Starting salary could produce PTC cop shortage

Tue, 03/06/2007 - 6:01pm
By: The Citizen

Peachtree City Police Chief James Murray told the City Council last weekend that he’s having a hard time drumming up new recruits to fill open officer positions.

The department targets college-educated officers and goes to career fairs in an attempt to attract qualified recruits. But Murray said the better pay offered by other agencies pulls away the best candidates.

“We’re not getting the quality in applicants that I think you want as a police officer in Peachtree City,” Murray said. “... We’re getting the short-order cook with a GED, and I don’t think you want those applicants here.”

The chief argues that other agencies offer better pay, which is the main concern for most young people getting out of college today.

A rookie officer with a college degree can expect to start at $34,000 a year in Peachtree City after going through the 10-week state-mandated certification course, Murray said. But some police agencies are offering $41,000 a year, and that’s what today’s young officers are placing as a higher priority.

Also, some officer candidates are turned off by the fact they can’t afford to live in Peachtree City because of the high cost of apartments here, Murray said.

“The bottom line is you need to pay more money,” Murray told The Citizen Tuesday morning.

In the past six months Peachtree City has lost three of its lieutenants and is currently short eight officers, although a new hire is due to start in April and a re-hired officer will start in March, and two more rookies may start training in July, Murray said.

Councilman Stuart Kourajian told Murray that losing well-trained officers “is a testament to you and the training that you provide.”

Murray also is aware of several current officers who plan to leave in the near future, which may put the department back in the position it’s in now, he said Tuesday. Last year the City Council authorized three additional officer positions in the budget starting in January of this year.

The shortage of officers has had a direct impact on the city’s budget, as court fines are down significantly from initial projections, said City Finance Director Paul Salvatore.

Murray told The Citizen Tuesday that even if he found seven qualified rookie recruits at one time, he couldn’t start them all immediately because he doesn’t have enough field training officers. New recruits ride along with field training officers for a length of time after graduating police academy before they begin patrolling on their own, Murray said.

Using college grads for recruits helps in many ways, and in large part because of the level of education of Peachtree City residents.

login to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Dalton Russell's picture
Submitted by Dalton Russell on Sun, 03/11/2007 - 1:23pm.

For those of you who have never been affected by a crime I must say that it's an eyeopener. Your view of the world around you changes dramatically. You thoughts twist in your mind and th sweat run cold down your temple. You stare, eyes glazed over, at the person speaking with you as you try to make out the words they ever so carefully, ever so delicately, utter to you. Yet you can't comprehend the sounds and noises. Their words sound as if they're speaking through a balloon, a hollow echo penetrating your ears. Then the recognition hits and you absord what you're being told. You wife, husband, father, mother, sister, brother, friend, or lover has just died or been in an accident or been hurt or raped or any other horrific thought that could ever cross your mind. No offense but this is not something I want just anyone to tell me. I want someone with compassion. Someone that will talk of my loved one as a person and not a thing. I want someone professional enough to wait for the initial shock to subside and wait with me for a moment until I can collect myself. I think all would want that. Someone that cares and has some concern for me as a person at that moment.

You all come on this site and banter and bicker back and forth. You come here and talk in circles about the same things, with the same goals, but with a different path to get there. The first step in solving any problem is to know where to end before you ever begin. I think you all know this, at least you appear to have a good notion of where you want to go. Now is the time to plan the trip, the rest stops, and refueling points. Now you have to decide on the driver for this trip.

Let's say you step into the local convenience store and immediately have a gun pointed in your face. There won't be a lot of help at this point if you've been calculating the numbers as I have. Most of the police officers don't live in the city. This includes officers from other agencies as well as those that work here in the city. This also reduces the amount of public safety that are here on their off time. Someone questioned the need for having an officer live in the city that they patrol in. Well, if the police officer lived in my city I would tend to think that they would have a more vested interest in the community rather than trying to work their shift and go home to some other city. They might take a moment longer to look at something that would end up protecting me or mine. Instead that moment is not there because they are not there. They're on their way home to Coweta County where they can afford to live.

It's been roughly figured that the police department has 60 officers, that may be a little off so let's go with a midpoint. If the police department has 48 officers, figuring the last estimate I heard was 55 and there are eight positions open and let's give the benefit of the doubt and go with 48 instead of 47, let's figure out the numbers. From top to bottom:

=48 Total (best guess, but probably lower)
-30 Patrol (average 10 officers per shift, including supervisors and again it's probably lower than this.)
- 4 Detectives (overloaded with cases)
- 3 SRO/DARE (Booth, MHS, DARE) (overworked with school duties as well)
- 7 Admin (Chief, Upper Management, others)
= 4
- 8 Vacancies:
=-4 (already in the negative for what the city should have)
- 3 Losses Anticipated (low side guesstimate)
=-7 (even worse situation in a short while)

This is just a rough calcutlation. If someone could provide more accurate numbers that would be great. I just want people to look at what anyone can figure in their head but fail to do most of the time.

There was a comment I heard at one time that the ideal citizen to road officer ratio was 1,000:1. Something tells me that this that we're not quite there. If the population is 42,000 and we have around, hopefully, 30 officers on the road to protect us then we're already in the red by 12 officers. Not to mention that the influx of out-of-city traffic almost doubles, again a guesstimate, our population on a daily basis. What would you say if I told you that I've heard that the number of officers on the road were 3 at times recently because of injuries and illnesses? 3 officers for the entire city. Chew on that one for a while. I don't mean for one day, I mean for a week or so. Think about that as you sit in your bubble.

If this is the case regarding the number of officers you are trying to work toward then please do more research than I did, memory mostly after speaking with different people, and get started. It's easy to sit idly by and discuss, debate, bicker, banter, argue, snicker, curse, shout, holler, scream, or just be an annoyance. It takes more initiative to get up and move into a position to make a change. Remember these words when you talk with your friends. Remember them before you close your eyes at night in relative safety because there are enough officers out there to protect you from the criminals, or so we're told. Remember this while you bicker, banter, and argue instead of acting. And also remeber that the criminals are coming here for easy pickings. There are bad people here, but they are not confined to one exclusive area. They go where the farming is best and the fruit around here is sweet and there aren't as many scarecrows to keep them away now.

Now ask yourself again: Why this mass exodus? Why can't we seem to get anyone to come here? Once you've begun to ask these questions and begin to formulate the answers for yourself then you're ready to begin. Now you need to find a driver to get you there. Too many people on the road cause traffic problems, but when everyone's on board with the same idea and one driver then things go so much more smoothly. I speak of the police because I know several of them. They all have families, just like you. They all have dreams, just like you. They are want to do the best they can in their carreers, but their families come first. Their dreams come second and if they can't even take care of the first then they have to move on. We've lost some very good officers because of all this and we're going to lose even more. We've lost people that were being courted by other agencies because they liked to work here. Why has that changed?

Thank you for your time,

The true horror of this world is not the criminal minds that pursue vile intent. It's the apathetic view by those who stand idly by and point fingers without the will and courage to act.-DR

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Sun, 03/11/2007 - 2:48pm.

Cops only work one-third of the time. Just like everyone else on salary they work 8, get of 16, or work 24, get off 48, or what have you. They also get two days a week and some holidays off.
Your numbers don't seem to favor this!
I don't really understand the gist of the rest of what you said, I'm afraid. We probably won't do any more than you have about research!

Dalton Russell's picture
Submitted by Dalton Russell on Sun, 03/11/2007 - 6:01pm.

The only thing I'm trying to say is that everyone on here seems to say the same thing, or something close to it, but no one seems to have a solution. The numbers I have didn't get a lot of research because I wanted to respond to what I had seen rather than wait and let the topic die out by the time I could dredge up all the statistics. Public Safety as a whole is understaffed and everyone always wants to say "Cops, Firemen, and Teachers are all underpaid. I think they should get a raise." But this only comes with the increase in taxes. Any politician will not, WILL NOT, run on a policy of tax increase. They know they'll lose. This is the only way to balance a budget and get the pay that those people need to get for the work that they do. And it's not just those three groups of people. How many other city departments are affected by the pay and benefits canabalizing that has been proposed?

As for working only 1/3 of the time you're right, if you're looking at just their regular time. You also forget to include courts (municipal, state, superior, juvenile, grand jury, and magistrate) which are a part of their jobs. This also takes time away from the road coverage for our city. The numbers were a rough estimate of how many short we are on officers.

As for the gist of what I was saying. Why does everyone stand around and watch a drowning man in the water without getting in to help? We are all on this website complaining in one fashion or another, but not really giving any solution to the problems we know exist. Someone eventually has to step up and make the initiative to do something to begin the change we all want. That's my gist.


The true horror of this world is not the criminal minds that pursue vile intent. It's the apathetic view by those who stand idly by and point fingers without the will and courage to act.

ManofGreatLogic's picture
Submitted by ManofGreatLogic on Sat, 03/10/2007 - 1:34pm.

As long as some joker says, "I'm a conservative," you'll vote for him, and you'll like it. You'll get screwed, and you'll take it.

You guys didn't know that a conservative like Logsdon would be friendlier to developers than the citizens?

Well, that makes you a complete sucker.

I saw it coming a mile away, and so did you. But God forbid you put your pride away.

At least we don't have a "holiday" tree anymore. Phew.

It's the same on a national level. Big war, big debt, less civil liberties, but thank goodness Bush isn't fooling around with an intern. What a relief.


You reap what you sow.

Submitted by INTHEKNOW07 on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 8:46pm.

Chief Murray and the officers of the Peachtree City Police Department are the finest group of men and women I have ever worked with. I am a City employee and have come to know many of the officers and management staff. The employment standards are high and they should be kept that way. Too often in this City, the citizens have become grossly complacent with the excellent quality of service provided to them at a very very minimal cost. I am including all City services in that generalization.

So I think the more obvious question in this situation is why are there so many vacancies? Answer: This hiring of well educated and responsible police officers brings with it a double edged sword. 5-7 years ago the starting pay for PTC officers was among the tops in the metro Atlanta area and over the years the other agencies have caught up. And yes, other agencies do provide one time bonuses and I have first hand knowledge that Sandy Springs and Alpharetta have higher starting salaries. 3 weeks ago in the Atlanta Journal Alpharetta was advertising a starting salary of up to 50,000 with experience. The problem is not with the starting pay at PTC it is with retention of our officers. City Council made it very clear in the last budget process where they stood in regards to paying the City employees. The reduction in cost of living and the implementation of a discriminatory performance apprasail system with mandatory reductions in pay raises beginning in 2008. Now, outside the internal workings of the City it is a little known fact that the Department heads and the City Manager did not see a reduction in their annual bonuses. In 2006, each department head recieved around $5,000 in addition to their salary that is placed directly into their retirement fund. The City Manager received a negotiated $10,000. Anyone who doubts me, please go to City Hall and get this information under the open records act. Chief Murray is the ONLY department head to voice out against receiving these bonuses in open budget hearings at the Library. You will not be able to retain employees by balancing the budget on their backs. In this case, it is obvious that officers are abandoning ship for better paying employment. Couple this with a low starting salary and PTC residents may want to brace themselves for rough seas ahead.

Submitted by thebiggun on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 9:50pm.

Let me get this straight, the City Manager aka "Bernie", the same one arrested for DUI in 2006 after a concert at a city facility by the Peachtree City Police Department, received a bonus of $10,000.00 for his outstanding performance that year? What kind of pay raise did he receive for 2006 ? In conjuction he made recommendations to reduce cost of living raises for city employees, reduce merit increases and raise health insurance cost for all city employees. What did his flunky the Assistant City Manager get for a bonus? I believe he use to be the Public Works Director who was in charge of Public Works Department when everyone he Managed for many years was arrested, resigned or was fired in a major corruption investigation that was conducted by the Peachtree City Police Department. What was his bonus for 2006 ? What is his salary and what kind of raise did he get in 2006 ?

Now lets see, Bernie arrested for DUI by the police, his flunky Assistant City Manager under investigation by the police for having a corrupt department, the Mayor, or yea the same Mayor that was talking out in the paper about how he and all the council support "Bernie" after his arrest, and now we are wondering why the police department is under paid. Come on folks you don't have to be very bright to see what they are doing, GETTING EVEN !!!!!! And they are getting even by putting the security of all the citizens in this community at risk.

Ask anyone that goes to bars in this city and ask them what elected officals hang out drinking in them all the time. Ask the insiders when they go to a party and those same elected officals are always to drunk to drive home. I have friends both in elected positions and in the police field and they all tell me that this group of elected officals running the city believe that they, their friends and their kids should always get a free pass when it comes to being held accountable for their behavior. I for one am sick of it.

I pay a lot of tax for living in this city. In a couple of years we will vote these bums out of office but what I don't want is crime here after they leave and for the rest on my tenure as a resident have to put up with what their "GET EVEN" policy has done. If it takes 40 or 50 thousand dollars for starting pay for a police officer, then let's pay it. I am willing to pay for the best officers we can hire and retain. I would love to see a police officer and his family living in the house next to me and not trying to earn enough money to live in some apartment. I want my property values to continue to increase because people will want to move here because it is safe. I want my family safe and am willing to foot the bill for it. No one and I mean no one will ever care if Bernie or Logsdon were part of anything this city has to offer but they will care when their family can not use the cart paths or go out at night because it is not safe any more.

The trouble is not the police it is your City Manager and Mayor and City Council. If you think that is not the truth, ask the Fire Department, Public Works Department or the Recreation Department.

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 7:25am.

I had a good suggestion for Chief Murray, I posted a couple of days ago, but he probably won't do it.

The police need to target y-nots, and make sure that our sorry low-life city manager is not driving. His license was taken away for a year if memory serves.......let's make sure that is strictly enforced.
As a citizen here when I see one of these low-lifes trip out of y-nots, I have no choice but to call the police and report what I consider an impaired driver: it is our duty as citizens when we see someone breaking the law we have to report it.

They need to make sure all of the council people are following the law to the letter: That means no speeding, not even one mile over the limit: That means no ordinance violations, yard, home, cartpath, etc.

Getting revenge is a game EVERYONE can play. We have a lot of picky ordinances here you can't tell me that they are following all of them. You can't tell me that they don't drive 5 miles over the limit(I bet it's even more than that) Most of us would have a hard time measuring up against ALL of our ordinances........but then most of us haven't been picking on the police.

If they are going to serve they better be able to follow each and every law here. If that's too hard maybe they will all resign!! We can start over now instead of waiting for the next election.

Since our city manager is so expensive, and obviously incompetent(he can't do his job without an assistant) he needs to go. We could find a recent MBA grad. with a drivers license and be better served. It would be more economical for the city to replace this knucklehead and his flunky with questionable ethics. We can't afford them, it's just buisness, not personal!! We have to balance the budget, and he definitly is the most expendable!!!!

The problem is our police are too nice here!!

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 9:10pm.

Our low-life drunk city manager, who is over paid to begin with, recieved a bonus of 10 large???

We could get college students in MBA programs to run this city more efficiently, as a free internship. We would be better served, and they would get valuable experience. This idea would be win, win for all of us.

We need to cut this bum out of our budget. We can't afford him, and the cops, firemen, and public works people are doing all of the REAL WORK here anyway!!!

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 7:21am.

Chief Murray should just target the Mayor, City Manager and his deputy. Don't hide it ether. Let them know that there being watched.

Not that they don't already know what make/model car they drive and tag numbers. Follow them around for a while. I'm sure some off-duty officers would love to catch any of them breaking the law. DUI comes to mind.

Once the Chief has something on them, us it!

I mean think about it, the Police can't stand the Mayor or city manager. The citizens of PTC can't stand the Mayor or city manager.

If we all work together, call the police when we see one of them breaking the law, problem solved.

If the city manager were to get another DUI, there's no way the Mayor could save his rear-end.

Do the members of the city council or the city manager have to get a "background" check?

Remember, just because you feel paranoid, doesn't mean nobody's watching you!

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 8:13am.

What's the matter with you man? You know as well as everyone else that if you staked out Logsdon he wouldn't be able to make it out of the parking lot without getting a DUI. Wouldn't that violate his rights? I'm sure there is something in the Americans With Disabilities Act that protects him. Leave him alone. He can't help himself.


You don't need to defend a Lion. You just need to let him out of his cage.
C.S. Lewis

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 8:37am.

Being an alcoholic is a disease, not a disability. He deserves whatever he gets. Even if our cops are too nice to stake out the parking lot of that eyesore watering hole, I will be there. I hope other citizens will do the same.

Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 10:56am.

Buddy....Please tell me you recognize a joke when you see one.

You don't need to defend a Lion. You just need to let him out of his cage.
C.S. Lewis

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
B.F. 1789

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 12:55pm.

I recognized your humorous sarcasm since I use it regularly myself!

I added that clarification so that dollar and bladderq didn't chime in with their usual liberal slant on crime.

Submitted by skyspy on Thu, 03/08/2007 - 7:31am.

That's what I'm screaming. We all have a duty to report these low-lifes each and everytime they break the law!!! They need to be made very uncomfortable, they need to know that every citizen is watching, and hates them.

It is our duty as good citizens to report law breakers!! Our sorry drunk city manager is supposed to be walking to work, or taking a taxi anyway.

Submitted by chill on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 1:07pm.

i hope the citizens of peachtree city realize this...the salary issue is not half the story. i personally have heard these statements "you couldn't pay me enough to work in PTC" -anonymous Henry County PD Officer, "whenever i had to work with the Peachtree City PD it was a nightmare" -anonymous retired Atlanta PD Officer. The main problem is not the pay, it is the reputation the Dept. has earned. It is the result of the failure of the leadership, to include not just Murray, but Dupree, Pye, and others. In my opinion we are long overdue for a change.

Submitted by lowrider on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 7:12pm.

In response to heh's post,

The only failure in the police department is that they should have canned you much sooner than they did. The inside scoop from PTC officers, at least those that I've talked to today, is "retired cops have a right to an opinion, they have earned it", and "people like you have nothing better to do than to character assassinate". By the way, as large as Henry County is surely they have there own problems. Your anonymous Henry County officer would do his department a service by doing something constructive for Henry County PD and worrying less about gaining or avoiding employment with Peachtree City.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 4:34pm.

Working in PTC as an officer is considered to be a bad gig. Most cops I know wouldn't do it if you held a gun to their heads.

The top reasons are:

Dealing with brat a_ _ kids

Dealing with the brat a _ _ kid's worthless, careless birthcontrol challenged parents

Dealing with abusive arrogant idiots when they get caught doing anything wrong.
We are a very verbally abusive, and disrespectful people as a whole. I heard this from the last cop that pulled me over in Buckhead, he couldn't get over how polite I was.....inspite of the fact that I was from PTC....he gave me a warning. You know for a city that has as many churches as we do, you people have a long way to go when it comes to practicing what you preach. What a bunch of shameless hypocrites.

These guys aren't getting paid enough to take the holier- than -thou attitudes from people who are in and out of foreclosure, and one paycheck away from bankruptcy.

Since very few people want to be cops to begin with, and they apparently don't want to work here.......maybe, just maybe we should start to appreciate the officers we have for a stinking change.

Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 5:07pm.

A few years back, I heard this great story about the Canton GA police dept. An officer noticed a car idling at 4 a.m. behind a warehouse that had been burglarized 3 times in the past few months.

He crept up on the car, to find two undressed teenagers going at it in the front seat.

Uh oh, one of them was the mayor's daughter.

The officer had a "Captain Stan Pye" moment...should I let them go or not? He opted to let them go....and was fired shortly afterwards.

The girl complained to Daddy that the officer wouldn't let them finish...

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 6:44pm.

When did it become fashionable for parents(using the term loosely) completely abdicate their authority as parents???

Cops are damned if they do.....and damned if they don't. No wonder it's not a popular job.

ArmyMAJretired's picture
Submitted by ArmyMAJretired on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:04pm.

I've been here over 11 years and have seen nothing but OUTSTANDING work by the department.

Our crime is low, we don't have no-knock shootings of little old ladies or officer involved shooting that other departments have. I feel safer in Peachtree City than just about any place I have lived before.

They are accredited and have served us well. What has your history been with them?

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 5:58pm.

I think you are correct in your evaluation of our police for their work up to now.
They do ticket a lot of people for vehicle problems and rapidly answer a lot of calls.
What I see coming however means we are not now prepared to handle. For instance, we have apparently had scores of houses growing pot in Fayette county for sometime. It took a call from the FEDS in Miami to tell us where they were located and stll were.
The invasion of Fayette in recent years of a population from northern adjoining counties of their type crime, much of which we have never experienced in quantity here. Armed robbery, vandalism, bullying, trashing, etc., comes to mind.
Few illegals actually live in PTC, I think, but if they ever do live here or nearby, I doubt we are qualified to handle such problems as say, Gwinnett has. And, since it takes years to ramp up and train for such things, we need to stop spending so much time on non-violent crime and start fending off the really bad stuff.

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 1:06pm.

There is never a shortage of people who want to become police officers. Several things keep the number down: the qualifications required by the hiring office, such as education required, testing scores, sex, background--military, speeding tickets, etc., appearance, physical condition (not after hiring--before), and ability to interview well, and of course the pay.
Secondly, municipalities who hire police do not want to get into a hiring war with each other by raising their salaries too much above others. We could end up like New York trash collectors, who can make $80,000 per year, or more.
It is my opinion that proper training is as good a way to have a qualified police officer as is a college degree. After all, there are numerous ways to get a "college degree," some of which are valueless as far as training is concerned.
The military and industry find and train non-college people all of the time, successfully.
Another problem is that more money is mostly made now in police departments by the route of promotion, and very little by time only.
One can end up with too many Colonels that way!
Nothing wrong with a qualified traffic officer who has been a corporal for 10 years. It does require the supervisors to be more careful (work harder).
Bottom line, as some now always say, is that officers, degreed or not, need to be paid a living wage to suit their authority and requirements. That would attract more who want the job for something other than the uniform and whistles.

maximus's picture
Submitted by maximus on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 1:24pm.

I have only been in Peachtree City for about a year and have been pulled over twice by the police (my fault, I had a burned-out headlight), but both officers were very polite and well spoken. While I don’t think it absolutely necessary to become a good police officer, it might be worth the extra pay that we give them to have some higher education.


Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 11:26am.

I checked around at various police dept websites in the metro area to see what the going rate was for entry-level police officers.
Atlanta - $34K
Marta - $34K
Dekalb - $34K
Clayton - $33K

Now in fairness to the Chief, many departments give a bonus of 3 to 5 thousand dollars for applicants with a college degree.

I didn't see a single dept offering a starting salary of $41K...Dekalb county bragged about having the highest starting salary for metro Atlanta officers at $39K a year.

I would question Chief Murray's fixation on college graduates. I don't buy his argument that we need college-educated officers because the typical PTC homeowner has a college degree.

What exactly is the additional benefit of this college degree? Does this make an officer "smarter"? How smart do you have to be to do the nuts and bolts job of a small city police officer? Writing a traffic ticket and/or investigating a burglary requires a bachelor's degree?

I also take issue with the statement about affordable living for PTC officers. Peachtree City is a largely upscale community. I doubt police in Beverly Hills, California live within their respective city limits as well.

Since the "playing field" for officer recruitment appears to essentially level, and absent a compelling argument for college educated officers, I submit that it is simply a failure of Peachtree City police senior management to recruit sufficient qualified candidates.

mudcat's picture
Submitted by mudcat on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 7:43pm.

Sure he has a fixation on college degrees because all college graduates in their 20's are whiny liberals and not likely to pull their weapon out and shoot someone. The shooting is bad for leadership and I don't mean just the paperwork.

If you get the ex-Waffle House cook who passed Police Academy, you have a much higher chance of a shooting. No good. Instead hire the socially responsible liberals who will let the scumbags live to come back another day.

Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 10:13pm.

Now I am wondering if fulltime law enforcement officer and part-time pet assassin Tommy "Deputy Dawgkiller" Grier is a college graduate.

Submitted by RuKiddin on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 7:54pm.

Good stuff mudcat.

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 4:18pm.

Compare cities to cities. Did you check Sandy Springs?? They are stealing(winning our cops because of salary). They have a higher starting pay, and less area mile wise to cover. They just stole(lured) 4 PTC officers and 3 from the Sheiff's Office, or so the urban rumor mill reports.

These guys are a cut above the rest because of their education, which is the main reason the mouthy brats and their parents(friends) don't get a dailey pounding......for being mouthy brats.
Do you know what happens when you hire backwards GED dropouts off of the street???
You lip off to them like most of you tards do when you get pulled over here in PTC and you get to go home with a black eye!! If you go home at all. Because when you try to defend yourself in that situation, you are assaulting a police officer, and as it turns out that is a felony. So yes, since I don't want to get beatup for speeding it is a big deal.
Maybe you have a good plastic surgeon on retainer....I do not.

To answer your other rebuttal: I don't know what FBI agent you were taling to but he must have retired in the early 80's.(don't ask reitred agents questions when they have been drinking) The FBI, CIA, DEA will not hire you without a college degree. The starting pay is better also.

To answer another of your points: "upscale", or "uperclass" and PTC all in the same sentence ...HUH??? Is this the same PTC I live in with the riverdale like buisness and crime(mostly by teens)???? The same one that has had many foreclosures in the past few months?? The same city with frumpy, dumpy homes that haven't been updated since the day they were built!? They haven't been updated because the people who have bought them went deep into jumbo loan land to buy them to beging with. The only thing UP here is foreclosures and credit card debt....give it a rest.

We need these guys more than they need us.

PS: If they start recruting the high school dropouts, be very careful, because when your door gets kicked in,(like in Atlanta) in the middle of the night, it will probably be the cops......not a criminal, careful who you shoot.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 1:49pm.

"What exactly is the additional benefit of this college degree? Does this make an officer "smarter"? How smart do you have to be to do the nuts and bolts job of a small city police officer? Writing a traffic ticket and/or investigating a burglary requires a bachelor's degree?"

With just two neurons rattling around in that racist empty head of your's I'm surprised that having an independent thought didn't kill you.

Keeping people, like you, off the Police force would be a good example of why Chief Murray wants people with collage degrees.

If you can handle it, try reading about the Criminal Justice Studies Program offered at UGA.

Being educated in Political Science, Sociology, Psychology, Medicine, Law, History, Philosophy, Economics, and Computer Science are what’s needed by today’s law-enforcement officers.

You’re a perfect example that even a monkey can be trained to curse the internet.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 5:24pm.

Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 3:35pm.

Honestly, bad_ptc, do you switch medications frequently or just go with the coolest colored pills?

Explain to me how a "collage" (sic) education is of benefit? You state the need for officers to be educated in political science. Why is this?

I tried reading the link you provided, but it's a badly formatted link..I guess the "collage" you attended didn't do so well educating you about computers. Sticking out tongue

A former FBI agent who works with me told me that 95% of all Criminal Justice degrees weren't worth the paper they are printed on, and that the FBI rarely hires folks with this degree. Looking at some of the courses required at other colleges (theory of prisons?), I would tend to agree with him.

If it's any consolation, I've never considered working as a police officer. In the first place, I couldn't afford to live in Peachtree City, and secondly, I'd most likely have to deal with bottom feeders like you and oldbeachbear. Laughing out loud

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 6:06pm.

U.S. Department of Labor

Training, Other Qualifications, and Advancement

Having been on the HS football team doesn't past muster.

If you want to advance in the criminal justice system, as with just about anywhere else, you must have a collage degree.

I don't know what you FBI friend does or when he joined but most of the agents that I work with have advanced degrees.

If I'm not mistaken the armed services have started requiring bachelors and/or master degrees for some positions.

But then again, there are some people that are happy with staying on the bottom and looking up.

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:50pm.

I'm not sure a collage certificate from the manual arts center for pasting newspaper clippings on boards would help!

Submitted by oldbeachbear on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:07pm.

your comments about basmati are priceless!

Submitted by keepreading on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 12:31pm.

If you plan on quoting websites, at least read them. The Chief mentioned a figure in relation to COLLEGE-EDUCATED police starting pay, which is quite different than what you listed for the above agencies. Also, the amounts listed for "Police Recruit" (the lowest) or similar is usually the amount the guy makes while he is in the Academy - a lower pay for that 10-12 week period. Here are the amounts I found for officers starting with a degree (in my 5 minute search):
Atlanta PD:
Officer with Bachelor's Degree: $41,303
Marta PD:
Officer with Bachelor's Degree: $38,500
Clayton PD:
Officer with Bachelor's Degree: $37,360
Dekalb PD:
Officer with Bachelor's Degree: $37,596

I saw no PDs that gave a "bonus" for college degree - it is a starting pay differential. A bonus would be one time only and would not be incredibly relevant here.

I'm not even going to touch the issue of whether or not officers should have a college degree - just pointing out that since PTC has historically hired primarily college educated officers and continues to do so, your statistics on pay were inaccurate at best.

Basmati's picture
Submitted by Basmati on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 12:52pm.

I used the word "bonus" when I should have used "differential".

You'll note that each of those sites has an entry-level salary of around $34K. Further, the gist of my post was do we really need college-educated officers or is that just an affection of the current Chief.

Your statement about PTC "historically" hiring college grads smacks of "but...but...we've ALWAYS done it that way!" Ask a Ford union member what that gets you.

I stand by my post. Feel free to disagree.

Submitted by keepreading on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 2:04pm.

I personally have no problem with having a different opinion than someone else. Life would be pretty dang boring if we all thought the same way. The main point of my post was not to get into the college degree discussion - my issue with your post was that you described the amounts you listed as comparable to Chief Murray's numbers in the council meeting. Since he was refering to officers with degrees, it seemed you were purposely using lower numbers to say that the $41K number had no relevance to the discussion. It may not have relevance to your discussion, but it does have relevance to the overall discussion and specifically Chief Murray's statements.

Submitted by dollaradayandfound on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 11:50am.

Of course the Chief has some responsibility in the shortage. He is the Chief. However there is the personnel people and the city managers who also could help. But it is kinda rough for a $150.000 dollar man to help hire $34,000 people.
The problem here is that all current officers would also have to be bumped the same dollar amount as new hires under a bumped up hiring minimum dollar. If say five new hires were offered $40,000, then all of the other, estimated, 60, would also get $9,000 bumped up. With the added fringes we are talking about a MILLION.
Since the average ticket now costs about $250.00, 4000 new tickets would have to be written to cover the increases. That is only 65 additional tickets per year---one ticket additional every four days, for each officer, and could be done, I suppose.
But, the socialistic thing to do is to raise taxes one million dollars and proceed. Everyone should pay this instead of putting the monkey on the cops back to collect their own salary. I know that the offenders should pay it, and not you and I, but what the heck?

Robert W. Morgan's picture
Submitted by Robert W. Morgan on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 8:36am.

Make a deal with Council, offer to sell some of their surplus land and use the proceeds to increase the pay of new and existing officers. The bridge to nowhere land that Brown and Rapson bought for $800,000 must be worth at least $900,000 by now. Wouldn't that solve your pay problem for several years?

This is a great idea and you could get all the officers to be trained as real estate agents so on their days off they can market the property - why not, after all they will benefit too. Real estate agent training can't be that long or difficult if you look around at some of them in the city.

Let's bring that up at the next council meeting. I'll throw in some $ for an appraisal so we know what the property is worth and everyone at the city will have a copy before the next meeting.

Chief, whether this works or not, we will see, but regardless you and your officers are doing a great job. The citizens appreciate you even if council acts like they do not.

Submitted by johenry on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 11:01am.

Oh how nice. First we sell green space for big box stores. Next we sell our green space to pay for city services because the city council is too busy doubling their pay and paying off the Peachtree National Bank scam from the development authority.

Why don't we just keep selling our parks and playgrounds on a continual basis to help fund our current city mismanagement crisis! Hey why don't we sell the waste dump we bought from Pathway?

Submitted by skyspy on Wed, 03/07/2007 - 8:14am.

I'm sorry that our low-life city council does not value your service, or the service of your officers. They do not represent the average citizen here.

Make sure your officers know the cars and tage numbers of our council fools. Hint: target y-nots.(you should be targeting that anyway) Make sure your officers know exactly where our council idiots live, when their security alarms go off stop for coffee first, then answer the call.

I know you are too good of a man, and you won't take my suggestions.

If I was chief our low-life city council wouldn't even go so much as one mile over the speed limit(not without true fear anyway). They definitly wouldn't drink and drive. When their security system went off, I'm just not sure exactly how long my responce time would be, it would just depend on the work load, and how short the shift was.

Note to our low-life mouthbreathing idiots: raise our taxes to pay for these cops, we need them more than they need us. To the people who snivel about high taxes...... move ....u-haul is ready when you are.

bad_ptc's picture
Submitted by bad_ptc on Tue, 03/06/2007 - 7:10pm.

Due to the unexpected purchase of the Tennis Center and our acceptance of our new pay raises, we regretfully inform you that we can't afford the outstanding services your agency provides to the residents of Peachtree City.

Your request for additional funding for new and current officers is denied!

P.S. please send an officer over to the tennis center every night to verify that I remembered to turn off the lights.

P.P.S. I would appreciate it if you could pick my dry-cleaning before you check my home for me and my kid needs a ride to and from soccer practice Tuesdays and Thursdays.

Your Peachtree City, City Council

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.