.e., RICH) clients, like OJ Simpson, Mike Tyson, Patty Hearst. He's also a big proponent of animal rights. Seems to be a correlation there - Mike Tyson convicted of a rape charge & disqualified for biting both of Evander Holyfield's ears, among other incidences.

Dershowitz commonly argues against censorship of pornography on First Amendment grounds and maintains that consumption of pornography is not harmful. "There is simply no justification for government censorship of offensive material of any kind." Even if pornography can be shown to lead to violence against women, Dershowitz opposes any controls on it.

http://www.answers.com/topic/alan-dershowitz-1

Well, you get the picture: LIBERAL EXTRAORDINAIRE!

"I like Jimmy Carter. I have known him since he began his run for president in early 1976. I worked hard for his election, and I have admired the work of the Carter Center throughout the world. That's why it troubles me so much that this decent man has written such an indecent book about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

"His bias against Israel shows by his selection of the book's title: Palestine: Peace not Apartheid."

"I don't know why Jimmy Carter, who is generally a careful man, allowed so many errors and omissions to blemish his book."

- Carter says that Jews have lived in Palestine since "Roman times," but they've been there since the time of Moses.

- "Carter blames Israel, and exonerates Arafat, for the Palestinian refusal to accept statehood on 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza....He accepts the Palestinian revisionist history, rejects the eye-witness accounts of President Clinton and Dennis Ross....The fact that Carter chooses to believe Yasir Arafat over Bill Clinton speaks volumes."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/the-world-according-to-ji_b_34702.html

"YOU CAN ALWAYS tell when a public figure has written an indefensible book: when he refuses to debate it in the court of public opinion. And you can always tell when he's a hypocrite to boot: when he says he wrote a book in order to stimulate a debate, and then he refuses to participate in any such debate. I'm talking about former president Jimmy Carter and his new book Palestine Peace Not Apartheid."

"Carter's book has been condemned as 'moronic' (Slate), 'anti-historical' (The Washington Post), 'laughable' (San Francisco Chronicle), and riddled with errors and bias in reviews across the country."

He remembers his term in office A LOT differently than others do.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/12/21/why_wont_carter_debate_his_book/

------------------------------------------------------

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Dershowitz! You’ve got to be kidding me! HAHAHA.

Like you, he claims a lot of things not supported by facts. Here are a few that you cut and pasted without knowing about:

"Carter blames Israel, and exonerates Arafat, for the Palestinian refusal to accept statehood on 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza…”

Read this article from the Simon Peres Center in Israel:

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:WqBienz8hPUJ:gush-shalom.org/archives/pundak.doc+%22oslo+to+taba%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

“He accepts the Palestinian revisionist history, rejects the eye-witness accounts of President Clinton and Dennis Ross.”

Read Dennis Ross’s book and cite a single quote where there is revisionist history!

“Carter chooses to believe Yasir Arafat over Bill Clinton…”

Cite a quote. Please. One quote.

“riddled with errors and bias…” Many have tried. Again, read the book and give me an actual error.

The book has been a fabulous success with over 500,000 copies printed so far. Buy one and read it, then get back to me.

Or, check it out on Amazon.com and read the discussions there. I believe that you’ll find even more accusations of error and their factual rebuttals. DO some howework instead of just cut and paste.

Dershowitz! That’s rich!

If you want to know about Dershowitz go to www.normanfinkelstein.com.

Alan Dershowitz! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dershowitz strikes a nerve there huh Jeff? Traits of anti-Semitism creeping through the DNA?

I think Denise and the Beav deserve and answer.

Why didn't Fitzgerald indict anyone for "outing" Plame?

The newest Republican on the web-
Enigma

Dershowitz doesn't strike a nerve at all. He's a nut! Here, read this article by Norman Finkelstein about him and the book. Finkelstein's parents and grandparents were kill at Auswitz, hardly somebody you can accuse of anti-Semitism:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=788

Also, I hope you realize that I didn't prosecute Libby, Fitzgerald did. Fitzgerald explained that the reason there were no indictments for blowing Plame’s cover was because Libby had lied and obstructed the investigation.

For further comments, you can see my entry in this blog: "The Beav in Fantasy Land"

Personally, I am disappointed that Libby obstructed the investigation to the extent that Fitzgerald could not prosecute anyone. It is despicable that a covert CIA agent was outed for political reasons. The only good thing about it for me personally is watching Republicans like yourself having to contort their principles to justify this treasonous crime. I have found it absolutely amazing! I can only sit in awe and wonder what y'all would be saying if Clinton had done it. It would be the end of the world! Instead, its "support the party" no matter what. No matter if the interest of the United States of America are harmed. No matter if Plame's contacts get killed in retribution. No matter if what Joe Wilson reported turned out to be true. No matter what, support the party! Amazing!

I see you are he newest Republican on the web. What tipped you to the Republicans? Was it the outing of Plame? The Massive deficits? The Republicans support for torture? The invasion of Iraq under false pretenses? Dismantling habeus corpus? Dick Cheney shooting somebody? Xenu? The firing of the prosecutors? Gitmo? I'm curious...

Sorry, but I could not possibly read everything about every subject.

Just thought that Dershowitz's comments deserved to be posted for others' consideration. Since he's not the dreaded FOX NEWS (gasp!), others might be willing to read his columns.

I'm sure I could find A LOT more criticisms of your dad, but these will have to do.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Denise has mentioned more than once that she hasn't "had time" to get all of the facts or read up on these issues. She is a cut and paste winch doing the demon's work for the RNC. I have written her and the beaver off. They are not interested in truth. Perjury is now "misremembering." Shooting your hunting partner, as you recall, was the hunting partner's fault. Standing in front of the VP's rounds they would phrase it. They care not of the damage done within our intelligence community, within the DOJ, and with our operators currently abroad. They simply serve as the RNC p!ss boy and girl, doing the dirty work, devoid of a conscience; for a conscience would cause one to pause and consider why a VP would respond so unusually to a news paper op ed. Write these lunatics off, Jeff. They are attempting to draw you into their cesspool. I'm separating from these wack jobs. Please cut the cord and join with those seeking actual truth, understanding, and or enlightenment.
Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

ps. This Denise winch will really be p.o. ed when she hears what her Republican appointed supreme court ruled on global warming and CO2 emmissions today. But she will without doubt declare the Supreme Court's 5-4 decision invalid. Oye oye oye!

AF A-10 Hack: “I have written her and the beaver off.”

“I'm separating from these wack jobs. Please cut the cord.”

Separation, wasn’t that tried before – separate restrooms, water fountains, etc.? You sound like you don’t want me at the back of the bus; you don’t me on the bus at all.

Do you think that you are one of the elite, “enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status,” while I and other conservatives are just peasants?

Is that why you urge JeffC to “join with those seeking actual truth, understanding, and-or enlightenment”? Are Democrats the exclusive possessors of truth, while Republicans are “not interested in truth” and “those who do not wish the light of truth to shine upon them,” “lunatics” living a “cesspool”?

You tell JeffC not to "spend too much time figuring out how to save those who do not wish the light of truth to shine upon them." Sounds like a Saviour complex -- "The person who is said to have a 'god complex' can act so arrogantly that he might as well believe he is a god or appointed to act by a god."

Sounding a little obsessed there! Perhaps the term paranoia would be more medically accurate.

Paranoia: “A psychotic disorder that is characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason, and extreme, irrational distrust of others. Commonly associated with these core persecutory beliefs are properties of suspiciousness, fearfulness, hostility, hypersensitivity, rigidity of conviction, and an exaggerated sense of self-reference.”

“That's why I chuckle when I see bloggers stereo type [sic] my kind.” I have the same response when I read your comments!

I don’t consider debate a waste of time. That is why I continue putting forth another point of view here.

Do you know what a bigot actually is, or is it just one of those handy words that you use about anyone with whom you disagree?

A bigot is “one who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.”

“A ‘bigot’ (person with intolerant prejudices) can ‘beget’ (cause) anger.”

__________

The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye: The more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract. – Oliver Wendell Holmes

__________

"I've never been more proud to be a registered democrat [sic].”

Exactly what do you mean by “registered” Democrat? You can be a registered voter here in Georgia, but there’s no party allegiance confession required, just legal citizenship, although that is all too often not enforced.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

I can read it in your words. You let me get into your brain. I angered and irritated you a wee bit. Before long, I'll apologize for using the winch (wench) term. You will ease up on the former president. And one day, you will invite me to the Atlanta Bread Company to tutor me on spelling and diction. That's how it always starts Denise. One day you're bitter adversaries, the next day we're the next town scandle. I will absolutely admit that I like the fight that dwells within you. I do hope you stay on this bus for the long haul. I'll play nice.

Kevin "Hack" King

ps: I have been asked my poliical affiliation in many of the 5 states I've voted in.

Hey, Hack...is this from 3 Days of the Condor? I love that movie.

& is it Dennis or Denise we are dealing with? I don't want you to git in a don't ask, don't tell moment.

& Doctor of just what? Doctor Who was a doctor and so was Doctor Seuess (but I think he was a real doctor).

I really, really, really hope that this is "Denise" in the traditional spelling sense. I would hate to misread a map and end up on Brokeback Mtn by mistake.

Kevin "Hack" King

You can read my comments on Basmati's blog about Christianists & Andrew Sullivan.

They might help you not to "end up on Brokeback Mtn by mistake."

I'm not Dennis, but I've often heard that imitation is the best form of flattery.

Good to see that you're working on your spelling. You won't need my help

At least I’m HONEST enough to say that I don’t have time to read everything about every subject. I do have a life besides politics; it’s not an obsession with me. I try not to be a know-it-all; I just present information for discussion. There are 2 sides to a debate, if I’m not mistaken (which I try very hard not to be).

“Cut and paste” – I thought that’s one of the best features of a computer!

At least I give sources for my comments. I don’t act like I am the source of all knowledge. BTW, just what is your source for the Libby trial – Rosie O’Donnell?

Back to your "time and intellect" – You should spend more time with the dictionary to improve your spelling and vocabulary. “Winch” is a machine used for hoisting or hauling. I’m human just like you, red blood and all.

I suppose that you meant the word “wench,” meaning a young woman, or girl, especially a peasant girl, who’s a servant (often in a tavern) and has questionable character (a woman of ill repute). It was often used to refer to a colored woman, questionable character or not (called in popular music a “‘ho”). The verb form means “to consort or engage in sex with wanton women,” "to frequent prostitutes.”

(1) “A young woman, or girl” – Thanks for the compliment (although unintended, I’m sure).

(2) “Especially a peasant girl” (peasant is a pejorative term for impoverished farmers) – There’s nothing rural about me. I’m not a sharecropper, nor am I descended from sharecroppers, thinking back 3 generations.

I’m not a rustic peasant (“lacking refinement or elegance”), in case you haven’t noticed. I’m quite well educated and continue becoming better educated. I’ve attended the theatre (Shakespeare plays are excellent), operas, ballets, art museums; so, I do have more “culture” than daytime TV.

For the classical usage of the word, see the Shepherd lament in Shakespeare’s The Winter's Tale, “I would there were no age between ten and three-and-twenty, or that youth would sleep out the rest, for there is nothing in the between but getting wenches with child, wronging the ancientry, stealing, fighting” (3.3.59).

(3) “An uncouth, crude, or ill-bred person,” “lacking refinement or cultivation or taste,” “coarse” (“of low, common, or inferior quality,” “vulgar or indecent”).

I’ve not used phrases such as “p!ss boy and girl” & “p.o. ed,” nor have I called you “lunatic,” “demon,” “wack job,” “loon,” “enslaved,” “mindless,” “ignorant” (meaning “lacking education or knowledge” – not me at all!), “knee jerk,” “bigot.”

I may be blunt at times (“often disconcertingly frank in speech” and “without subtlety or evasion” but almost never “dull, slow to understand or perceive”), perceived by touchy-feely types as “insensitive” (not politically correct, prone to apologies for my own existence).

(4) “A woman servant” – Is that why you called me “enslaved”? Should I ask for reparations?

For those with a sense of humor, read Dick Yarbrough’s 3-24-07 column, “Sorry, I don’t get all the apologies.”

gainesvilletimes.com/news/stories/20070324/opinion/163474.shtml

http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=36&url_article_id=26084&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2

I don’t work in a tavern either – Falstaff: “And is not my hostess of the tavern a most sweet wench?” (Henry IV, Part 1, I, xxiii).

(4) “A wanton woman,” “a vulgar promiscuous woman who flouts propriety,” a slut, to put it in more common language – Is that why you say that I’m “devoid of a conscience”?

You’re right; you’re “not very nice” at all. I’m glad that you “don't normally speak so harshly to bloggers,” or someone might think that you’re uncouth.

___________________________________________________________________________________

“After three days men grow weary, of a wench, a guest, and weather rainy.” – Benjamin Franklin

___________________________________________________________________________________

Shakespeare deftly compares the sun to “a fair hot wench in flame-coloured taffeta” (King John, IV, ii).

I hadn't read all this before....Debby is this you? I miss you alot.

I miss us talkin' about that Coulter woman. Denise...hit me up. I love it when you talk dirty.

Couldn't tell it from the above, Denise. Go back and check my previous posts. You'll find many misspelled words. Feel free to correct them. And Denise, my sincerest of apologies to.....

winches. How dare I mistake them for you! But I suppose I'll stop slinging mud when you get off of the "peanut farmer."

Cheers bella,

Kevin "Hack" King

Honest, Denise. I am really, really nice. Not like Fox is Fair and Balanced. I mean really nice. More than Ann Coulter nice. Change your tire for you on the interstate nice. Hold a door for you even if you have an "I'm Doctor Denise Conner" name tag on nice.....

My life is literature, among other passions. That's why I can't know all of the minute details about every political debate.

I confess that the term "President Peanut" came from Dick Yarbrough. He's really quite humorous.

Fox, Fair & Balanced -- You can watch Hannity & Colmes -- half of the show gives liberals their say.

I even saw John Kerry & Teresa Heinz's interview with Bill O'Reilly online (didn't have time to watch the whole program).

Well, there's that word TIME again. Back to work.

Glad to know that you're "really, really nice," "change your tire for you on the interstate nice." I believe you. You might find me nice. I'm not a wicked witch, even if I'm conservative.

(blushing)

Kevin "Hack" King

She's listed as a new blogger. We should encourage her. She states everything she just "knows" so forcefully as fact! Its refreshing to have new opinions even if they have no idea why they arrived at them. Citing Alan Dershowitz was RICH!!! I have to admit though that it did tip me off. A true connoisseur of Carter venom would have gone to the CAMERA web site to cut and paste some of their stuff. Really Denise, if you read this and care to respond in the future, you should do your own homework and know or semi-know what you're for or against (and why) to the point of defending it beyond one post. Sometimes, using facts will help, especially if they are on your side. Study Richard Hobbs blogs. I'll respond nicely to almost anything no matter how scurrilous or slanderous the accusation (see my response to thebeaver) but you've got to be able to hold up your end of the argument or its disappointing.

By the way Hack, it has recently come to my attention that your skin doesn't reflect as much light as mine does. Can this be true? Do I now have to re-examine my opinion of your opinions and therefore question my opinions of your opinions which I previously agreed with until this information came to light (no pun intended)? Do I rate a Klanpoint(tm) just for asking? It'll be my first! Bro! We need to party to celebrate!

The absolute calm and patience you display with loons such as these who are really just looking to score points against your dad is amazing. I don't normally speak so harshly to bloggers, but when I think of a completely enslaved, mindless errand runner, winch comes to mind. Not very nice, not politically correct, but I will learn to live with myself. And yes, I have been to several Tuskeegee Airman and OBAP conventions. That's why I chuckle when I see bloggers stereo type my kind as welfare recipients and/or criminals. But I've spent 22 years now, fighting for the free speech of biggots and the ignorant, along with my own (I'm sure some here will say I fit in all of these categories ). Have a great night, but con't spend too much time figuring out how to save those who do not wish the light of truth to shine upon them.

Cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

You got right to the heart of the argument!

"Terrorist-appeasing" - Describes ex-Pres Carter then and now.

"Perhaps you should read the transcript of the trial." -- Just don't have the time since I'm not retired and work long hours. From what I know of trials, each side puts on "spin." But one side is more right than the other, and the side with the best LAWYERS (master spinners = liars?) wins. I do remember some about the OJ trial!

Libby was not charged with "outing" Plame, just remembering differently than Russert. Again the OJ jury analogy - it's easy to be enamored with a "celebrity" & a beautiful (according to some) woman. (That horrible man is being mean to her!) I don't find it hard to see why the jury believed Russert, who's job depends on a silver tongue, over Libby.

The July 2005 Vanity Fair "Double Exposure" photo of Plame is cute, though - such a girlish grin. Doesn't seem at all worried about keeping her identity secret. But the photo of her in the convertible wearing the head scarf and sunglasses is a nice touch - 007 Val.

Let's see, if I know her husband's identity, then I can find her. She must not be too worried about her safety - guess publicity trumps "personal security." What about a book deal & a Hollywood movie? Then she'd really be 007 Val.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2091907/

http://www.slate.com/id/2122069/

Of course, her non-political (HA!) husband has cashed in on his wife's being in the media spotlight with a book, and all of those interviews were probably quite lucrative. $$$$

They don't seem to have suffered too much to me & have been well compensated for their "inconvenience."

Just another attempt to bring down the Bush Administration - Now, that's not political, is it?

The whole trial seems "Much Ado About Nothing."

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Yes, I know very well what Libby was charged with and contrary to your claim that he was charged for remembering differently than Russert, he was actually charged with:

Count 1: Obstruction of Justice (18 U.S.C. § 1503)
Counts 2-3: False Statements (18 U.S.C. § 1001(a)(2))
Counts 4-5: Perjury (18 U.S.C. § 1623)

Besides Russert, New York Times reporter Judith Miller, testified that Libby told her in a confidential conversation on June 23, 2003, that the wife of a prominent critic of the Iraq war worked at the CIA. Libby had told investigators he believed he first learned that information from another journalist nearly three weeks later.

Former White House spokesman Ari Fleischer testified Monday that Lewis "Scooter" Libby told him about a CIA operative three days before the date Libby claims he received the information from a reporter

Cathie Martin, then the top press aide to Cheney, who now is an aide to Bush, testified that she had been asked to do something she was not comfortable with; to potentially reveal to reporters classified information intended to help defend the claim that Iraq was trying to acquire nuclear material.

Walter Pincus and Glenn Kessler of the Washington Post also testified that Libby, among others, revealed Plame’s name to them before Libby swore he knew her identity.

Also, Plame’s photo in Vanity Fair and her marriage to Joe Wilson is in no way relevant to whether she was a covert CIA agent. She was not trying to keep her identity secret, she was posing as an international energy expert. She was trying to keep the fact that she was a covert CIA agent secret.

Also whether the Wilson’s have suffered or not is beside the point. The question now is whether any of Plame’s contacts have been the focus of any type of retribution. There has been at least one CIA investigation into this, the results of which are classified. One day it will probably be released and we can assess the true damage caused by the exposure of Plame for purely political reasons.

Your reference to “Much Ado About Nothing” was extremely apt! Especially since the whole play was about lies and slander and Don John is arrested and punished for his deceit. A marvelous reference!

Finally, we all work hard here with the possible exception of Robert Morgan who, as you may or may not know, is a ghost.

"One day it will probably be released" - You're right. Unless the conviction's overturned on appeal, Libby was convicted. But there are numerous other instances where convictions are later found to be totally wrong. We'll have to wait for historical perspective to sort all of this out & give OBJECTIVITY to it.

"Obstruction of Justice" - That can be used as a political tool. The media & Democrats (redundant, I know) have been trying to get Karl Rove's head on a platter for years, & they thought that they finally had succeeded. Guess they'll keep on trying.

"False Statements" - One man's "False Statements" is another's "poor memory." Libby should've claimed the Fifth because anything that someone says can be twisted by lawyers & political zealots. I've seen that done all too often by lawyers.

Prime example - Bill Clinton's "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." Typical sleazy lawyer!

What about the "true damage" "for purely political reasons" that this media hype has caused when terrorists are plotting to blow us up?

PERSPECTIVE is what's needed.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

I'll match your sources to Jeff C's sources and let's see who sounds more credible. And for the sake of this credibility game, we will exclude the fact that SCOOTER LIBBY WAS FOUND GUILTY OF FOUR COUNTS BY A GRAND JURY. Okay, Ready??

Thomas Sowell, conservative Editorialist

vs

CIA Directorate of Operations

Fox News lawyer, ohhh, I mean "super-lawyer" (not to be confused with a normal earth-bound lawyer)

vs

DC Court of Appeals Judge David Tatel

and finally, good ole' Robert Novak

vs

Official court transcripts and statements by the CIA Director.

Denise, you knee jerk defend-the-criminal if he's conservative people need to start bringing more than pixie sticks to a gun fight. Your arguments are pathetic, as judged by referencing the station that spent more time on Anna Nicole Smith than Patriot Act abuses, problems at the DOJ, and Scooter Libby's trial combined. I bet you can tell me what was in Anna's fridge though, can't ya?

Kevin "Hack" King

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

You seem to be more the type to be interested in Anna Nicole Smith - former "Playmate," "exotic" dancer, and sleep-with-anyone druggie.

Gosh guys, I know how ugly Democrat women usually are but some of you are married men.

Leave these good looking, intelligent, Republican women to the men who can appreciate and share their views with them ... the single men I mean!

From what I vaguely recall, the CIA Director would not answer whether Plame was covert. Seems to me that he has political bias; I might find time to confirm this some time later.

I do know that, according to the law, Plame was not covert. I did hear some of the testimony before Congress of the one who wrote the law (Victoria Toensing sp?), & I think that she knows a lot more than you or I or Jeff Carter, son of President Peanut.

One word -- the OJ jury -- Juries do make mistakes!

Again you make two points, both of which are unsupported by facts. Please refer to my previous post above where I post a statement from the CIA Director explicitly stating Plame's cover status. In the same piece, I have cited for you the actual law which you can see is different from what Ms. Toensing says it is.

Sometimes facts matter.

You will most likely go to your grave having proudly and boldly supported political operatives over Intelligence agents of this great nation. You will have stood up for those who have lied before congress and court, while comparing their situation to the OJ trial. Your legacy, much like Alberto Gonzales', will be to have besmirched our system of laws and government in order to try to rationalize criminal behavior. And Mr. luffa himself, Bill Oreally, will convince you that you have helped better the country you live in. And Denise, I will go to my grave wishing you had put law and order and open honest government above political allegiance.

Kevin "Hack" King

"law and order and open honest government above political allegiance"

Let's see, Ted Kennedy left a girl to drown in his car.

William Jefferson is the subject of a corruption probe (which doesn't seem too "probing" to me since he's still in Congress). Jefferson was videotaped by the FBI receiving $100,000 worth of $100 bills, $90,000 of which was found in his freezer!

Harry Reid's land swap deal - made $1.1 million on land bought for $400,000 - smells fishy to me. His lack of disclosure violated Senate rules, but he's the boss, so the rules don't apply.

Then there's the Liar-in-Chief, Bill Clinton. "I did NOT have sex with THAT woman!"

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

"This is way beyond slick. Perhaps we should start calling him, "Existential Willie." --Timothy Noah

http://www.slate.com/id/1000162/

The difference between Republicans & Democrats is that Republicans go to jail or are voted out of office (Mark Foley, for example - BTW, that story went away quickly, didn't it?). Republicans don't seem to have "GET OUT OF JAIL" cards, but then I wouldn't want them to.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Everyone on this planet, with the exception of you it seems, heard Plame testify under oath that she was covert. The Washington Post wrote

"Plame's testimony on the covert nature of her job was buttressed by a statement that Waxman read at the hearing's opening which, he said, was approved by Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the CIA's director. The statement said that Plame worked in a covert capacity at the time of Novak's column and that her employment status was classified under an executive order."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/16/AR2007031600276.html

Spin that, Denise.
________________________________________________________
Get your Klanpoints™ today!

Duh. I WAS 9lbs. By the way, what IS the meaning of the word IS?

Read this if you want the TRUTH

Hi Enigma! The CIA declassified information today that indicated that, contrary to your and that Lyin' sack of Christianist disinformation Denise's allegations, Valerie Plame had "covert" agent status at the time that Robert Novak leaked her name in July 2003.

Plame was ‘covert’ agent at time of name leak
Newly released unclassified document details CIA employment

Care to admit now that I was right?

(I won't bother to ask that of Denise Coulter becoz I know she has a speshul dispensation to lie in Republican Jesus' name, like all "good" Christianists do).

"Everyone on this planet" - impossible! Another of your gross exaggerations.

You're right - I didn't hear her testimony. I was working & I work long hours; I'm not retired like you. I don't have time to watch much TV.

The Washington Post - I'm sure that source is always reliable.

"Spin" - Do you watch Bill O'Reilly? You might actually learn something.

If she were covert, where are the charges?

There aren't any because the law was NOT broken.

I can see I'm going to have to be very exact in my discussions with you, Denise. You are of course correct, I should not have said "everyone on this planet", a more exact phrase would have been "anyone with a lick of sense" which of course excludes you and your blood relations.

You claim not to have heard her testimony but it didn't stop you from issuing an opinion on what you thought transpired! I'm not retired either, by the way.

I'm glad you agree with me that the Washington Post is a reliable source....much better as far as "truthiness" goes compared to the usual townhall.com dreck you are fond of foisting upon us.

I don't watch Bill O'Reilly, either, for obvious reasons.

Now, you asked about the charges. I'm going to explain this very simplistically so you can understand this:

Revealing classified information in a time of war is treason.

President Pissypants permitted his minions to de-classify Plame's name, compromising an intelligence operation, because he made the executive decision (which he has every right to do as President) that smearing a political opponent was more important than keeping this country safe.

Had he been a man and admitted this all along, no charges would have been brought at all. However, the Bush administration miscalculated and thought they could get away with lying under oath (committing perjury) to cover up their political manueverings.

They were wrong, and that is why Libby was convicted of perjury.

Spin that, Denise!

________________________________________________________
Get your Klanpoints™ today!

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Basmati: "I'm going to explain this very simplistically so you can understand this."

I can understand almost everything quite well, especially your lack of logic and proneness to gross exaggeration and flights of fancy.

Basmati: "I'm not retired either." Thought that might explain your lack of mental clarity - early dementia. Or did you mean to type "retarded"? (Not a medical diagnosis at this time, & by the way, there's no vaccine for extreme liberalism.)

What's so "classified" about a desk job?

Also, I merely listed resources for anyone to read for a better understanding of the situation. Your lack of knowledge and common sense doesn't stop you from giving your opinion on about everything!

Basmati: "President Pissypants" - Your mind is in the gutter again. Seems to stay there a lot.

She also refused to answer if she was "under cover" in the last 5 years which is the only way all the accusations of outing an undercover operative would have any traction. She refused to answer. Why? If the answer was yes she would be saying yes for sure, but a no answer ends the charade. If she said yes and the answer was no - perjury.

Again, it is not illegal to "out" a covert employee. It is illegal to "out" an undercover operative, if one has been one overseas during the last 6 years and the person doing the outing knew that. That's the actual law.

All this hysteria relies upon the average reader not knowing the simple difference in what is illegal and what sounds bad. You'll notice Jeff and all the other liberals never address that issue - instead they change the subject to a Republican's marital status or something.

I guess you should have been the Scoot's atty.

The sinple hysteria was that the Scrub's Administration tried to punish a man who was telling the truth about their MISS-leading US into a WAR.

GAWD, if this had happened during Clinton there would be an Impeachment Hearing.
When Clinton lied...No One Died.

Please, I beg of you! Think about this for just a moment. Out of the people involved in this story: Valerie Plame, Scooter Libby, the POTUS, the VP, Richard Armitage, and Karl Rove, which has risked their life in service to this nation? Which of these people traveled abroad at any point in their lives in a clandestine role serving their country? Now, please hear....um, read me out.

Why try to minimize the freindly fire Valerie Plame received? Why feel no need to offer this patriot an apology? Why do you back a man who was brave enough to find five ways out of Vietnam, while trying to minimize the importance of the woman he targeted? Why should anyone sign up to risk their life for this country, knowing that they may one day be attacked by those they try to serve. Your allegience is very confusing to me.

Kevin "Hack" King

One of the worst things wrong with an all voluntary army (except for the guard and reserves who didn't sign up for three years in a foreign war)is that people who choose politics, and other leach like jobs, almost never go to war and therefore end up as people who make the decisions as to what the ones who do go, do!
Of all the decision makers in this current administration, the only one who served any useful time in the military was Rumsfeld, who was contaminated by Washington politics from years of kissing behinds.
Valerie Plame, who happened to be married to a guy who happened to be honest, got the blame for her husband insisting on telling the truth about the "yellow cake from Africa," that Bush stood up in front of congress and the American people and lied about. It was probably a plausible denial lie, but a lie never the less.
This embarrassed the rest of the Bushies so badly that they decided to "declassify" her and hope someone knocked her and her husband off.
These people are elected to work for us and sometimes, like Nixon and Reagan did, they forget that. I'm beginning to think that high level republicans are evil!

When a CIA agent is once assigned as "covert," and Plame was, they are "always" covert. This must be to keep enemies fromtaking revenge for something the agent did years before.
Why do you think the law puts people into the protective new name categories?
The hoped she would be killed!

If she were covert, where are the charges?

There aren't any because the law was NOT broken.

You are too anxious for charges. They are coming. Got one already---scooter.

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

How about Sandy "Classified-Documents-Just-Happened-to-Fall-in-My-Britches-and-Magically-Appear-in-a-Construction-Site" Burglar? You'd think that a former National Security Adviser would know not to STEAL and DESTROY classified documents from the National Archives. Must've thought he was trying out for a part in the next National Treasure.

Or William "$100,000-in-Cold-Hard-Cash-in-the-Freezer" Jefferson?

Or Harry "Land-Swindles-R-Us" Reid?

Or John "Hmm-Offer-Me-a-Bigger-Bribe-and-I'll-Be-Interested" Murtha? Negotiating bribes with Arab sheiks seems worthy of a few years in jail.

Or Loretta "Voter-Fraud-What-Voter-Fraud?" Sanchez?

Then, of course, there's Ted "Hiccup-hiccup-hiccup-What bridge?-What car?-What girl?" Kennedy and that midnight swim where the pretty girl was left trapped in a car that went off a bridge because the drunk couldn't drive but he could swim. Remind me never to go anywhere with this murderer!

His relative Patrick "Acting-Just-Like-the-Older-and-MUCH-Fatter-Kennedy-Who-Drives-While-Drunk" Kennedy can't seem to drive either or stay away from impairing substances.

Cynthia "Don't-Mess-with-Me-Cause-I'm-BLACK!" (Do I get Klanpoints for that one?) McKinney wiggled out of a conviction for slapping a police officer, too. I see a trend here.

Yep, Dems win first prize for criminal activity and staying out of jail.

"There are a lot of bad Republicans; there are no good Democrats."
Ann Coulter

Well, maybe 1 or 2???

This shot gun approach of yours is a good way to bow out of a losing argument. Bring up all you can find on the "internets" about the other guys, when unable to defend your guys. I won't capitulate in kind because the list would be quite long,, but not on point. Please read my summary above. It, I believe, is an accurate accounting of what you have become.

Kevin "Hack" King

"Changing the subject when cornered" is quite typical of her type. Ditto "'quantity of argument' is equal to or greater than 'quality of argument'"

I suspect the "demons of stupidity" that she constantly complains about infesting her soul pale in comparison to some of the other far nastier demons who influence her diatribes here.

________________________________________________________
Get your Klanpoints™ today!

Basmati, just what is "my type"?

Wouldn't you like to know!

We've already discussed anal sex & STDs elsewhere. Not exactly dinner table conversation.

"Changing the subject when cornered" - Just how did I?

"the 'demons of stupidity' that she constantly complains about infesting her soul" - The "demons" "infest" those who are STUPID, definitely not me.

It's nice to see that you're trying to improve yourself, Bas. You sound a little more educated in your replies. Keep trying!

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!

Bas, I'm amazed that "some people" no longer require the people paid by their tax dollars to be honest with all of their dealings. I am not sure why we don't jealously guard the identities of agents who have served and are serving this nation. I can't quite figure out what became of the "rule of law." And I truly can't fathom anyone seeking credibility quoting Ann Coulter. But I guess it's better than having to face the realities of our search for Bin Laden, quest to balance the budget, or lack of moral superiority within the self-proclaimed moral majority. I've never been more proud to be a registered democrat.

Kevin "Hack" King

I've not followed this issue very closely as to date. I'm waiting for more facts to come out rather than a bunch of political spin.

I can't help but wonder though. What's surprising about dumping attorneys that are working contrary to an administrations agenda? I thought the precedent was set by former presidents regarding this very issue. Weren't some of these guys a bunch of Clinton leftovers? Seems to me that if you keep leftovers around to long they start getting rotten.

I'm sure that sounds a bit naive but I have to question the apparent double standard. Well...I'll start checking it out and getting edumacated on this subject.

It is not about firing federal lawyers, it is about lieing to congress about it.
If they had just said, "we fired them because we wanted to make a change," there would have been no problem.
They didn't do that however, the said they were fired for performance, yet none of them had underperformed and there were letters and other evidence to support that. Also these lawyers were prosecuting republicans (Cunningham) for malfeasance, causing a loss of an election for the republicans, and they even had Senators and Congressmen call the fired lawyer at his home complaining about various prosecutions: primarily democrats he hadn't prosecuted---evidence or no!
They knew they had done it wrong and tried to lie out of it. Criminals often don't take the right way out, just be devious.
Same as the way they started the Iraqi war.
Folks, we have another Nixon.

Point of order: It appears Tony Blair has read our postings with respect to Iran and is preparing for the "next phase" of "negotiations." As my favorite Brit says, "Yeahh Baby!"

Off of the subject, my prayers go out to Tony Snow, Elizabeth Edwards, and their kids and families as they fight one of life's most difficult battles.

With the US attorneys, there are three very significant, unprecedented occurances.

1. These were ALL Bush 43 republican appointees. Previous presidents fired the outgoing admin's lawyers. The 90+ that Clinton let go were Bush 41 appointees.

2. More than one of these attorneys were called and questioned by republican legislators about investigations involving democrats. In one case, the Republican attorney found no evidence of democratic voter fraud in New Mexico and could issue no indictments. A republican legislator called this attorney and indicated this was "very disappointing" and hung up on this attorney. He was later fired.

3. attorney General Gonzales has given four conflicting statements as to the role of the white house and politics in these firings. Gonzales' aid has taken the 5th indicating she does not want to incriminate herself by testifying to Congress.

And none of this even touches on the recently reported abuses of the Patriot Act by the FBI. That is another growing monsoon. Believe me when I say this all troubles me. I don't want political fodder for democrats in '08. I want a government that functions by the rule of law and FOR THE PEOPLE right now, today. I want conservative values of small, limited government to return to DC, sooner rather than later. And, on the record, I think 6 weddings between a President and First lady are 4 too many.

Kevin "Hack" King