Can't we disagree without being disagreeable?

ArmyMAJretired's picture

Riddle me this, when did strong beliefs and passionate views require name calling and negativity to make your point?

I admit that when I read a nasty name calling posting, I feel the need to respond in kind.

Why does Jeff Carter insult the president? Why does Tim Parker compare him to King George?

In the words of Rodney King, can't we all just get along? If not why is the name calling necessary? Just because Howard Dean and crew shout insults do all on his side need to? Has Kenneth Melman insulted or attacked Harry Reid?

Why the anger?

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JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Thu, 09/07/2006 - 7:28pm.

I am not mad at y'all bloggers, I just want you to uphold your end of the argument with facts and not just political blather. And since you all are anonymous and I am not, I feel I have some liberty to attack your opinions without seeming to attack you personally, which I would never do. If we met socially, I hope and believe that you would find me charming, polite and deferential. Let me point to a specific case where I think you are expressing no facts just partisan bull, parroting the right-wing talking points. In a previous post, you wrote the following:

“In their zeal to smear the president they have launched a witch hunt at the White House, when the special prosecutor knew the Undersecretary of defense leaked a non covert agengts name because her lying husband published his unqualified opinions in the NY Tiimes to help defeat the president!”

Valerie Plame was one of the CIA’s most clandestine employees, a nonofficial covert officer in charge of the Joint Task Force on Iraq operations group vetting intelligence from Iraqi defectors and searching for WMDs and Joseph Wilson was a US diplomat from 1976 until 1998 working in Africa including being Ambassador to Gabon. He was also the acting Ambassador to Iraq when Iraq invaded Kuwait and served from 1997 to 1998 as Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council coordinating of U.S. policy to the 48 countries of sub-Saharan Africa. As you know, I have given you references for my sources of this information. The CIA claimed she was covert and it was the CIA’s official complaint which started the whole investigation.

Except by citing purely partisan political talking points, can you cite any confirmable facts or sources that Plame was non-covert, that her husband lied in his NY Times op-ed article and do you have any support for explaining your contention that he was unqualified? Also, can you tell be who the “they” was that started the witch hunt when the Special Prosecutor, a life-long Republican, was appointed by the Justice Department controlled completely by Republicans?

I've heard all of this before about the Wilsons. Claims with no substantiation. And I believe the reason that you contend it so strongly is that the revelation of a covert CIA agent's name is despicable and it endangers them and their associates and harms the country. To avoid confronting that reality, harmful and shameful to your party, it is more convenient for you Republicans to claim that Plame was not covert and that Wilson was unqualified regardless of any facts. Furthermore, I very strongly suspect that the majority of Republicans are secretly horrified that y'all revealed this highly classified information and blew the agents cover and desperately wish that the Democrats had done it. I can only imagine the partisan outcry from Republicans had that been the case.

Submitted by OldSchoolFootball on Fri, 09/08/2006 - 1:57pm.

Richard Armitage, the anti-war step-n-fetchit for Colin Powell admitted leaking the information.

He will not be prosecuted because Fitzgerald does not feel he committed a crime (outing a covert CIA agent).

Argue with Fitzgerald as to whether Plame was a covert agent, it was his three year witch hunt that netted Scooter 'the criminal' Libby.


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Fri, 09/08/2006 - 6:51pm.

My point was that claiming Plame was non-covert and Wilson was a liar was entirely political, expressing partisan politics without a shred of evidence. Whoever outed her doesn't change that a bit. Whether or not it was a crime doesn't change it a bit and I have never said that it was. The point, and my question, again, is what was the basis for claiming Plame was not covert and that Joe Wilson was lying.

Incidentaly, I believe that Libby was indicted for exactly the same charge that Clinton was impeached for. I'm just guessing that you probably did not support Clinton against these charges and you did not put the "criminal" part in quotes when you wrote about him years ago (if you did, I didn't see it, I'm just speculating).

Its all partisan politics. You get to say whatever you want but if I don't buy the claptrap then its somehow a horrible thing. All I'm asking for is some facts to back up your talking points.

The step-n-fetchit comment threw me a little. I thought Armitage was a mainstream Republican.

Submitted by dopplerobserver on Sat, 09/09/2006 - 5:48am.

The "Yellowcake" comments by President Bush in his speech to Congress, that Saddam had acquired such from "Africa," was simply
a suggestive comment without any proof. Never in a million years did anyone at the state department think Wilson would even think about saying the President was wrong. It just isn't done by anyone in government, usually, without a severe penalty. The fact is we simply do not trust the UN, nor do we want it. We, meaning the current administration and government. Bush had no idea that many of the Iraqi people would resist our setting up our form of government there. Neither did the Secretary of State or Defense--people to whom he listens unfortunately. There were plenty of people around who could have told him exactly what would happen (as it has) but his group was not interested in such advice. It is the missing gravitas that they were accused of lacking before they were elected. It might be better if you were to let most of these ignoramuses on here argue with each other and you ignore them.

Submitted by OldSchoolFootball on Thu, 09/07/2006 - 10:00am.

Learned liberal behavior Major ..... don't fault them for not being able to think for themselves. Emotive thinkers have always turned arguments personal when they run out of useful, logical information. What really bothers me is how a person can take one small bit of somewhat accurate information and ignore the rest of the information related to it completely. Has the left and the national media, The Democratic 'Leadership', and the AJC apologized to Karl Rove yet? By the way, according to her husband, Valarie Plame-Wilson is a CIA opreative....shhhh! Please, for your own sanity's sake, stop trying to make emotive thinkers (Liberals) use reason!! Oh, and while I have your attention, Paula Jones is just trailer trash, the US is the cause of all of the worlds problems, Bush caused gas prices to rise (they are falling now only because he is not not paying attention to them) and Rush Limbaugh kept Ray Nagin from allowing those buses to be used to evacuate all of those who so eagerly tried to leave the week before Hurricane Katrina (which, as we all know, was a storm devised by Karl Rove!)Thought you might want to know as we approach the anniversary of the 9/11 inside job. Come on Major, you're talking about the party of Nancy Pelosi, Hillary "Rose Law Firm" Rodham-Clinton, Cynthia McKinney, Shelia Jackson-Lee (you know "is the Mars rover going where we put the flag?" - Uh, no ma'am that was the moon.) - enough said?? Let them rant and rave ...... they are still suffering from "selective recount disorder".

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