Tell you what, major...being a magnanimous sort I'll surrender peacefully on the Great Actor Debate. Enjoy your Rooster Cogburn dvd this weekend and please, stay out of any bar fights. You never know when some Alan Alda type might surprise you.

just the fact that an Alan Alda type would fight would surprise me.

He received his bachelor's degree from Fordham University in 1956.

After graduation, he joined the U.S. Army Reserve and served a six-month tour of duty as a gunnery officer in Korea following the Korean War.

Unless the Korean war did not end when we were taught in school, someone is a lying sack of excriment.

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Ex Airborne ranger ignoring

Belligerent
Arrogant
Schmuck
Meathead
Anti-social
Twit
Idiots

You are correct, Herr Major, and I am wrong. (And unlike you, I possess enough honor to admit when I am wrong.)

I got my information from the otherwise reliable www.military.com which stated, and I am quoting directly: "Alda joined the Army Reserve after graduating from Fordham. He completed the minimum six-month tour of duty as a gunnery officer during the Korean War." (emphasis added)

http://www.military.com/veteransday/Famous_Vets.htm

I should've noticed the age discrepancy. Enjoy your rare victory, Herr Major.

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Republicans Hate Us For Our Freedoms

Alan Alda served his country as an artillery officer in the US Army Reserve during the Korean War.

John Wayne was classified "2A" (deferred in the national interest) from 1939-1944..reclassified "1A" in 1944, his studio appealed to the War Dept. in Washington for his old "2A" back...and got it. Also of note, John Wayne was kicked off a "War Bonds" tour for fighting with soldiers who criticized his lack of service.

Small wonder that Herr Major would rather associate with Wayne over Alda....of course, Herr Major supports President Wartime Deserter as well. The company you keep.....

I have enjoyed some of Wayne's movies also--especially the old westerns where I think he was as good an actor as anybody in the 30s.
His late movies 60s,70s weren't much except vehicles to show his manliness.

I did like MASH (classics) with Alda. He also made a few good acting movies.
I always regretted that Wayne cheated on WWll draft due to a football leg (could fight and ride like a maniac however) or something, along with Reagan and others making crappy military documentaries in Hollywood. Horrible cheating went on with the WWll draft, I remember, and I was effected by it personally!(My Grandmother was left with no sons, (3), to run the farm, I had to do what I could at 10-14.)

It left me with the same impression I get when I listen to the Vice President spinning away. The British and Netherlands pull out of Iraq is "proof that our policy is working." Huhh? Democratic debate in Congress "validates Al Qaeida." What??? Alan Alda? John Wayne? All of the "git er done" analogies and one liners in the world are not going to end Iraqi on Iraqi violence. It is amazing that you continue to be blind to THAT, the major source of violence in Iraq. You want to promote a war on terror, but fight it with an insufficient all-volunteer force in a country at war with itself? That way, this country is not really at war; just a small percentage of brave Americans with a somewhat disinterested US population. And ArmyMaj, don't say "YOU" would rather fight short-handed than with draftees. YOU ARE NOT FIGHTING THERE. I am not fighting there. IT's easy to cheerlead from the safety of Fayette County, is it not? But you say you wish the troops version of the war would get out? I don't know that you would. Tammy Duckworth, the brave Army tripple amputee Iraqi war veteran does not agree with your open-ended approach. The democratic war-veteran congressmen elected in 2006 don't agree with you. The majority of Americans in this democracy don't agree with you. Army Sgt. Ronn Cantu, currently on duty in Iraq, very candidly let his opinion be known of what he felt about the mission in Iraq. As an active duty troop, he is protected by whistleblower statutes:

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/scp_v3/viewer/index.php?pid=16598&rn=49750&cl=1948410&ch=334515&src=news

Sgt Cantu, one of us brave volunteers, says this: "We volunteered to make a difference, not to just throw our lives away." He said they never see the enemy before the enemy sees them. They go out and about, they are attacked , and they react out of survival. Does this sound like the recipe for success to you, or do you think our current "policy" has soldiers in a meat grinder? Our administration seems to be making this up as they go along. And you ignore the Colin Powells, General Eastons, Shinsekis, Zinnis, etc. to cherry pick from the people who agree with your so far unproven point of view. You are right Army, America did vote and exercise national will, but you might want to site the 2006 election as opposed to the 2004 one. It is a bit more contemporary. I truly think our VP is dillusional. I don't think anyone listens to him anymore. Fox news spent more time on the Anna Nicole trial than the Scooter Libby trial. I think they were uncomfortable with how often Cheney's name came up. But we should get on board the Bush/Cheney express, right? No. Dead wrong! Our number one and number two politicians are going to have to realize that a war of rhetoric on terror (a tactic, not an enemy) is a recipe for failure. They, as Tony Blair has, need to come back to reality and realize that a diplomatic process and dialog between Sunnis and Shiite in and around the region must be openned. Remember the NIE report ArmyMaj? If all Al Qaieda elements left Iraq tommorrow, sectarian violence, the major source of death in Iraq, would continue. So where is YOUR solution to that Armymaj? Enough of the John Wayne "stuff." John Wayning got us where we are today, wondering how the Taliban has mounted a comeback in Afghanistan right under our noses.

cheers,

Kevin "Hack" King

It doesn't matter apparently how people die, necessary or unnecessary, or by accident. Ernie Pyle must have said everyone at Omaha Beach (dog faces that is) said we love this place! Same with the Pacific Islands! Even Macarthur spoke up and said by-pass those stupid islands and was overruled. If the latest fiasco with the Walter Reed treatment of the 25,000 blown up, or whatever, I don't believe anything the pentagon says, doesn't cause you to pause and say, whoa, how many more commanders can screw up and for nothing? Why are they obeying that stupid Texan any more? Speak up, resign for goodness sake.
What on earth has happened to our officer corps to cause them to go along with anything just to get to stay in? Needs a congressional hearing, and will get one too late for this slaughter.

(sorry Jeff, just showing the vileness of name calling)and that stupid Arkansan. It's their job. The military does not have the luxury of chosing which Commanders to follow. Yes, they can refuse illegal orders, but so far the President hasn't issued any that I know of.

Maybe, just mabe these generals that you are not fit to criticise are following their convictions to serve their country regardless of critcs that don't know what they are talking about.

You should have stayed in, you might have made sergeant by now.

I would be horrified if active military did not follow orders. I hope you caught retired General William Odum's paper at the Council of Foreign Relations:

William E. Odom, the head of the National Security Agency during the Reagan administration, says that President Bush should “eat a little humble pie,” admit the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, and seek U.N. forces to take over for U.S. troops.

It can be found here: http://www.cfr.org/publication/7006/odom.html

It's very hard for Republicans to disparage a three star general who was Reagan's National Security Advisor and I enjoy quoting them.

Here are two interesting examples of gentlemen in this all volunteer force of ours that allows us to fight with only back-door drafts.

The first is a friend of mine, retired Air Force LT Colonel. he was an intelligence officer, and retired after 20 years, with partial disability. He lives here in GA and is a professor. He was reactivated, not by choice, and sent to Va to man an intel shop left short-handed by rapid deployments to the AOR. Can you say back door draft?

Second soldier is an Army Sgt who, after a year in Iraq, a new marraige, and new baby, decided that it was time to get out and persue his dream civilian career. He was stop-lossed several months ago. In other words, they won't let him leave even though his committment is more than fulfilled. He is now back in Iraq for a second year. Do you know what he is doing over there ArmyMAj? He is burning human waste and Iraqi bodies. That is what he was kept in to do. He burns the bodies of Iraqis who aren't claimed by kin. That is how rapidly bodies are being produced over there. Does that sound like the makings of a highly motivated and inspired "all volunteer" force? I have my doubts..

Kevin "Hack" King

Well at about 150,000 dead Iraqis and anothe 4-5 hundred per week, hw may be there a longggg time.
Can't the Iraqis even do that right?

I now know why war is used by humans every chance they get! It is another career, with medals and pensions, and has not settled anything, ever. Just delays things sometimes.

The majority of the people I met in the service would have been happy serving their time 4 years or 30 years without having to kill anyone you butt head.

Guess you buy all that media "too stupid to do anything else", Stuck in the military garbage.

Did your parents have any children that lived?

I don't doubt what you said. Makes it much safer that way. I didn't like having my britches scared off a few times but I left after one enlistment due to just what I am cricizing, not due to defending my country longer might turn out to be dangerous. It was dangerous for four years, enough. I think the problem does come in after several years, especially in the officer corps.

I'll bet they regret that!

Can't stop laughing.

The best defense is a good offense, says Majorman.

Here’s the problem: We’ve BEEN on the offense in the middle east for about a hundred years. Maybe not militarily, but in just about every other way. Between us and the British we are essentially responsible for the boundaries and politics of that region – the good the bad and the ugly. We created whole countries, propped up regimes we liked (including Saddam when he was useful and compliant), and toppled some we didn’t (including the freely elected leader of Iran in 1959). We “volunteered” colonial land for creation of Israel to assuage European guilt after WWII. Yet we still seem shocked – shocked! – that the Palestinians just won’t get with the program after all these years. Today we go on and on about the transformative power of democracy. Yet we complain about the results when they don’t suit us (which is quite often, it seems), and our “best friends” – Jordan, Saudi Arabia and a bunch of Gulf oil states – are mostly run by kings or family mafias. You can look it up.

Sure, much of our activity in that part of the world has been well-meaning and had some good effects. But as has been the case with every empire (military or otherwise) in history, over the long term our effort to control events in a distant region has steadily generated enmity and sporadic terrorism among various factions. Islam is a binding agent, but the real enemy is human nature and the asociated emotions of resentment, revenge, pride, envy, etc. They don’t hate us because of “our freedoms,” they hate us because they perceive us as a foreign power that's too involved in their affairs, for too long, and in ways they don't like. The more direct our military involvement, the worse it gets – and you can look that up too. Ronald Reagan was too smart to get sucked into the quicksand after the Beirut Marine barracks bombing. Unfortunately the Bushes were not, although the elder had the good sense to make quick work of it. Still, if you read bin Laden’s pre-9/11 fatwah you’ll notice that one of his chief grievances was not that we elect women to school boards but rather that we had stationed troops on the Arabian peninsula after GW1.

This is not to say America “deserves” to be attacked or should go easy on terrorism. Terrorists who attack us should be hunted down and killed, period. But in the big picture, what we are dealing with are the costs of doing business the way we’ve done it for the past century. And so while killing terrorists as often as possible we also ought to be asking: what are we really doing in the middle east, anyway? What are the costs and risk factors in the modern world and what are the realistic chances that we can reduce them? Are we willing to keep paying them just to ensure a steady flow of oil for our SUVs and maintain our unqualified sponsorship of Israel? If so, for how long? Forever? And if we can't transform the region the way we want by creating an Ohio-on-the-Tigris in Iraq, how far are we willing to go to have our way?

Instead, our president – cheered on by the chest-beating Majormans of the world – dragooned us into a neocon fantasy of “fixing” the middle east at the point of an M-1 tank cannon. At least that was the rationale after the WMDs failed to materialize. And everyone who says, ‘hey wait a minute’ is a wuss.

And by the way major, Alan Alda is both a smarter man and a more talented actor than the Duke ever was.

Have you read Reza Aslan's book (No god but God), or read/heard any interviews with him? I read an interview (The Sun; Dec 2006) and found him to be most interesting. So interesting, in fact, that I'm contemplating purchasing the book. Your narrative reminded me of the interview.

No I haven't read Aslan's book but it looks interesting. One you might also be interested in is "Power, Faith and Fantasy" by Michael Oren, a history of America's involvement in the middle east going back two centuries. Haven't read it but intend to. Another is "The Places in Between" by Rory Stewart, an english guy who trekked across Afghanistan shortly after the Taliban fell. More of a travelogue/adventure book but educational as well.

Thanks for the tip.

Excellent summation of a complex situation, luckydog. You stand head and shoulders above the rest of us....I salute you.
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Jiminy "Basmati" Cricket
Official Temporary Conscience for ArmyMajPinnochioRetired

Just trying to make sure you and af10 and jeffc don't feel too lonely around here...thanks for the kind words though

I like Alan and think he had more range but I've got to side with the Major on this one. The Duke is my man for war movies and westerns! And if it had not been for his endorsement, there never would have been a Panama Canal Treaty.