Though I am in principle opposed to this TDK deal, I am all for PLANNED, CONTROLED growth. The only way out is to manage growth, because growth is going to happen no matter what.
In addition, I fail to see the difference between Coweta and PTC, just an imaginary line. Whatever happens across that line is certainly going to affect us. Integration of urban areas is blind to these imaginary lines. This whole TDK issue shows the need to have better integration of plans between neighbouring counties. The "Republic of Fayette" mentality is only going to get us in trouble. We need leadership that clearly understand this and are able to foresee not only the problems but the solutions for the next 15-30 years in terms of transportation (road expansion, interstate spur into PTC and even intelligent, controlled mass transit systems between PTC and ATL or the airport, etc). We obviously lack this leadership now--- the only thing I see is a gut, isolationist reaction to the problems upon us.

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Making you think twice......

If county lines are merely "imaginary" then I am sure you will not mind sending your children to the the schools in Fulton County or Clayton County. After all, political jurisdictions are only imaginary...come to think of it, so are some of your ghoulish thoughts.

You go to peripherals and leave the subject out. What do you really propose to save our city? Save it from who, anyways? From Claytonians and South Fultoners? Do you really want to prevent people from coming into Fayette County? Punish those with tags from Coweta?

Cities with walls ceased to exist after the Middle Ages. It is a differnt world now, so you better realize it: growth is happening, like it or not, in 15 years our entire Fayette County will be part of greater Atlanta (if not already). Why do you think I-85 is being expanded with additional lanes?

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Making you think twice......

I enjoyed that one when I was in college. I think you can really shake it for a corpse!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT90keJ51bY

That was me, indeed.
At the time I was a recent emigree from Transilvania. I quit working for Jacko when I found out about his creepy habits. By the way, he also shares your "city with walls" mentality, it is called Neverland in Santa Barbara, CA.

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Making you think twice......

Why would I start just because of a two lane bridge?

Shop there to avoid the other stupid bottleneck at 54/74 and for different kind of stores, and because they are new---we do things like that. Maybe you don't.

You speak of a bottleneck at 54/74, it's not that bad at all now, it will be if we don't add access at other points across Line Creek. Coweta will develop, and they will want to get to to Hwy 74, just as wew use 34. Right now it's a long way from Rockaway to 54. They'll be coming and going from both directions and I don't see how forcing everyone to use 54 is going to help one bit. Like I've said in other places, maybe I just don't get it.

The Direct PAC blogger the_assassin (post below) has proven that if you can’t beat’em then lie like the devil to discredit them.

The_assassin was lying about former Mayor Brown approving 400 townhome units on the Wieland property. It turns out Steve specifically said “no multi-family” housing and 360 single family units.

City Council Minutes
March 17, 2005

“Brown moved to take the request to the next step in the annexation process with the concept of residential lots only, with no multi-family, that 360 be used as a conceptual number, and Wieland would cover the cost of staff time up to $20,000. Kourajian seconded. The motion carried 3-2.”

The Logsdon crowd is looking at 460 houses and no public amenities like ball fields as was in Steve's plan. What are we really gaining from the adding 100 houses?

As for the_assassin’s comments on the church and the Comprehensive Plan, another lie. Whether you wanted a chruch or a Walgreens, the Comprehensive Plan allowed for both. This was also brought up in the Comprehensive Plan Review Committee.

Such a pity that most people will believe whatever lies they are fed.

1. Brown did approach Wieland and asked him to consider annexation (at a time when there was a moratorium on annexation and the staff was prohibited from discussing that with any developer). Townhomes were not part of it then, but don't you think a developer gets emboldened when the mayor invites him to annex?
2. Brown not only voted for Walgreens he went to the land use committee meetings at the church and encouraged their rezoning efforts.
Those are facts.
meow

Mudcat (aka: RobeMudcat W. Morgan) is spreading the manure again. The old Wieland meetings with Steve were open to the public, even the press was there. Brown started a discussion and took no official action.

However, RobeMudcat W. Morgan's, the Direct PAC's puppet, Harold Logsdon personally solicited nine separate annexations without a vote of the city council. Logsdon sent his nine requests through the city and held meetings with the landowners behind closed doors in secret.

Citizen 03/07/2006
"Logsdon hasn’t been shy about his wish to annex land in the 'West Village' and Monday said he hopes to annex, the entire island of unincorporated county from the current city limits west of the CSX railroad track all the way north to the Tyrone town limits.
Last week, the city mailed letters to nine property owners in that area asking if they would like to have their land annexed by the city, Logsdon said."

Shame, shame on Harold Logsdon. Double standards and lies from two-faced RobeMudcat W. Morgan. RobeMudcat W. Morgan complains that Steve Brown went to a meeting at a local church, so what was wrong with that? Are you going to file another ethics frivolous complaint against him?

How fitting RobeMudcat W. Morgan chose to copy ultra liberal Al Gore with his "inconveinent facts" line. However, the proper spelling is "inconvenient." Please don’t blame you misspelling on Steve Brown too.

-----------------------------------------------------------

"I think the mayor's office needs to take a lead on that."
- Harold Logsdon

Long before the meeting you mention, citizen Brown met with Wieland and his 2 flunkies outside of city hall and asked that Wieland initiate an annexation application. When the moratorium was mentioned by one of the flunkies, citizen Brown morphed into mayor Brown and said "No problem, we can lift the moratorium for discussion on just one project." Then a discussion about how important the bridge was and that Wieland had to include that in his application.
Factual, documented and witnessed. One of the flunkies was laid off by Wieland last month and may be a bit more motivated to discuss that meeting openly.

Logsdon's 9 letters were sent on city letterhead and was done as an official action by the city with the knowledge of council and staff. Can't say that about Browns flirtation with Wieland or his support of the Walgreens taking over the church.
meow

Mayor Brown didn't talk with Wieland, citizen Brown did, look it up.

That you and the rest of the "developer" crowd go Pavlovian over that is your problem.

Tell us mudcat, what happened at Steve's court hearing the other week?

Did the court decide that citizen Brown had the right to go on the Info. channel? The way you were salivating you would have thought is was CNN.

P.S. It's my time slot to be Steve Brown.

Yeah.....what happened to Steve in court. The way the Muddy Kitty talked Steve was toast. Would someone please let me know what happened to me?

Respectfully,

Steve Brown

__________

You don't need to defend a Lion. You just need to let him out of his cage.

C.S. Lewis

It will come up again in March at the next meeting of the State Ethics Commission.
meow

& For what reason? You have made much of this hearing as you did last spring promising to go to FLA on Spring Break & bringing proof of the condo. Your credibility is certain to be questioned.
Doesn't anyone care about this little news item?
http://www.thecitizen.com/node/14215

I was wondering when I was supposed to show up.

ROOOAAAARRRR
__________

You don't need to defend a Lion. You just need to let him out of his cage.

C.S. Lewis

BTW, would Mudcat tell me if I got life without parole for going on TV about SPLOST? I was busy developing a database to track all my screen names, so I didn't make it to my trial. But I am guilty as charged.

PS can I blog from prison?

You check yourself at the door girl.....I'm the Real Steve Brown....

Can you cover my shift on Mon. from 7-3?

The infamous "Ethics" hearing of Steve Brown (brought by the Tee shirt guy) was postponed because of the bad weather.

Yeah, Steve was way out of line going on a cable channel talking about the SPLOST. We had a barge full of politicians from here on Daufuskie Island with the hookers and yet Steve has to waste gas money on this nonsense. Go figure.

Learn of my fate? And do I have a lawyer?

Thnx,

SB

__________

You don't need to defend a Lion. You just need to let him out of his cage.

C.S. Lewis

We have a great lawyer duuuuhhhhh.

We also have a great case, and "we" can also bring a case for a frivolous lawsuit when "we" win. The damages from that frivolous lawsuit case will pay for my trip to Italy. Ummmm after we all divide it ...of course...

the Real Steve Brown

What did happen in court? Why aren't you crowing about it?

Get back to us we are all waiting to hear it. We being all of the Steve Browns. Funny that fox news didn't carry that "late breaking news"

Sincerely the Real Steve Brown

Hey bad your time slot is up at 11pm...I have the mid-shift

Perhaps John M you weren't around during Steve Brown's mayoral tenure.

While in office, he is the one who approached John Wieland Homes about rekindling the West Village annexation, which featured the nearly 400 unit townhome complex on an adjacent tract. One could presume that Steve Brown was "OK" with that since it was on the first version of the annexation plan Wieland produced. (The current council canned that idea, thank Gawd!).

Let's not forget that Steve Brown was the ONLY council member in favor of rezoning a church (Christ Our Shepherd@54 and the Parkway) for a drugstore (Walgreens). There was no rationale for this and it was AGAINST the land use plan that Steve Brown swore he'd protect. But he voted for it anyway.

The Walgreen's vote, had it prevailed, would have destroyed the character of that intersection. Churches on two corners, a restaurant and drugstore on corner 3 and a medium-size retail center on corner 4. That's the kind of "mixed use" area that makes PTC such a nice place to live.

Brown likes to pat himself on the back for challenging the Wal-Mart, but the land was already zoned commercial so the Council couldn't stop it, even if they took it to court. With Walgreens, though on a smaller scale, Brown would have been the "enabler" of more commercial development.

Sure, Brown did some nice stuff in office and was very receptive to public input. BUT DO NOT patronize those of us who paid attention during his four years. He was not always "against" developers. Just the ones who made this town what it is today.

I don't know much about Steve Brown (and I have never met or voted for him), but I have really enjoyed his recent letters that express a coherent logic and point out the obvious stupidity of the TDK bridge into Coweta. But if it wasn't Steve Brown, it would be someone else. My point is this: some charismatic person that points out the municipal suicide that we are about to commit will be elected Mayor of this city in a few years. Steve Brown is filling a leadership vacuum against some special interests that want to betray our beautiful town. All I can say is, unless someone else wants to assume this role, we are all going to get behind Steve Brown. You Coweta-based developers and local real estate profiteers are birthing Brown's re-election as we speak. The TDK profiteers and Fayette County Benedict Arnolds will ironically re-elect the man they hate the most!!

Brown may be un-diplomatic, but he is a fire breather, and this is what we need at present.

You need to know who you are looking up to. In Oct. 5,2005 Steve Brown (then Mayor running for re-election) wrote a long Letter to the Editor taking FULL CREDIT for actually getting the TDK Extension project moving. In fact at one point he BLAMED the Lenox administration for NOT funding it earlier! SERIOUSLY !!!! YOU NEED TO CHECK IT OUT!! It's easy, simply click on "archives," 2005, Oct. 5 edition, scroll down to "letters to the editor," then scroll down to the one entitled:

"Consider what record shows about council’s TDK"

Maybe you will wonder what I am wondering...exactly why didn't Brown and "his council" kill the project? Why did he SUPPORT it so strongly in 2005 (my guess is to get votes)? And if he can be so "two-faced" over this, what about what he claims now? Maybe HE'S the real "Benedict Arnold."

One other question, should our mayor be allowed to violate the Ethics Law? Some people here seem to think so.

Many of us who oppose the TDK project have no specific candidate(s) that we will support - - at this time. Actually, I could even support Harold Logsdon in the unlikely event he suddenly had a "Road to Damascus" experience and began protecting our city (and local merchants) from the City of McIntosh's traffic and mega retail complex. Let us hope our elected leaders realize that virtually every informed citizen opposes the TDK project. I have spoken with most of my neighbors about this topic, and not a single individual supports it. Many are very jaded about this, and have almost a fatalistic view that the city has been sold out and there is no hope....we are going to be Gwinnett South.

But there is great hope. Those that will fight for PTC are making our plans now. The recent events are bringing many people together, coming out of the woodwork. These people normally have little interest in local politics. A completely new force is being created in this town, and it will sweep future elections with the candidates that it supports. Watch and see.

Anybody who thinks that way, doesn't spend much time traveling. We are so far from being like that, it's not even worth mentioning.

Maybe once the GADOT figures out where the Outer Loop will go.

You are right most of these bloogers don't Git out of the province. GW has GW Mall, Discover Mall & Mall of GA + all the car dealers.

There is neither the funding nor the ability to overcome the environmental obstacles. Even if the advance planning started today, it would take 25 years to complete.

GDOT has more money than gawd & they make more everyday the longest commute commuters in the nation go to the pump. Too bad mass (or rapid) transit wasn't put on the Sonny-DO List.

Try doing the math again bladderg.

Georgia faces a $7.7 billion shortfall!’

"According to the DOT’s innovative "What’s the big idea?" web site, Georgia has big problems. DOT introduced them in cyberspace with the headline above. The site reported that there are "7.7 billion worth of much needed transportation projects statewide that were in the process of development or ready for construction but may not be built anytime in the foreseeable future because we have no money with which to build them."

Any questions?

Where did the money GO? This state's DOT has always been flush.

I guess Zell spent some to 4 lane the MTN Hwy to spoil his scenic homeland. I guess Sonny might have spent some to do something in that south-netherland....after he ripped the DNR out of that wilderness. Well, we know Barnes didn't git much done and he kinda talked about mass (rapid) transit. Did Joe Frank git it?

Where is the money?

There can be hospitals closing, kids with no pre-K money, no money for lawyers for people who have no money to defend themself, and the road fund can be running over with money, and they will not transfer a dime from there to any of the other needs.
It was set up that way so the road money goes to contributors to politicians---get it? We pave roads when not needed!
The excuse is that we would take all of the road money if we could get it! Not unles the government voted for it that way!
Roads have made a killing in these latest gas prices. The worst scandals Georgia has ever had came from road moneys.

Be sitting down when you read this.

Lane Mile costs

This is for the State of Florida. I haven't found the one for GA yet.

Did you know that the average cost of a traffic light is close to $100,000?

If you think GA has it bad, try this one: Iowa Reports $27.7B Transportation Shortfall

I actually thought it was closer to $250,000 or 1/4th of a million dollars..go figure.

They paved paradise, they put up a parking lot. They took all the trees, they put 'em in a tree museum. They charged the people ...

..because if the TDK extension ever happens, you will certainly experience a lot more time travelling...EVERYWHERE! Maybe you can play games with your kids and count Coweta tags.

Some of us can see further than our nose end.
We are trying to not only look out for ourself now with all the construction, but for our kids, our grandkids, and others---years from now.
Short sightedness is what causes wars, inflation, depressions, and more people born that way! It is selfish to think only for now.

Exactly how are we becoming anything like Gwinnett Co? I don't see it. I don't think one road being built signals that. It's OK to disagree on this, believe me. I'm not surprised there haven't been cries on here to shut down Rockaway while we are at it.

In my opinion, the one thing that will creat gridlock in this area in the future, is lack of access back and forth across Line Creek. My Mom used to live just over the Chattahoochee in Cobb County, and it was a continual bottle neck for Fulton/Cobb, the lack of ways to get back and forth across the river. I don't think trying to become an island is the answer. It's obvious others think it will be our ruin. Maybe I'm just not seeing it.

Sometimes a municipal government needs to build a road/bridge to handle existing traffic, and it may sometimes be prudent to build a road/bridge to handle projected normal growth. But the TDK debacle does not fall into either of these categories..it creates untenable conditions for PTC, and it subsidizes and encourages a MASSIVE tax-sucking development practically inside our city limits. It is HORRIBLE for municipal PLANNING purposes, and betrays the very core of our existence as a planned community. Coweta should develop as it wishes, but let that county pay for its own infrastructure.

BTW, Dawg, what is your occupation? Do you live in PTC?

I live in Spyglass Subdivision. I'm fully aware of what building/not building roads cannot do. Having grown up in Clayton County in the 70's and living in Henry for 10 years from around 93-03, showed me that lack of planning can be horrible. Combine that with lack of controls on what was approved for building, and you are looking at almost a disaster for areas of Clayton/Henry. Fayette is lucky that is doesn't have an interstate to deal with, they can be nice, but they can be disasters for planning around.

I still stand by my statement that Line Creek and access across from each direction is going to become an issue in the years to come.

You're about to be labeled a realtor/developer/profiteer. You see, according to SOC, you're either against TDK or you're trying to rape PTC. It doesn't matter what your past experiance is or how you came to your conclusion.

PTC has one way out of town to the West and nothing else for 6 mi. to the North and 5 mi. to the South. Developements planned all around PTC to the tune of approx. 5000 new residents and lots of retail. And that's only what has been proposed so far.

TDK is the only alternative crossing planned. Of course, TDK will increase traffic on Crosstown, and there you have the cause for the mindless ramblings of SOC. You see, from previous blogs, I've determined that SOC lives very close, if not right up against Crosstown. SOC will fabricate and exagerate to stop TDK. SOC only cares about SOC.

The Hwy 74/54 interchange will soon turn into a nightmare for anyone that wants or needs to travel that direction. The Hwy 54 widening has only been open for about a year, and traffic is already starting to back up.

Well, good luck to all of you , it doesn't matter to me either way. I only have about a year and a half left before I bug out. Just don't believe all of Save our Crosstown's " facts ". BTW SOC, what's your plan ? Try to be REALISTIC ( please don't offer up the ring road plan someone else dreamed up and you liked, boy , that was a good laugh ).