I understood you completely. I knew that you were talking about two different kids. My response is the same. Taking advantage is taking advantage. No matter whether they are on welfare or not!
different voice

Responding to your comment about being greedy.... You damn right I am as greedy as the loser mooching off of the system for the welfare checks so you better go check on them legs!! Stop bashing the people who are hard working citizens and go to your local WIC clinic and look at all those able moochers sitting in the lobby living on our dime! While your at it get a reality check!!

You are right. There is greed on both sides of this discussion. I am glad you at least recognize that you are as greedy as those you accuse. It is a good first step. Maybe the empathy will come later.

This is my last posting to you about this - so go ahead and enjoy your last word. I won't be reading it. I choose not to spend my time in a discussion void of empathy.

different voice

I suppose we will never give up on the idea that "preachers, fathers, reverends, and such," are far above the "flock." They come from the same barrell as everyone else. It is a trade they learn, otherwise they would have met the "call."
These guys happen because we want them to happen. The safety we feel in numbers is astounding. Believe me, if you don't know whether you are doing your best with or without these guys, you just don't know, then. They won't protect you.

different voice

Of course we are all entitled to understand God in our own ways.
But my understanding of God is that time and time again God helps those who CAN'T help themselves and asks us to do the same. My understanding of divine love and grace is that is comes without our earning it. It is not ever up to me to decide who deserves or doesn't deserve that gift. And it certainly isn't up to me to sit in judgment of others.

I am saddened by the number of people who have to rely so much on the government - but choose not to blame them or hold them in contempt for their situation. We are all to blame for the system as it is. We all take part in consumerism and greed and people who are already on the lower end of the economic system take the hardest hit. If all of you out there spewing out hate and disgust could just take a look at the mirror and see what you could do to help the situation. There are people in this country who have chosen to leave their comfortable lifestyles to live among the welfare communities and try to help them find a better way. Are you willing to do that? I am not sure I am - and until I am - I just can't sit in judgment of people I don't know.

Praying for the end of hate,

differentvoice

Well, I don't have anything profound to say.

But I'll report that my wife and I have felt the tug to help people who claim to be homeless and destitute. My only reservation has been that I don't want to hand some guy some money so that he can go buy drugs or alcohol with it. So we have insisted on paying for an actual *meal* for someone who claims to be down and out. I've taken people to restaurants and told them to order whatever they want. I won't hand out cash.

One of the most dramatic incidents was a couple of years ago. We were at the Mellow Mushroom in Virginia Highlands. We were sitting outside, enjoying pizza and beer. I noticed a guy digging through one of the garbage cans out on the sidewalk. He found some discarded food, pulled it out, and was eating it. I said, "Man, don't do that. Let me give you some of mine!" Over the fence, I handed him a slice of pizza still warm from the oven. He went over, sat down, and (I tried to be inconspicuous, but watched as well as I could) seemed to relish every bite. When he finished, I offered another. Same thing. *After* he had had his fill, he said "God bless you for your kindness" and went on his way.

I was thus treated like some kind of saint because I relinquished two measley slices of pizza.

I'll never know this guy's story. What I *do* know, is that I was privileged in this small way to stand in and help someone out. Maybe he is a professional pizza-slice-con-artist who knows how to bilk people like me out of their surplus food. I doubt it. But even so, I had the opportunity to display the smallest bit of grace, and I cannot but think that such occasions may have lasting good effects.

Image: Child's author Bill Peet's "Whingdingdilly"

Wasn't that just the most awesome feeling? I remember a few years ago, I was visiting some relatives out of state. While we were out driving, we came across a family (mom, dad and 3 children)sitting in the dirt on an empty lot. I made my sister drive to the nearest McDonald's (only place open at that time) and I purchased like $20.00 worth of burgers, fries and drinks. I returned to were the family was and handed them the food. You could see true appreciation in the mom and dad's faces. The smiles on the childrens faces, I will never forget.

Wow, what a concept. Makes me proud to be a green-libertarian!!

Garrett M Hayes for governor!!

Stirring the pot-
MainFrame

Hmmmmmm.....you say you are sick of people who take advantage of others......?!
Reeeeaaaaallllly.....how about the people who choose not to work.....and get a free ride off of the taxpayers???? Are you sick of those people taking advantage of a system? Well are you?
Give them your money if you think they are so worthy. I will continue to give my money to the Humane Society.

I would never consider giving up everything I have worked for to help welfare freeloaders.

I worked 2 jobs for 6 yrs after college. I had to go back to school for for extra training to get to where I am today.

Amazingly enough 6 figures a year after taxes didn't just fall out of the sky. I had to work for it. It wasn't just handed to me.

Your comment about mandatory sterilization for anyone getting help from the government was cold and uncalled for. You'd change your tune if you ever found yourself in trouble. Also, "spawning" is not the verb to use if you're talking about human birth. I dare you to look in the eyes of any kindergartener and tell them they were a mistake.

Cold yes,......uncalled for ....not...not when my tax dollar is used.

No child is a mistake when their parents can pay for them. When I have to pay for them..............

What cracks me up about PTCJEnn and differentvoice is that they get all pissed off about giving a few poor children some food, but I don't see any posts from them demanding an end to corporate welfare. Welfare for needy families is less than one percent of your federal tax dollars. Meanwhile we give billions to the oil industry, who already are making RECORD PROFITS. Defense department accountability is piss poor. In addition, there have been tens of thousands of earmarks on the congressional bills for pet projects that are inapporpriate.

Yes, to gripe about a few poor people getting a few of your pennies while ignoring the rich people stealing some of your dollars is, in my opinion, shameful.

different voice
If you will read my blog carefully - I too was upset by the posts of those griping about welfare. And in my post i DO blame the system - not the people. I am not griping about giving to others - I originally posted because I disagreed with all the people making their nasty comments. I think that you are looking at the headline not the submitted by to choose who you are griping at. You will notice that my post and one by ptcJenn actually support your position. I think your beef is with skyspy (sp?) and some others.

Please read carefully before you gripe at someone. Thanks!

Meanwhile we give billions to the oil industry, who already are making RECORD PROFITS.

Would you explain or preferably show me where I can access unbiased information on the statement you made above. I admit I am ignorant to what you have just stated. I do know the Feds are extremely pleased with their take on the RECORD PROFITS. Thanks in advance.

Here's a link for you Git Real

Congress gave 14.5 Billion dollars in energy tax credits in 2005, something like 2 billion directly to oil companies.

Here's another answer to the same question.

Bloomberg

I appreciate those links and Bloomberg is pretty reliable and unbiased source. I'll study those out.

I'll chime in then: one of the reasons I found it so distasteful that they were complaining about the welfare recipients (and am I the only one who finds it funny that in forums like this, everyone suddenly personally knows the lady that had extra kids for the extra food stamps or whatever?) is that there is so much more money wasted by our government. If skyspy is angry about the welfare mom, I better not offer him(her)any of my holiday baking made with govt. subsidized sugar and flour. Why, my car isn't even worth $10k and that farmer got a $100k tractor practically free! Don't even get me started on worthless USDA poultry inspectors and how much $ is spent by the good folks at Pueblo Colorado printing and mailing consumer information brochures. You can say that money spread around by the government to stuff like this finds its way back into the economy, but surely you see the same is true of government aid. That money goes into the tills at grocery stores and utility companies etc. just as much as the extra money that you save on your cheaper sugar and corn etc. does. Money doesn't disappear when it's spent, and your taxes come back to you in many forms besides your eagerly anticipated 'refund' every spring (if you get one). If you are upset about taxes, do like I did and support the Fair Tax by writing officials. If you want to end domestic job loss, vote with your wallet and buy US made goods. There are lots of things you can do to make the world better.

So anyway, you made an excellent point Southside Steve, one I agree with. Except for the oil thing, they don't steal that money, we all give it to them when we fill up the gas tank again - but that's a whole other unrelated thread and I really don't feel like getting into it. I was just upset about how low the discourse sank with the welfare comments, I of course know there's a lot of waste in that system but as the saying goes 'There but for the grace of God...'

Where can I sign up. I own a farm out West and my Dad has a large farm/ranch. With all of the taxes we pay I'd really like to know where I can sign up for that $100K tractor.

And while you're at it can you tell me where I can get some government aid to subsidize my business. I feel like I have to work way to hard to get the return I do.

Section 179 of the IRS code used to allow a tax credit of $100K for heavy vehicles (including SUVs). They cut that down to $25K in 2004, but if you have a smart accountant you can trade in your $25K tractor for a $50K tractor in year two, $75K tractor in year three and $100K tractor in year four and have a nice lil tractor paid for by George W. Bush's irresponsible tax policy.

I've used the deduction to buy an SUV for bidness.

Before composing this note, I reread Section 179 of the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26, US Code).

There is a difference between a tax credit and a deduction from income. IRC Section 179 allows a business person to deduct (instead of depreciate) the cost of capital property from his/her gross income. In essence, this section allows a businessman to accelerate his deductions (which would otherwise be stretched out over many years as depreciation). There is no tax give-away, as in "tax credit."

This business about having the US government pay for your tractor is so much baloney. It is because of such gross distortions of our tax laws that we have people dumb enough to declare their support for the Fair Tax.

Tell the truth, or hush up. Don't go out misleading the public with false information.