So, that's it, is it Jeff? By raising this question I'm advocating total war with all critical regimes of the US?

What I was actually trying to do was pose a serious question, because the point has been made that Bush can't go around advocating democracy, only to reject the results of democratic elections, vis a vis Hamas.

My point was that although democratic elections are a good that should be advocated, their results still bear scrutiny and that we are not obligated to tolerate those results. NOt tolerating doesn't automatically mean waging war; it can also be as simple as not negotiating, or placing conditions on negotiations.

But, I think I understand you better now.

That was a very funny post! Let us assume that we a not going to "tolerate those results." What if they don't want to negotiate with us either, with or without conditions. What then if not war? I don't think any of the countries I named are breaking down our door for negotiations. If you are not going to "tolerate" them then what are you going to do?

We are about to "not tolerate" another democracy that Bush has bragged about for months---Iraq. We are abandoning west Iraq due to no progress, pulling them into Baghdad to overthrow everyone again. Wonderful!!!

And I know I understand you, Dollar.

"I suspect that that core must be the notion of the dignity of the individual citizen. It is possible for a "democratic" vote to conflict with such dignity, and, when that happens, then perhaps such a vote is invalidated and justifiably nullified either from within or without."

I can't distinguish from your analogy whether your talking about politics in general or the PTC City Council's burning desire to bailout the Tennis Center.

I would not want to imply that one could draw an analogy between our beloved Mayor and Hitler.

Albeit, Hitler wasn't a puppet, neither seems to have the best interests of their "citizens" in mind when making decisions.

I will agree that the Logsdon regime has been irresponsible, but any comparisons to Hitler would be out of line.

The very fact that Logsdon would send a press release the night before Thanksgiving for a meeting the following Wednesday (so as to keep the press from alerting the public in time) is proof that deception is alive and well in our slice of democracy.

Yes, you have corruption and the restriction of freedoms in non-democratic states. However, the Development Authority/Tennis Center situation is a perfect example that such things can breed and thrive in any environment.

I would dare not say Vladimir Putin is the only person capable turning back democratic freedoms. Some in Corporate America and even our local government pursue their self interest above the best interests of society. Restricting freedoms is a great tool to that end.

I'm not sure what to say.

Any such analogy strike me as far from obvious.

I thought for a moment that I had posted on the wrong thread. Then I thought that perhaps you had done so.

But maybe I'm missing something (?)

I was referring to your comment of, "It is possible for a "democratic" vote to conflict with such dignity...".

Although the current PTC City Council was democratically elected, their "dignity" seems to be lacking in many of the decisions they make.

The voice of the citizen appears to have been drowned out by the voice of money. As the PTC City Council members were elected to dutifully represent the "citizens" of PTC we "citizens" seem to have taken a back seat to "other" interests.