Men of God and party politics

Father David Epps's picture

In the 1980s I became very active politically. I joined a party, supported candidates, attended party meetings, served as a delegate — and also learned how bitter politics can get, even at the local level.

After months of being on one side of a power struggle within the local party, during which time some people were hurt, others deposed, and some driven away, one woman looked at me and said, “How, as a man of the cloth, can you even be involved with this?”

I had no reply for her. She was right. I was out of my element.

It’s been a long time since I have been involved with the nuts and bolts of party politics and quite some time has elapsed since I endorsed a candidate. I still will take a strong stand on moral and biblical issues either in sermons or in writing, but I have come to the conclusion that it is unwise for me to denigrate the office of priest/pastor by engaging in the mud-wrestling that is politics.

For all the good that the Rev. Jeremiah Wright may have done for the poor and for people of color, he will forever be remembered for the caustic and controversial remarks made from his pulpit — remarks that would likely have remained unknown had he not be prominent in supporting a candidate for president.

Likewise will Father Michael Pfleger be linked to a sermon that some have characterized as sexist and anti-white. Again, the Catholic priest was active in supporting a particular candidate for President of the United States.

On the other side of the political battlefield, two prominent clergymen are finding that the world-wide attention they are receiving is not the kind to which they are accustomed.

Catholic League president Bill Donahue has said that the Rev. John Hagee “... called my religion ‘The Great Whore,’ the ‘apostate church,’ the ‘anti-Christ’ and a ‘false cult system.’” Pastor Hagee’s remarks became widely known after he endorsed a candidate for president.

Pastor Rod Parsley, during a 2005 sermon, called Islam “the greatest religious enemy of our civilization and the world,” claiming that the historic mission of America is to see “this false religion destroyed.” Parsley said, “The fact is that ... America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed. After Parsley endorsed a candidate for president, his remarks were broadcast around the world.

Both Hagee and Parsley are mega-church pastors and television evangelists who, like Wright and Pfleger, have now discovered that when the Church gets into bed with politics, the Church nearly always loses.

On the other hand, the Rev. Billy Graham and Mother Teresa of Calcutta both had great influence with world leaders, even daring to rebuke them if they believed such an action was necessary.

Graham only once allied himself closely to a candidate and later felt betrayed by that man’s lack of integrity. While he was available as a spiritual counselor to many leaders, he never again compromised his role as a man of God by stooping to play the political game.

Billy Graham and Mother Teresa both have a lasting legacy of positive good, and will be remembered for being people of Christ-like character and faith. It now remains to be seen whether Wright, Pfleger, Hagee, and Parsley may have exchanged their own spiritual birthright for a “savory meal” as did Esau in Genesis 27.

It is one thing to contend for the faith and to speak out on biblical issues. It is another thing to render unto the political Caesar of the moment that which belongs only to God.

In the end, politics is not likely to be reformed and purified by the endorsement of the ambassadors of Christ. Sadly, these men and women of God run the real risk of being corrupted by a worldly and vicious system and compromising their witness, ministry, and integrity.

As the lady said, “How, as a man of the cloth, can you even be involved with this?”

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Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 8:17am.

I think that I can detect who the traitor was just from the method of your denial of a meltdown!

Now, if you don't believe me I know that I can prove it. And also I can prove it for you!
Anyway why does you need to be so throwin-off on me all of the time? I will pray fopr you enyways.

muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 8:16am.

Unless there is more to the story than even I know, you would likely have the wrong person picked out. I do believe that a post by the person you have in mind--a post that clearly was calculated to both "out" me and defame me--played a role. The whole deal (i.e., the only complaint from my employer) was over a (myopic?) perception of my posts on here, and that perception was almost point-for-point the way this person had characterized me in that strategically placed post.

But I know the actual name of the regular blogger who figured out my identity, took offense at some of my posts, and directly contacted my employer with a complaint and, I believe, some links to my "offending" posts ferreted out of the archives.


Submitted by goal_keeper on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 8:06pm.

Looks like you just did.

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 6:35pm.

And you proved you were right.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


Submitted by goal_keeper on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 8:39pm.

I could use the archives to show you but I don't think that it is appropriate. I am not making light of any-one's misfortune. I know neither muddle nor BPR except what I have read here and on another site. But, in this arena it seems to be OK for someone to make a comment cloaked in satire or sarcasm, several paragraphs long, but it is not OK for me to retort without people coming out of the woodwork to blast even the smallest sentence which has substance.

I have witnessed posters being drawn and quartered by other posters and no one comes to their defense. Maybe that's why I choose to post.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander? Not here.

Submitted by MYTMITE on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 8:52pm.

Stop picking on BPR, Jamie-Mac, and Goal-Keeper and whatever other entities appear. Didn't you read or see Three Faces of Eve? I believe it may be a case of multiple personalities or as it is called today Associative Disorder or such--doesn't Hershel Walker suffer from the same thing?

Oh,wait, could it be that?? In those cases at least one entity could read and write cohesively.

Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 6:28pm.

LOL I see you haven't lost your sense of humor. Smiling


Tug13's picture
Submitted by Tug13 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 6:16pm.

Don't waste your time.


hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 6:34pm.

I know, but if you notice the goalkeeper only answers comments about BPR maybe he's just a fan, go figure. How you doing girl? I hope your test results were good.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


Submitted by goal_keeper on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 8:08pm.

to me even when it's not about you.

hutch866's picture
Submitted by hutch866 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 8:58pm.

No more then you relpy to other people even when it's not about you.

I yam what I yam....Popeye


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 10:10pm.

Is starting to get really creepy. Even the goalkeeper sounds like her. It's kind of like one of those horror shows, that when you kill the monster and chop it into three pieces, you suddenly have three new seperate monsters. Beeper makes $age look like a lightweight when it comes to multiples.

It appears Denise, Sniffles and Beeper might have been banned.

________

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


Submitted by sageadvice on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 11:32am.

Keep looking for the cut and paste!
Sage is no lightweight! And no multiple, whatever that is.

Fyt35's picture
Submitted by Fyt35 on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 8:03am.

I always believed that BPR was a prescription away of being institutionalized. But this is creepy and funny at the same time!


rock78's picture
Submitted by rock78 on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 12:09am.

It wouldn't be a bad idea, IMO. Perhaps one from each side of the isle (i.e., a repub and a dem)....

I've seen this brought up before, but, it seems more appropriate nowadays...

BPR should be PERMABANNED!


sniffles5's picture
Submitted by sniffles5 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 11:56pm.

Miss me this past week? Sticking out tongue I had some laptop issues while out of town (ran over my power cable with my hotel desk chair 1st night out, sliced that sucker cable cleanly in half).

Had to survive on one single battery charge the whole week (not the easiest thing to do).

Imagine this: a whole week without access to porn and the Citizen.

I'm putting in for hardship pay.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 7:13am.

You were noticeably absent. Sticking out tongue

Hope you a good, fun and prosperous time out of week. If there is one thing that will cause me to go postal, it's going to be all of this technology that is supposed to be simplifying my life.

Uhhh... somehow, I just don't see you as the porn type. You try to think too much and you have a severe addiction to blogging. I know the type well.

Welp! Glad you made it back safe and are still around to chit chat... I think. Puzzled

________

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


River's picture
Submitted by River on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 10:36pm.

I've heard that Beaver and Denise were the same person, but I don't know if I believe that or not. They both seem to have vanished at about the same time.

Speaking of vanishing, I'm off to OKC in the AM. See you all around; it's been a lot of fun. Wish me luck in my job hunt!

River


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 9:28am.

Call or email. I'll come find ya!

Kevin "Hack" King


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 10:42pm.

I forgot about Beaver. He is the other one I heard got zapped. Beav and Denise were not the same person.

Best of success in OKC with your job hunt. I'll respond to your e-mail real soon.

________

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


River's picture
Submitted by River on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 2:49pm.

As to kayaking, yes and no. I have been kayaking before, but I'm anything but an expert. I just liked the picture. I HAVE been whitewater rafting a few times. I WILL tell you that you can get kayaks that you sit on top of, or serious kayaks like the one in the picture. The ones you sit on top of are fine for lakes or any slow water, and they are easy to master, but no good for real whitewater. Your idea of renting would be an excellent way to start, as you might find you like one kind over another. If you want to do the real whitewater stuff, you need lessons. Here's a place to start: http://www.whitewatergeorgia.com/

I hope that helps.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:14pm.

Then I wouldn't have sodded the yard that you already sodded.

Smiling

Kevin "Hack" King


River's picture
Submitted by River on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:22pm.

Like I said before, these are the types of conversations that I came here for, and it's good to hear confirmation of what I said, since I am NOT the expert kayaker that the picture would imply. (The picture was symbolic of me paddling my way through the river of life.)


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 11:45am.

That's one of my favorite analogies... "the river of life"

I think that is how I ended up in the south, by not fighting the current and just letting life happen... you know, go with the flow so to speak.

It's always an adventure to see where the current takes us, dodging the rocks and wakes as we travel across the surface of 'the river' but knowing, deep down, that we are paddling in the right direction, even if we can't see the course ahead of us.


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:31pm.

There would be many more rocks Laughing out loud

Kevin "Hack" King


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 2:24pm.

Let's pretend....

Oh the water snakes question. Yes there are. But fear not the snakes, it's those fresh water sharks that have been the problem lately.
________

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


muddle's picture
Submitted by muddle on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 4:08pm.

I've been doing quite a bit of kayaking--particularly now that I seem to have a lot of time on my hands. Smiling

What I wound up with is a sit-on-top style kayak. It's just what it sounds like. Rather than being seated down inside of a cockpit (I bet there is a kayaker term here of which I'm ignorant), the deck is slightly recessed. The boat should come with some heavy duty clip-on seats that allow you to have leverage when paddling.

You mentioned a solo model. I actually picked up a tandem--the "Malibu Two" by Ocean Kayak. It's more versatile, as it can be set up for two (plus a child in between) or for one. (Some tandems do not have this option.)

Ocean Kayak

I LOVE mine and highly recommend exactly this model. But check out their singles. I've had my eye on the "Frenzy," which Dick's Sporting Goods had for a ridiculous $279.00 for a while. It looks like it would be a lot of fun in the surf or even on a bit of river whitewater. I see that they also have "ladies'" kayaks advertised on their website.

These sit-on-tops are probably the most versatile. I take mine out in small surf and have a blast with it. It is also very maneuverable on flat water. And, you can easily fish from it. My buddy has one just like mine, and he hooked a large jack offshore a couple of years ago. He had what the New England fishermen called a "Nantucket Sleigh Ride" in it (which was also a late 60s band).

Our favorite place to paddle (so far) is in the Thousand Islands of Cocoa Beach, Florida. You can paddle in between islands of mangroves so that you are in a tunnel of vegetation. In winter, there are lots of manatees that will surface right next to your boat, as well as a unique species of dolphins (Indian River) and thousands of migratory waterbirds, including white pelicans, great herons, giant storks, etc. It's a great spot accessible only by kayak or canoe. And 99.99999% of tourists have no idea it's there. You can put in at the ramp, and in ten minutes you are out of sight of any other people and are hearing (mainly) the sounds of nature.

We have yet to paddle any of Georgia's outer banks, but are planning a trip around Little Tybee soon.

Oh.... I don't think you would have any problem with water snakes in lakes such as Peachtree, etc.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 11:31am.

Great info I can use.

I'll check out the tandem model so I can get my kids interested too. I think that place across from The Avenue called "The Great Outdoors" might rent kayaks.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 10:06am.

I've never ventured onto one of those little kayaks for various and sundry reasons.

Number one: I'm a poor swimming, but an excellent sinker. So staying afloat ONTOP of the kayak is a definite requirement.

Number two: Doesn't it hurt your back? I used to be able to sit on the floor when I was young, but my lower back could never handle the position very long. Heck I even bought a recumbent bike, which is wonderful, except for the difficulting in making the hills, (no use of one's weight). So do you have to have a good lumbar to do it for very long?

Number three: Where do you plug in the laptop so that you don't miss out any blog responses, emails, IM messages and News? Does you wifi card pick up the internet while the manatees are bumping your boat?

I'm going on a cruise next week, and its going to take everything in me, NOT to sign on to the computers to check in at my office or with the family. I guess an hour out on the ocean would not be THAT hard to do.

But actually you Kayakers are so very selfish. You have no respect for mother nature. I live on Lake Kedron, and while I'm enjoying a cold Yuengling Light, I see those impish kayakers paddling by, disturbing the quiet waters with their wake. ARGH! It ruins a good Yuengling buzz.

If God had intended for men to Kayak, he wouldn't have created the internet. Oh, crap, I forgot, Al Gore created the internet. . . . which means. . . , no I'm not gonna say it. I'll just pop the top off another one.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Sun, 06/08/2008 - 11:27am.

That's the lake I was going to target with a rental kayak. Can I scoot on over in my kayak and grab one of those Yuengling's? (unless there's a drinking and kayaking law)

(I wonder if we are neighbors?)


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 2:00pm.

Grab Muddle, JeffC, Hack, and Git Real and the beer is on me.

You better do it sooner than later, because once Obama becomes president, with Universal Healthcare, all of our own personal rights to eat, drink and be merry, will have to be pre-approved by Party big wigs, and I don't think Jeff's Dad is pulling that much weight anymore to give us permission to act so irresponsibily. So, we better enjoy life before we turn into the USSR circa 1988.

Rich


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 6:03pm.

You know very well that it would be impossible to have a Democrat in the White House and to ban alcohol at the same time.


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 6:21pm.

The first condition I would put on any Universal Healthcare Bill would be the absolute requirement that all of Congress, past and present, must first leave their current providers, and suffer through the very plan that the liberals want main street Americans to endure.

But that ain't gonna happen.

The same applies when we start having sky rocketing taxes to cover this healthcare program, and then, some audit shows that fat people, or smokers, or drinkers are using these resources at an alarmingly high rate. Then talk begins in which "certain" types of behavior will have to be modified. No more eating high cholesterol food, with saturated fats, cigarettes are then completely outlawed, and drinking is taxed so high, that only the liberal elites can afford it.

So, tell me again, how a Democrat in the White House, and both houses of Congress isn't going to take away our rights?


JeffC's picture
Submitted by JeffC on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 7:03pm.

That's not Yuengling you're sipping that's right-wing fringe KoolAde! You guys have spent seven years destroying the Constitution and every right ever granted from Habeas Corpus on down the line. Ban this, ban that, snoop in your mail, search your house without a warrant, spy on your email, listen in on your phone conversations, legislate birth control, there is no end to the list. There has never been a liberal who tried to take away a single one of your rights. On the other hand, y'all have made careers out of attacking fine liberal institutions like the ACLU because y'all can't stand the rest of us exercising our Constitutional rights. We Democrats are the only thing standing between you and total complete regulation of our lives. If you Republicans had your way, everything that was not mandatory would be forbidden!

I'm telling Barry what you said about him.


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 3:34pm.

And for the better.

I believe there are strong 'checks and balances' within our executive and legislative political structure to prevent our personal rights and livelihood to be taken away, although Bush and Company tried very hard to chip away at those checks and balances.

Come on, Hobbs, jump into the Democratic pool-party. The water is just fine!

(how about hosting a pre-election day Yuengling Lake Party? We'll rent those kayaks and come on over. The spouse still doesn't believe there are Republican's here that he may actually LIKE and that enjoy a good beer)


Richard Hobbs's picture
Submitted by Richard Hobbs on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 6:35pm.

Strong "checks" and "balances", yeah, but those have all been eroded by liberal "feel good" Supreme Court justices who find a way to make it happen. Judicial activism has assumed so much more power than they ever were constitutional created to have. And its the liberal activists that are tilting that power to their liberal opinions.

The litany of examples in which the checks and balances have failed us is too long to even discuss, --especially while I'm relaxing after a hard days work. (Side's the tequila is hitting me sort of hard, on an empty stomach.)

Re: Your husband's limited tastes, he might find me to be a bit of a challenge though in liking me, because we don't share any similar hobbies. I don't wear tye dyed shirts, cry while I watch chick flick, nor look forward to art exhibits celebrating the diversity of perversity. But then again, I'm considered rather perverse myself. And diverse, hell, all my friends "live in low places".

Kayak to my shore at any time, but come with an open mind, because like Hannity can Hanitize you, I'm going to Hobknob you to death.

(Literally, I have these big door knobs, (e.g. hobknobs!), I throw from my deck at trespassers who are trying to sneak in from the lake to steal my Yuengling!)


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Mon, 06/09/2008 - 9:45pm.

on an empty stomach that caused you to retch instead.

Maybe you're right about my spouse...I don't think you could keep up, since his hobbies center around physics, astronomy and the geosciences. These darn Georgia Tech grads can leave some folks speechless, however, he turns out an awesome home brew. The last batch was a spiced orange-ginger beer for Christmas. It sounded hideous at first, while the stuff was fermenting in our garage, but it was actually very tasty and perfect for those cold Georgia nights.

We'll still paddle over any time, and I'll prove you wrong about finding common ground.

(btw - that's pretty cool about your hobknobs)


AF A-10's picture
Submitted by AF A-10 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:18pm.

I'm off to spend money I don't have after reading that! How completely COOL! Maybe one day we'll have a bloggers coffee only with beer and kayaks!!

Kevin "Hack" King


River's picture
Submitted by River on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:17pm.

Muddle, thanks for the extra info. It sounds like you've done a lot more kayaking than I have, and I'm glad to hear about you using the sit-on-top type, as it confirms my impression. That's what I used and liked very much, but I was reluctant to recommend it for use in whitewater. Like you, I used mine to paddle out to a small island and back, in light surf. I have never tried whitewater in a kayak, just a 6-person raft.

Mainstream, the sit-on-top type is VERY easy to learn, and as Muddle pointed out, it's relatively cheap, so maybe that's the way for you to start out.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 12:35pm.

keep the faith.

Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


Git Real's picture
Submitted by Git Real on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 2:21pm.

She spotted BPR first. She beat me to the punch.

________

"That man was Griffin Judicial Circuit District Attorney Scott Ballard".

CLICK HERE FOR THE REST OF THE STORY


simpleton's picture
Submitted by simpleton on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 5:02pm.

This game is a lot like Where's Waldo?

Only, if Waldo were twenty feet tall, mad as a hatter and surrounded by flashing neon signs that say, "Look, Waldo is right here!"


Main Stream's picture
Submitted by Main Stream on Fri, 06/06/2008 - 7:37pm.

(the post above)

You're always so good about interpreting what these wackos are trying to say... so, help me with this new person's (Jamie-Mac) post... thanks.


yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 7:11pm.

but I proved my point. Smiling Keep the faith.

Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


Submitted by sageadvice on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 6:52am.

Anytime one mixes religion and politics this is the crap we get.

Just another one of those "back it up" guys. When confused, ask for someone else's opinion!

I don't think he could re-read his own comment either!

God must have existed before the money or we wouldn't have known to put his name on money!

I don't think Jesus carried a purse, or any money. He bummed shelter and food and didn't live long enough for Medicare or insurance of any kind. He made good in Carpentry and lived off his returns of investment in tent making, and some hut development.

yardman5508's picture
Submitted by yardman5508 on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 2:43pm.

Jesus as the independently wealthy developer. Keep the faith.

Even a dead fish can go with the flow.


Submitted by sageadvice on Sat, 06/07/2008 - 4:15pm.

There are those who think they can wander through life without a job, a fortune, a home, a car, or anything, and someone will take care of them.

Ridiculous things like a developer Jesus is a sarcastic way of pointing that out!

All those people who want to do as he did weren't credentialed properly!

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