what he is doing.. I believe I said he is "going to sign" the bill.

He is finally writting his own version.. combining the two.. Then this will go through the rec process.

Supposedly it is going to be available on the internet for 3 days..Next week.

He is planning to have it ready to sign March 1st.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

*

You will have to purchase health insurance or face financial penalties...
So, because I cannot afford health insurance (my last quote was more than my house payment and car payment combined) the government will tax me for it...making me even less able to afford to purchase it.
Basically, this bill will cause me to file bankruptcy. I will not be able to pay the astronomical cost of my health insurance unless I default on all my other bills, incurred before this law will be passed.
How is this legal under the Constitution?
I will work to pay for health insurance...and if I'm lucky, pay my house and car note (if I get to keep my house and car after bankruptcy), and that will pretty much take care of my salary. Oh, yeah, I'll also get to pay my federal taxes and my state taxes and my mandated auto insurance, maybe be able to scrape up enough for electricity and phone bill...but not groceries, not food for my animals, I'll have to rehome them...no more books, no more internet, no crafts or work on my home, no sewing or crocheting, no classes, no gardening...in other words, nothing that makes my life worth living.
This bill may not take my life and liberty away...but it will darn sure end any pursuit of happiness.

Even those of us who are paying out the A$$ for insurance are having trouble. I went to yet another doctor appointment yesterday for my "condition" (Hidradenitis Suppurativa). I was given 3 options: a) continue suffering b) have surgery which would entail skin graphing and much pain or c) take this highly dangerous and expensive drug - Accutane.

I consulted with the pharmacist and my cost (with insurance) for the Accutane is $280 for a one month supply of a drug that I will need to take 6 months on 6 months off and so on... Well, I can't afford $280 for a drug that has a slim chance of curing the condition but could cause brain swelling, liver failure, and blindness!!!

Reform needs to begin with pharmacuticals.

Have a great weekend,

Shannon Dawn

"The most beautiful things in life cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart." - Helen Keller

Maddening, isn't it?
-------------------------------------------
Caution - The Surgeon General has determined that constant blogging is an addiction that can cause a sedentary life style.

DM is doing her thing..

"Poll: Most Americans think Congress should start over on healthcare
By Jeffrey Young - 02/16/10 12:17 PM ET
In a brutal assessment of the Democratically authored healthcare reform bills pending in Congress and the party's approach to healthcare, more than half of the respondents to a new Zogby International-University of Texas Health Science Center poll said that lawmakers should start from scratch.

Of the more than 2,500 people surveyed from Jan. 29 to Feb. 1, 57 percent agreed with a statement that Congress should start over — which is exactly what Republicans are demanding and what President Barack Obama insists he will not do." The Hill

"President Obama this week called for a televised bipartisan summit to get his health care reform plan back on track, but 61% of U.S. voters say Congress should scrap that plan and start all over again.
A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds just 28% who think it is better to build on the health care plan that has been working its way through the House and Senate.

Moreover, 56.4 percent of people indicated they would prefer Congress to tackle healthcare reform on a step-by-step basis, not take the comprehensive approach as embodied in the legislation that passed the House and Senate last year but has stalled fore the past month."Rasmussen

"A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey also indicates that nearly half the public, 48 percent, would like federal lawmakers to start work on an entirely new bill, and 21 percent feel Congress should stop working an any bills that would change the country's health care system."

Want to re-load and try again..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Why don't you allow the 'readers' to see the entire article that you reference? Just taking bits and pieces from articles is manipulative at best. My thing is to let people read what is being written from different sources - and make up their own minds about the 'truth'. I'm not trying to say you are right or wrong. No need to reload - but can you link us to your references? Thanks.

No one really looks at the links DM..

I reference the source.. If you want to look at it be my guest..

I post the pertinent material. If you are saying I cherry pick.. then please call me out.. Pull out the opposing reference material. Show the evidence. You will not be able to do so..

Now re-load and try again.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

You're lazy - but that's all right. You don't take the time to look at the links - some people do. I'm probably the only one who will respond to this. . . maybe not.

You’re old..

Now that we have mutually insulted each other I can categorically state I don't care.

If you haven’t noticed let me point out that you fail many times to source your info.. So I will make a deal with you.. I will link every post to info used if you will..

DEAL?

Remember the "440" argument..? I linked every source you linked a source that agreed with me.. and yet you claimed I was just spinning..? If someone already has their mind made up it does not matter the source.. DM.

If some one is really interested they can discover the info themselves. We are not convincing anyone here. We are just tilting at windmills.

btw.. Since you questioned rather the Public wants this and I gave you 3 different polls.. do you have an opinion now?

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Question 2) 77% favor public option. Question 6)51% favor Obama's plan.

Steve, you have mentioned, several times, that those in other countries that have the public option don't like it. Polls say different there too.

89.9% of Brits would rather be treated under their system of National Healthcare.

Be sure to read the Brits' blog entries under the healthcare survey. Here are my two favourite:

Anscombe

From what I can gather, it seems that this is what you get with an undereducated (in the main) population of people who unquestioningly swallow rightwing propaganda - we`re getting there too folks, just wait and see if we don`t!

Just giving another perspective that isn't usually offered round these parts.

Hack

An opposing viewpoint..

Rasmussen Reports
2* Would it be a good idea to set up a government health insurance company to compete with private health insurance companies?
35% Yes
50% No
15% Not sure

Rasmussen and CBS polls differ greatly on public option and there is a reason why.. Link

Gallup

More Americans now say it is not the federal government's responsibility to make sure all Americans have healthcare coverage (50%) than say it is (47%). This is a first since Gallup began tracking this question, and a significant shift from as recently as three years ago, when two-thirds said ensuring healthcare coverage was the government's responsibility.

and on the UK healthcare..

“The goal of socialized health care is not to provide exceptional health care to the few but to provide "cost-effective" health care to everyone. In theory this may be a worthy goal, but how does it work in the real world?
The UK's National Health Service was created in 1948 and you would think by now they would have their act together but as any regular reader of this website knows, no one can outdo the British when it comes to health care horror stories. Here are just a few examples:”

Inequities in socialized health care.. Follow the embedded links for the real storys

So let me get this straight… The Government can’t efficiently run the post office, the school system, or the DMV. It can’t police our borders properly, it failed to prevent the S & L crisis,9/11, the dot-com bubble, the housing collapse and the credit crisis. Its IRS created a fully in-comprehensible 78,000-page tax code and its Congress writes bills so long that no one has the time to read them-but I should still trust it to make personal decisions for me against my will?- I think I will pass.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

You really mean "The people in the poll I chose to cherry pick from. I could provide link after link on articles that speak of the answers achieved based on the questions asked, but you know that. You know that if you ask,

"Should health insurance costs outpace inflation," most will not say, sure.

If you ask, "Should people be excluded for pre-existing conditions," you will not hear a resounding "yes."

If you ask, "Should policies be portable interstate," we know the answer we will get.

But let's not pretend to speak for The American people.

Cheers

Hack

ps: DM, got the links out of him

That's a quote from their article.

I would rather trust Rasmussen or Gallup before I would count on MSM
or the Huff and Puff.. but thats just me.

I think the American people have spoken fairly well lately. I mean Virginia, Illinois and Massachusetts speaks volumes.. don't you?

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

There was a time in the maybe not so distant past when *conservatives loved their country. Now you would think, with all the anti-govt rhetoric, we were our own enemy. Heck, the same *conservatives begging for job creation thought GM and Chrysler should have been parted out and sold off like Eastern Airlines. You stated:

"So let me get this straight… The Government can’t efficiently run the post office, the school system, or the DMV. It can’t police our borders properly, it failed to prevent the S & L crisis,9/11, the dot-com bubble, the housing collapse and the credit crisis. Its IRS created a fully in-comprehensible 78,000-page tax code and its Congress writes bills so long that no one has the time to read them-but I should still trust it to make personal decisions for me against my will?- I think I will pass.

Steve, besides a certain administration ignoring a PDB, how does the government do in protecting us against enemies foreign and domestic? Do you hold our military in contempt? Are they not GIs? What oh what is the G? Hmmmm?

Why do you think a company whos job it is to maximize profits will provide better care than an elected representative of the same G in GI?

Why do you loath your country?

Hack

You sure your not a Lawyer?

What a leap of logic you got going there hack..

You have to go from I am not for this Government take over of our Healthcare to "Why do you loath your country?"..

Why don't you really say what bugs you.. YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT THAT I CAN'T COUNTER...

You pull polls from left of center I pull from major noted polls and that ticks you off..

Facts are facts hack... So why don't you deflect do a little dance and keep on pumping and humping.. You are doing a great job...

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

You are squarely placed within a group of people who feel The Govt of the United States does no good.

In your opinion:

It can't educate our kids. ( Sorry Teachers of America)

Prevent terrorist attacks ( No kudos CIA, FBI, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines)

It can't secure our borders (Here's mud in your eyes Coast Guard, ICE, Border Patrol).

We can't run a Post Office (Sorry USPS, but ask Steve Lindsey what private company can deliver a letter for under 50 cents).

Our DMV is poor (Sorry to all of you folks who played a part in licensing my vehicles and my family's' drivers. We think you're doing your jobs in the King house).

Housing Collapse, S&L crisis, etc, etc.

And OF COURSE, attack the IRS. But the guy who flew his plane into the IRS is a lefty....even though people just like you, Steve, stoke the flames of government hatred.

Steve, who in the government have you not spat upon in your post? What makes us, a country made of people of all ethnicities and nationalities, different?

I would suggest it is the way we govern ourselves here in The US that makes us different from those other countries. Basically everything you just spat upon.

Own it Steve. Like Glenn Beck said, "We are headed for totalitarianism" in the minds of some. They just have to figure out how to stop this government, right?

You Tea Party guys want to keep so much secret; like the military folks being recruited to not stand in the way of a "revolution." That's what you stand for now, Steve.

I'm not mad at you, but man up and admit that you have become a "The U.S. Government is good for nothing" kind of guy.

Now excuse me while I smack my wife........ on the rear >:)

Hack

????

It's all good.. Government works so well..

You know HACK is a good nickname for you..

Go ahead paint with that broad brush.. Go ahead and spin that story that if I say we can't secure our borders I surely mean the MEN and WOMEN that try.. No it's not the GOVERNMENT.. at all it's the people..

Yep HACK pump it and Hump it... keep it up Francis..

When the Government stops listening to the people it is our responsibility to hold them accountable..

You will get very little support on this one HACK.. Calling all PROGRESSIVES... HACK needs help.. The Government is under attack...

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

I don't need any help today. Probably won't need it tomorrow either.

You are in denial of your own message:

"You have to go from I am not for this Government take over of our Healthcare to "Why do you loath your country?".."

Steve, we were talking healthcare before you brought up schools, the Post Office, Borders, IRS, etc. It must be a Tea Party involuntary reflex.

Good luck with the "The government sucks but the people in it are okay" argument. Or the "Our kids' education sucks but the teachers do a great job" argument.

And please tell me how far Fed X or UPS will get that Mother's Day card for 50 cents.

Hack

You think we have secure BORDERS?

You think the Post Office is efficient?

You think the Public School system is turning out a good product?

You think the DMV is a great place to visit?

You think the IRS and our Tax Structure is fair?

If you do .. you're alone in your world.. but that's ok take One paragraph out of my response which had nothing to do with the argument.. Just my opinion and run with that.. Why?

Because you have no argument that I can not counter with MAINSTREAM info.

40% of American self identify as CONSERVATIVE while only 21% as LIBERAL..

40% of Americans interviewed in national Gallup Poll surveys describe their political views as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 21% as liberal.

Face it you're on the LOSING side.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

But you think the "losing side" has The Senate, The House, and The Presidency

Hack

But with Progressive failures in Illinois, Virginia and Massachusetts and not to mention all of the Dems stepping down.. That hold is tenuous at best..

Which party do you support in 2010?

Some of the polls included in the average may be outdated since the latest poll for each of the pollsters are averaged in.

Pollster Democrat Republican
AVERAGE 42.0% 40.8%

Latest Obama State/National Polls

State Approve Disapprove
NAT'L AVG 46.4% 46.2%

"Republican candidates lead Democrats by nine points in the latest edition of the Generic Congressional Ballot.2/14/2010

The new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 45% would vote for their district’s Republican congressional candidate while 36% would opt for his or her Democratic opponent. Voter support for GOP congressional candidates is up one point from last week, while support for Democrats held steady." Rasmussen

Seems like the Dems are slipping Hack..

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

Brown helps Dems avoid filibuster.

Hack

Dems actually had a bill with TAX CUTS in it..

I thought Tax Cuts NEVER work?

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

And every day that goes by it looks better and better.

The 2 latest happenings are:

Glen Beck,s speech at CPAC where he abused the Republicans as much as the liberals. Incumbent do-nothing Republicans (and INMHO, the religous right) are 2 things that need to go away and virtually all the tea bag people and at least 1/3 of the moderates (aka Obama voters last time) will support new Republican candidates and end the nightmare.

Prezbo's arrogance on the health care / power grab bill preview to Thursday's "bi-partisan" meeting. Anyone with room temperature IQ can make up their own mind about the content of the proposed bill and the Obama showmanship and by week's end his poll numbers will be down near 40% - which is close to Siberia.

The religious right is 30% of the Party. If you kick them out and the defeat the incumbent Republicans, you'll need almost all of the moderates. The problem with that is that your supposing that the hard core conservatives that are left (as in remaining) can attract the moderates and that won't happen. You've either got to accept the religious right and most of the incumbents or lose. The elections will be won or lost by only 5%. You can't drive away large segments and win.

This individual (SL) has a need to be 'right'. Having a discussion with him is like riding a Merry-Go-Round - a ride to nowhere -except the discussion is 'no fun'. He gets so involved in being 'right' - that he makes no sense! Oh well . . . . Even when you agree with some of his points - he goes off on a tangent. I wonder if he's even read about Obama's proposed compromise offer between the Senate and House healthcare proposals - or is he ready to 'just say no'. The Republicans 'say' they'll be at the meeting. Let's hope all attend with the goal of HELPING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. When SL says that most Americans are happy with their healthcare plans - he is evidently not listening to even some of the posters on this blog. We all, who are fortunate to have 'good' health insurance plans - are witnessing the constant escalation of cost. Some regulation of private insurance premiums MUST be installed. And please, after COBRA runs out for those who lost their jobs and have no health care insurance - what are they going to do? They weren't lazy, under-educated, etc. - they were the victims of a failing economy.

"I wonder if he's even read about Obama's proposed compromise offer between the Senate and House healthcare proposals - or is he ready to 'just say no'. The Republicans 'say' they'll be at the meeting."

Don't get your hopes up too much DM. If you expect us to come into the game late and help you apply lipstick to the pig you guys created, it ain't gonna happen. There is precious little in either bill worth saving. If you pull the best cow pies out of the pasture, you still have you know what in your hands. (Enough barnyard references for you? It gets the point across though.)

Start over. Get serious about the costs, portability, and tort reform. Leave the entitlements, vote buying, and sweetheart deals in the toilet and watch it take off. I'm just sayin'.....

Take the time to glance at/read the President's Proposal" and then wonder why a group of intelligent men and women who have been elected to serve the American people can't negotiate and secure an affordable health care program for American citizens!

and then ask who gets wrapped up in being right...

I just present a logical and concise argument.. You use emotion..

You link to post that agree with me and somehow that's my fault..

Go figure..

You don't want to believe Rasmussen or Gallup.. No problem.

You don't want to believe that we don't want this madness.. No Problem.

You don't want to believe that Americans can take care of themselves better than the Government.. No Problem.. But just how is it that it's MY PROBLEM?

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

that a few others are interested in this discussion. It is great that the point of how questions are asked often determines the response has been clarified. The important thing is that each citizen should inform themselves on how the lack of some form of reform will affect them and their family - and then demand that unless this Congress does something to relieve the working family of the escalating cost of health care - many in this Congress will be among the 'un-employed'!

"The important thing is that each citizen should inform themselves on how the lack of some form of reform will affect them and their family"

You have to start with the premise that Americans are unhappy with their Healthcare...

" Despite ever-increasing healthcare costs and widespread dissatisfaction with the U.S. healthcare system, a majority of Americans remain satisfied with what they pay for their own healthcare, the quality of the healthcare they receive, and their healthcare coverage.

Gallup's annual Healthcare survey, conducted Nov. 11-14, finds 57% of Americans saying they are satisfied with the total cost they pay for their healthcare, while 39% are dissatisfied. These percentages have been quite stable in recent years, after a slight dip in reported satisfaction between 2001 (64%) and 2002 (58%)."

and that's your problem right there... THERE IS NO CRISIS.. It's just like the AGW scare.. A scare is all it is..

Some change is good.. We all agree we want some reforms.. Just not the Public Option, TAXPAYER PAID ABORTIONS and FORCED purchase of Insurance.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them. ~~Patrick Henry
"Illegitimus non Corborundum"

. .when the alternative is pretty obvious.
May all mankind achieve the destination - old.