The always paranoid Mudcat is at it again. Get a life!

Mudcat = no facts + greed.

Go downtown with your buddy on Feb 1. Tell us all how that works out for you and him.

We will be waiting.

meow

I'm sure she'd do that if she could sign the petition with as many names as she uses on this board.

I don't care who you are - that's funny right there!

Is McDonoughDawg saying that the very dense developments in Coweta have been on the books for many years? I don't think so. In fact, most were introduced in 2006.

Flashing marquis lights (memories of Eat at Joes Eat at Joes Eat at Joes)

And dont forget the toll road

Get the flashing red Kenny Rogers roaster signs!

Dialog (from Seinfeld ep 'The Chicken Roaster'):

Jerry: Hey everybody, I'm on no sleep, no sleep!. You don't know what it's like in there, all night long things are creeping and cracking. And that red light is burning my brain!

Elaine: You look a little stressed.

Jerry: Oh I'm stressed!

.

Well ,I've read these blogs for months, and I have to say the TDK ext. is probably the most devisive issue I've come across. I have to be honest and say that my income is directly linked to population and increases in density. I've also been in the PTC area for well over 40 years.
With that said, I can tell you the growth in and aroung PTC will not stop. It never has. This is a very desirable area. It's not just desireable for us, It is desireable for this state,and of this county.And if of this country , of this world. It doesn't take but one listing in a worldwide publication as 8th best place in the U.S.to live to set many wheels in motion. Many people long for a better place to live. Why shouldn't they? That's why I live here. That's why my family grew up here.
I understand the emense pressure from the very highest points of power in this country to encourage growth, push growth, and at times, subsidize growth. Everyone owes their job or success in business to growth. You can not have stagnation in the economy. Sure, it'd be great if things would stay the same as when we moved here. It will not happen . If it did, you and I would probably have to move to a more progressive area.
Fayette county , Coweta , and Henry counties have tremendous pressure to grow to help the nation grow . Everybody above us is exerting this pressure, Republican and Democrat, national and local. Growth is the one thing that separates us from much of the world. The more we grow, the more powerful and secure we become.

If you think you moved into one of the best places on the earth to live and you want to close the door behind you , you are very naive. It won't happen. The best thing you can do is understand what is happening, try to shape the growth in a way that will not destoy the life and city you have now , and be prepared to vacate the area if things don't work out the way you wanted them to.

I know this entry will receive many shrill and over the top words. Keep in mind, I am neither for or against the TDK road. I've already planned an exit strategy if thing don't work out.

But they (especially Save Our City) do not want to hear that - they want to be told there is a way to stop it from happening and that it will not grow, become developed and overcrowded, and will remain as it was when they bought in. (Enter polititions here) By ther way, I employed my exit strategy in 2001 but also still have a large financial interest in PTC and Fayette County.

I usually don't have harsh words for people that are honest with me. You stated you position right up front and I find that refreshing.

Having adequate infrastructure in place or at least planned and funded is also necessary for growth.

Coweta County has neither planned or begun budgeting for the infrastructure needed to support this proposed development. GARTA, GA-DOT haven't either.

Building without proper planning is usually a disaster. The Atlanta area has many dull examples of "over development".

The "quick buck" is all that matters to some people. "Let the folks that live there and work there be damned. We'll make a killing and move on" seems to be the current business model.

I did not mean intend to attack you personally or attack your position on TDK. Like I said, I've read this blog for months, and I find you to be one of the most level headed bloggers here. I also appreciate the time you spend researching various topics. If you have to commute in the Hwy 74 mess on a regular basis, hang in there, unfortunately, it's going to get much worse. You're right, Hwy 74 should be 6 laned ASAP. Unfortunately, it ain't gonna happen until a certain level of gridlock and hence misery is reached. The GA DOT has no foresight whatsoever. In their case, it's not the squeeky wheel that gets the oil, it's the smoking, screeching, just about to lock up wheel.
Like I said earlier, the local growth is really just about to get going at an unbelievable pace. Unbelievable , at least, to most of us from this ,up to now, quiet peaceful little haven. Look at the mess in Roswell and up I85 near the Mall of GA. What a nightmare!
I think a vast majority of us would like to see things progress a little slower and have the appropriate infrastructure in place prior to these developements. I don't see that happening, with the GA DOT and the State claiming there's a shotfall of highway funds.Well, I could go on and on about the growth and detail numerous projects that many people aren't even aware of yet, but I think if we want to have a say in the process, we'd better come up with a plan. By plan, I mean something other than Save Our City's completely unreasonable and inaccurate rants ( 86,00 cars a day through TDK to Hwy 74?? I don't know where that figure came from, but it's waaaay off base. There are 55,000 cars a day at the Bullsboro intersection at Walmart in Newnan. I don't care if you were just born, you won't see that many cars at TDK and Hwy 74 in your lifetime).
I think what's needed is an organized group of Fayette and Coweta citizens that are willing, and even demand to meet with our local and state representatives and offer our input. It may not seem like much, but you have to organize and offer a counterbalance to the thousands of people that develope, or work for developers. These people are exerting pressure full time, every day, for their side.
OK. I've rambled on enough. I don't type and I'm tired of pecking the keyboard. I nominate Bad to head up this group and I'll gladly donate some time and money to the cause. I'll peck again in a couple of days. Happy New Year everyone.

Our locally elected officials as well as those we elected to represent us in Washington are the ones that need to see the light.

The attitude here that any form of mas transit will "bring in undesirables" is partly to blame for our current situation.

Fayette County has never even tried to get an accurate count on the number of commuters that pay for this county. PTC did their last attempt some six or seven years ago.

Again let me state clearly that I have nothing against good, needed and planed development. Building for the sake of building with no long term cohesive goals doesn't benefit any of the current homeowners that are currently paying the taxes for this place.

While I'm on that subject the idea that "Big Box" stores hurt a community is bull. They do have a major impact on "Mom & PoP" stores but they also generate HUGH amounts of tax revenue.

A single COSTCO can generate sales of over $1,000,000.00 weekly. The corporate management works strongly with the local community so that they are a benefit to a community. The average hourly salary at one of these stores if over $17.50, the highest in the industry, plus they pay some of the highest health and training benefits in the industry. They don't earn over 64 BILLION annually for nothing. They're not being sued, by their employees, for unfair labor practices every other day like Wally World is.

The idea that light industrial/manufacturing jobs are a benefit to this community is just stupid. As far as I concerned we need to take the entire "industrial area" and convert it into a well planned, well thought out, well operated retail complex and get the tax revenues for ourselves. We're already going to get the traffic, that can't be stopped. We might as well get the taxes we're going to need to maintain this place.

Better yet, bring in light rail and GRATA into the industrial area and charge all out of county users a premium for it's use. Turn the whole thing into a giant parking lot. Charge for parking for out of county users. It's better than building another mega shopping center and the "undesirables" wont come to a parking lot that you have to walk/run to someones house or store to rob.

Coweta County may not want to, legally can't, pay Fayette County for the use of the roads, but I would be willing to bet their taxpayers would. Reduce someones commute time by 15 to 30 minuets one way and they will use it. Especially since most Atlanta employers subsidize an employees mas transit expense so it's basically free to the user.

wrkhrd4it, here are the trip calculations for the City of Mcintosh:

BASE YEAR AUTO OCCUPANCY RATES BY TRIP TYPE (RESIDENTIAL)
Trip Type (& Trip Rate)
Work (1.10)
Shopping (1.92)
School (1.78)
Home Based Other (2.15)
Non Home Based (2.09)
TOTAL TRIPS PER PERSON PER DAY: 8.94 * 10,000 City of Mcintosh residents (year 2016)=89,400 trips per day generated

What percentage will flow into PTC? Be sure and add the other future southern developments using 74. Don't plan on driving on 74!!

"Submitted by Enigma on Sun, 12/24/2006 - 1:09pm.

... Allow me to over simplify the life cycle of a city like PTC:

People start a community and others like is so they move in. These move-ins like it the size it is and have no complaints. Those who were already there may or may not like it now that it is bigger with the new move ins. (Exit Enigma here)By planning ahead, many know what the ideal size, the projected size and the proposed size is of the city and it is called a 'planned community'. (Enter PTC here)

You cannot tell people that they cannot move in. (Enter Federal Law)

You can regulate the rate of growth to some extent, you can accelerate it or delay it, you can profit from it, you can lose money from it, but it will occur none the less just as long as you have a desirable place to live. (Enter county and city ordinances here).

The more people move in, the more traffic there will be, the more crime that will occur, and the bigger the burden on existing infrastructure, utilities and the higher the costs of government business will increase due to building costs to acomodate growth. Again,..you can profit from it (politicians who see the growth coming get first shot at a piece of the pie) or you can not profit from it...but it is coming regardless.(Enter current dilemma here).

In some cases, growth is 'stunted' or delayed in what are commonly called 'bedroom communities' (Enter PTC specifically and Fayette County in general here) people live there in a simple uncluttered environment, in a multitude of subdivisions while working elsewhere.

These communities try to hold down growth in check through strict building codes and 'unfriendly' ordinances and restrictions placed on businesses to keep the numbers of them low (no sales of liquor by the drink, high fees, building codes, sign ordinances, cost of licenses, etc., etc.).

This lack of a business base shifts the tax burden to the homeowners to fund necessary infrastructure and social services growth. This high number of people relative to the number of businesses also create ingress and egress issues. (Enter TDK type projects here).

This creates several other unique problems - just ONE example is how to build enough schools for all the kids from these homes (remember - your population is large but your business tax level is low) without the benefit of large business generating tax revenue and sales taxes. (Enter Fayette County Schools here - pre Pavillion, and pre Avenue). Even a SPLOST doesn't raise the revenue of the average city that is NOT a bedroom community due to the small retail business base.

So, add to this the government (and Billy Payne bringing in) section 8 apartments (more high density housing) and you have high property taxes and inflated tax appraisals (I can lower your taxes by saying your house is worth more since it is a percentage) to try to provide enough revenue for this growing 'bedroom' community. These high taxes are justified because it is a 'bedroom community' and you have a good quality of life...for the moment that is.

Enter business growth to provide revenue for the over burdened infrastructure, over crowded schools, underpaid teachers, more fire and police, more road repair and needed county facilities, road expansions (remember high density apartments and bedroom community)and traffic control all while appeasing a community clamoring for lower taxes..... the businesses now come to Fayette and PTC for a multitude of new reasons not the least of which is that – the move-ins (remember them?) like the size of the community but are - "… tired of driving to Clayton, Coweta, Spalding, Fulton, to shop and eat out!" and we need seriously now need revenue but "Taxes are too high".

Businesses come, (enter Pavillion, Avenue, O'Charley's, Wal-Mart, Penny's, Longhorn - you get the idea) some despite tough standards, and some that are invited to help relieve the tax burden ....and more people follow.... now the bedroom community is now just a regular community with a severely lagging infrastructure, high tax rates, overpriced houses, rapid new growth, increased local workforce, higher demand for low cost high density (apartment) housing for all the new workers in these food and retail businesses and now those who were here and wanted a bedroom community the size it ‘was’ (enter stroll down memory lane here) are wringing hands, yelling that the ship is sinking and blaming politicians when the reality is - a bedroom community can only be a bedroom community for a limited amount of time without being encompassed by heavy traffic, high property taxes, high home costs and potentially high crime. (Enter Decatur example here).

We now have a former bedroom community, in the stage of rapid growth, with and expanding tax base, a rapid influx of businesses, an ever increasing transient population and an under developed infrastructure with serious ingress and egress issues. You may undergo short term decreases in property values, you property taxes should stay the same or decrease. Appreciation should slow but eventually your property could become worth much more due to the growth once you reach a capacity and create scarcity."

Not sure which wrote how much of that explanation, but is is 100% right on accurate. The whiners - chief whiner saveourcity - should print that out and tape it to their screen for easy reference.

There have been many steps taken along the way to Peachtree City's growth to its current size and the decisions that were made by our then leaders were mostly correct and as you point out - pretty much irreversible once those decisions are made. And I'd sure rather have what we do than to be a stagnating bedroom community.

Live with it whiners - or move. Don't think you have the power to reverse the momentum of almost 50 years of growth - or at least 30 years of real controlled growth thru the stages you described. And as always, whiners - where were you when the hard decisions were made? On city council? Planning commission? In the audience? On the sidelines?
meow

FYI, a non sequitur means that something just does not follow. For example here is basically their argument: "Tens of thousands of people are moving to the Atlanta area every year, therefore PTC should just accept the fact and build a taxpayer funded TDK bridge so that 86,000 vehicle trips per day can be generated from the new City of Mcintosh and routed into the heart of our city."

Another example of the current insane Non Sequitur argument: "Since we live in one of the 10 top communities in America, we just need to go ahead and realize that everyone wants to live here. Therefore we should allow some Coweta developers to build a city practically inside our city limits, fund an access highway and bridge to collect their traffic, but not require them to give us a single dollar of property or sales tax collected in their new city."

That was two years ago. I doubt that is an honor we will ever be burdened with again.

Save our city, you need to get your escape plan in order, and give up this fight. Ride along with the sheriff's dept. and you will see that we already are riverdale. It's too late give it up.

Money Mag. Best Places to Live 2006

Maybe if we had developed a little more.

..good men do nothing. Even if Burke didn't really say that, it is very good!

Skyspy: I don't need an escape plan. I would rather fight the TDK profiteers than give up our wonderful city to a future traffic hell. We have a few cynics (that don't live in PTC) and TDK profiteers that blog on this site (good-ole-boy Enema, the dislexyic Latin "scholar" Mark, perennially morose Mudkitten), but this struggle is definitely not over. The profiteers have made significant headway, as they were operating in the dark (probably the proverbial smoke filled back room), but someone has turned on the lights!! There are some surprises awaiting them.

Thank you sooo much for telling us the meaning of words. We are all ignorant and rely on you to clarify our flawed logic (and the meaning of and Latin terms that we happen across). Here is your assertion of my (our) statement :"Tens of thousands of people are moving to the Atlanta area every year, therefore PTC should just accept the fact and build a taxpayer funded TDK bridge so that 86,000 vehicle trips per day can be generated from the new City of Mcintosh and routed into the heart of our city."

Of course NONE of that was ever stated by anyone here, certainly not by me or found in the copy I posted by Enigma, but allow me to opīnārī (or opine for non-latin speakers) on your assertion that an increase in population does not lead to an expansion of infrastructure (in general) and highway access (to big box retailers) specifically. It has been said that if you build it, they will come and if they come, that's an increase in traffic.

Although no assertion was ever made that an increase in the population in another city (in your example the Atlanta area) impacted PTC (in your example Coweta and PTC). It is the influx of people in to PTC and Coweta (did you get the city names this time?) that are creating an unsustainable burden on the infrastructure (That means the the fundamental facilities and systems serving a country, city, or area, as transportation and communication systems, power plants, and schools)(say it: in-fra-structure).

HERE where we residents and commuters suffer with ingress (from the Latin ingressus - to enter)and egress (from the Latin égressus - going out of)issues to due the increase in OUR population and OUR commuters with the same maximum flow rate on OUR highways. The PLANNED community of McIntish Woods will compound the problems and further accelerate the need for improved flow capacity.

You may not have noticed, since you seem a bit dull, but every growing city has infrastructure growth on a constant basis. Perhaps, since you like to consider Atlanta area in your erroneously attributed examples, you have noticed that road construction in and aound Atlanta for the last, say, 40 years or so?

Regardless, I have wasted enough of my time trying to help you understand why roads are expanded in communities of growth and how growth affects traffic, business, and infrastructure.

The problem isn't the explaination, the problem is we are explaining it to a dolt.

DUH!!! I was in the process of composing the EXACT rebuttal.

Kudo's and thank you. You said it beautifully, perfectly, succinctly(Latin root? Not sure) - whatever, and exactly.

How clear is this pending disaster?

I think we have all wasted enough time trying to explain what "Save Our City" either to refuses to hear or is to obtuse to comprehend.

I think it's now time to ignore the whiny little rants from her - at least for me.

Pending disaster is right - and with 'pristine lucidity' is how I would describe it. Maybe "Save Our City" will tell me what that means 'cause i jest made it up.

The TDK extension is but ONE of many developments that have either already occurred (recall the stroll down memory lane you so crassly criticized?) or are yet to come to fruition (like in this instance - Coweta addressing growth to your dismay).

As was eloquently stated to you in another blog - "you cannot close the door behind you when you get here" although it is clear you thought you could (now - you are building a memory lane).

Obviously, you remain ignorant to the processes and consequences of growth despite being told that by many and explained in simplistic detail by at least two of us. Either that, or, as I suspect, you just don't want to hear the truth.

Let me over, over-simplify: Get over it – just like we had to do when you moved here. You don’t like it growing? Then leave – please - try to find a city that isn't growing and good luck.
(I hear Detroit hasn't grown in quite a while.)

Did you mean the Mistress of the spuriously ignorant? Not that I am splitting hairs in such an informal blog - but just curious what you meant? Well said by the way - I think we are all on the same page!

... having read more of her diatribe I realize you were right all along Mark. She isn't pretending ... she really is an idiot.

She also has a fixation with spelling and grammer - looks like a teacher crying about the very growth that provided her a job.

Go figure...oh, and thanks for trying to explain it to her!

..you meant to say that I am the "mistress of spurious logic"...
I'll be glad to help you with your writing skills any time.

You don't use logic so that's not it. Spurious (not genuine, authentic, or true; not from the claimed, pretended, or proper source; counterfeit)ignorance (lack of knowledge, learning, information) would mean you are, to use plain language - playing stupid.

Of course, I don't think you are playing ... but in the kindness of his heart, I guess he does.

I'll be glad to help you with your definitions and understanding if you need me to Save Our City.

The word "spurious" is an adjective that is modifying "logic"...meaning that it is not a genuine logic - - this is the insult Enigma wanted to use. The use of "spurious
ignorance" would actually be saying that someone is NOT ignorant. Kind of like the double negative.

PS did you go to college?

... would mean you are playing stupid... I feel sure he is wrong on both counts; however, you will have to see what his response is to clarify his statements.

Uh - Yes, I did go to college...in fact, I graduated with honors four times ... is that somehow relevant to this discussion?

I have always used 'spurious' with 'correlation' (since the days of my very first research and statistics classes) so it's an interesting choice of words. Spurious correlation is commonly used when describing a false relationship between two variables (e.g. Rape increases when Ice Cream sales increase- one has nothing to do with the other but the statement is true nonetheless- you see, both increase in the summer which is directly and appropriately related to both).

Regardless, what should have been said, if he wishes to give you the benefit of the doubt, is that you are 'spuriously (adverb) ignorant'. This adverb modifying an adjective would be grammatically equivalent to saying that you are 'extremely stupid' or 'seriously ill' or 'obsessive compulsive'. Are you seeing a pattern here?

Actually, given the responses to your blogs, I would take the underhanded compliment by Enigma and the 'benefit of the doubt' since you are not receiving any kudos from your contemporaries in bloggersville.

As for being college educated, please tell me that you are not!

"Yes, I did go to college...in fact, I graduated with honors four times ... is that somehow relevent to this discussion?"

BTW, relevant is spelled with an "a"

Harvard College, I'm sure.

If you would point out what is misspelled, I will be glad to study the word for you so I do not repeat the error.

Upsetting you is the last thing I would ever want to do!

Then the TDK project willl be in pefect harmony with your zen. I guess I could cut and paste from word....but why? You aren't worth the trouble

BTW, what is that guy doing on the tricycle riding in front of the M-1's?

Are we informal or formal here? I'm confused! Are you going to split hairs in one blog and use Internet shorthand in the same thread? God forbid someone have a typo or a spelling error. That makes them ignorant I suppose.

No wonder you hate that they are making money hand over fist in the growth of PTC while you look for spelling errors in a school somewhere and wringing your hands! Have you caught any dangling participles lately? Ha!

At any rate, stick with English and leave real estate and growth and development to those of us who understand it.

That's actually Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid al-Tikriti in an escape attempt. It seems that he is in an overcrowded area and wants desperately for it to be the same as it 'used to be'. He is leaving to find another area that is like Baghdad 'used to be'.

I guess he realizes that "the times, they are a-changin'"(sic)
(Bob Dylan).

Saddam to be hanged by Sunday: Ex-dictator’s execution expected to be carried out by start of Eid holiday...before sundown Saturday evening